On the restoration of greatness

Started by Karl Henning, January 30, 2017, 05:16:39 AM

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Where are we, on the road to greatness?

I voted for El Tupé and I feel he is making America great again
2 (5.6%)
I voted for El Tupé and I do not feel he is making America great again
0 (0%)
I am a US citizen but did not vote for El Tupé
17 (47.2%)
I am not a US citizen
17 (47.2%)

Total Members Voted: 33

Voting closed: March 16, 2017, 06:16:39 AM

ahinton

Quote from: Todd on January 31, 2017, 12:09:03 PMYes.
Well, if it does it for you, that's fine - for you; I cannot and therefore do not propose to speak for anyone else.

Zeus

Quote from: Florestan on January 31, 2017, 07:21:00 AM
I see.

In Romania, the Attorney General is proposed by the Minister of Justice and officially nominated by the President but cannot be removed from office before the expiration of his term (3 years and two terms at most).

This reminds me of an incredible episode from the late Yeltsin years in Russia. If I remember correctly, Prosecutor General Sklaratov got on the Yeltsin clan's bad side by revealing some combination of (a) the $150 million or so spent on a Kremilin restoration disappeared without a trace; (b) so did Stalin's office furniture; (c) various members of the Yeltsin clan were getting their very considerable spending money off of credit cards from some Swiss bank; and/or (d) the entire $20 billion or so of Russian foreign exchange reserves were being held by some offshore company in Jersey with unknown shareholders.

Needless to say, the Yeltsin gang wanted to get rid of Sklaratov, but they couldn't by law. At one point Skkaratov disappeared for a few weeks, and everyone assumed he has been murdered. Then after he reappears, Russian TV channels broadcast (Trump-style) kompromat – an hour or so of Sklaratov in bed with two Russian prostitutes.  They broadcast the videotape the first night after midnight, then the second night during prime time!!!

Public reaction was mixed. A lot of people thought Sklaratov's enemies had overplayed their hand. Sklaratov's wife said "so what?"

I was living in Russia at the time, and watching the action unfold via the Moscow Times.  Like a long-running soap opera really.

All this is to say that Trump might be the star of his own little reality TV show in Russia one of these nights!



"There is no progress in art, any more than there is progress in making love. There are simply different ways of doing it." – Emmanuel Radnitzky (Man Ray)

Que

Quote from: Judge Fish on January 31, 2017, 06:42:41 PM

All this is to say that Trump might be the star of his own little reality TV show in Russia one of these nights!

I wouldn't be surprised (at all) if the Russians had sex tapes with Trump, but if they do they can't show them to keep the leverage.

We'll only know for sure when the romance with Putin turns sour....

Q

Que

#63
Quote from: Todd on January 30, 2017, 09:31:14 AM
I am a US citizen but did not vote for El Tupé.  I'm not convinced he will have a major impact on the greatness of the US one way or the other.  Of course, definitions of greatness vary widely.

I think you underestimate the destructive effect of Trump.
Power is more than a strong global economic and military position, but also about international influence.
In both fields, economic and military, Trump is aiming for a withdrawal from the international arena.
This will undermine Western global influence and security and give way to other global players for power grabs. It will also exacerbate local conflicts of the kind we've seen in the Middle East.This loss of power of the West and of its leading nation seems to amount to less greatness...

The EU has already caught on to the fact that since Trump doesn't support the EU (and NATO), that poses a real thread to EU.

On the other hand...you might be right on Trump's relative importance in all of this, in the sense that he is not the cause but just a symptom of a political system that ran of the rails and turned disfunctional years ago. If I my be so bold to pass such a judgment on the American political situation as an outsider... But since Congress isn't even able to make appointments to an important constitutional body as the Supreme Court, such a conclusion is hardly rocket science any more.... ;)

Q

Turner

#64
Quote from: Que on January 31, 2017, 10:28:18 PM
I think you underestimate the destructive effect of Trump.
Power is more than a strong global economic and military position, but also about international influence.
In both fields, economic and military, Trump is aiming for a withdrawal from the international arena.
This will undermine Western global influence and security and give way to other global players for power grabs. It will also exacerbate local conflicts of the kind we've seen in the Middle East.This loss of power of the West and of its leading nation seems to amount to less greatness...

The EU has already caught on to the fact that since Trump doesn't support the EU (and NATO), that poses a real thread to EU.
(...)
Q

and literally so, in a quite extraordinary public announcement from EU´s Donald Tusk. Trump is described as a threat:
http://www.cbsnews.com/news/european-union-donald-tusk-donald-trump-threat-eu-future-highly-unpredictable/

BTW, signs of further softening towards Russia in the Trump administration´s statement on the increased fighting in Avdiivka, Eastern Ukraine, where a big evacuation of civilians is due to take place today, due to shelling; it doesn´t even mention Russia by name. It´s being hailed for its "neutrality" by Russian government newspapers.

Concerning the destructive effect, I think the effectiveness of Trump´s campaign means should not be underestimated either, and that he might even be in the office for 8 years, provided that the US doesn´t suffer a major economical set-back that will hit hard the majority of his voters.
Adding a bit more of a friendly-uncle, domestic image later on would help him, while keeping the polarization/attacking other groups.

GioCar

Till now no "repentance" among Trump's voters, at least in this poll.

::)

Spineur

Quote from: Turner on January 31, 2017, 11:35:24 PM
and literally so, in a quite extraordinary public announcement from EU´s Donald Tusk....
It is indeed quite a shift: Donald Tusk is a Polish citizen.  Poland has been the strongest US ally in Europe since the end of the cold war.  Clearly the friendly attitude toward russia and the questioning of NATO future are changing the perspective in Easter Europe.

Florestan

Quote from: Spineur on February 01, 2017, 12:03:53 AM
It is indeed quite a shift: Donald Tusk is a Polish citizen.  Poland has been the strongest US ally in Europe since the end of the cold war.  Clearly the friendly attitude toward russia and the questioning of NATO future are changing the perspective in Easter Europe.

Well, just yesterday some US troops have been deployed to Poland. I doubt the move was made without Trump's knowledge and approval. Meanwhile, at the NATO anti-missile shield facility in Romania (another staunch and loyal US ally) business goes as usual.

So far, so good.
"Beauty must appeal to the senses, must provide us with immediate enjoyment, must impress us or insinuate itself into us without any effort on our part." - Claude Debussy

kishnevi

Quote from: Florestan on February 01, 2017, 12:19:19 AM
Well, just yesterday some US troops have been deployed to Poland. I doubt the move was made without Trump's knowledge and approval. Meanwhile, at the NATO anti-missile shield facility in Romania (another staunch and loyal US ally) business goes as usual.

So far, so good.

Obama made a number of last minute moves during the final days of his term.  Some of them have already been reversed by Trump, so don't bet too heavily on those troops remaining.  (They might, indeed,  but more because of Gen. Mattis than anyone else.)

kishnevi

Quote from: GioCar on January 31, 2017, 11:54:33 PM
Till now no "repentance" among Trump's voters, at least in this poll.

::)

Only two have voted, so it can not be called a huge sample.

ahinton

Quote from: sanantonio on February 01, 2017, 08:11:42 AM
I am happier than ever with my vote for President Trump.  The repentance needed is entirely from the other side for the atrocious behavior in response to his election and preformance since taking office.
You run a neat line in irony, I'll give you that!

But "preformance"? Which part of him and/or his actions do you consider to have been "preformed"? Just curious...

Karl Henning

A "performance":  the most incisive analysis of the new President yet  0:)
Karl Henning, Ph.D.
Composer & Clarinetist
Boston MA
http://www.karlhenning.com/
[Matisse] was interested neither in fending off opposition,
nor in competing for the favor of wayward friends.
His only competition was with himself. — Françoise Gilot

Todd

#72
Quote from: Que on January 31, 2017, 10:28:18 PMI think you underestimate the destructive effect of Trump.


Perhaps, but . . .


Quote from: Que on January 31, 2017, 10:28:18 PMThis will undermine Western global influence and security and give way to other global players for power grabs. It will also exacerbate local conflicts of the kind we've seen in the Middle East.  This loss of power of the West and of its leading nation seems to amount to less greatness...


. . . assuming this is true, so what?  The west is aging, it is shrinking as a proportion of the world population, and it will lose influence relative to other parts of the world no matter what policies are pursued.  It will take time, no matter what, as well.  The US has shouldered a disproportionate security burden for decades, though the population generally took that on gladly, at least some of the time.  NATO is reliant on the US to an embarrassing degree, though that is partly by design.  I understand the rationale for its existence, but I disagree with that rationale.  I see NATO as a relic, and one sorely in need of major revamping, if not complete dismantlement.  If Europeans are as concerned about it as they claim, they can take on a larger role.  Mostly I see rich Europeans whining about America not doing enough, or doing too much, and then when pressed to up their input, balking.  I've written this for years, and Trump is just the wrong messenger for the sort of right message.  It should certainly be more comprehensive and nuanced.

But there's something even larger in my "so what" question.  Why is power and greatness for the west so important?  To be honest, worries about this smack of cultural chauvinism.  That Trump prattles on about greatness does not concern me at all.  That other people believe in it at all does, sort of.  I hold no illusions about how amoral and violent international relations can be, nor do I advocate American isolationism, the intellectually dishonest label put on almost anyone who questions the existing order, but I have long been unconvinced about the ongoing importance of the west as it is portrayed.  Perhaps it will be more important to Europeans than Americans in the long run since Europe, as a whole, is currently experiencing, and will continue to experience, more acute demographic shifts and slower economic growth.  The same things will happen to the US, though at lower rates, but the US can look to the west, but also the east, the south, and so on.  Maybe the US loses influence, but again, ultimately, so what?  Starting next decade, and for many decades after that, the US will remain the second largest national economy, and will possess immense military might, so even if countries don't like the US because we are not nice does not mean they will be able to ignore the US.  (This assumes no catastrophic military defeat in a global war, which is not impossible, of course.)  And if countries choose to remain dependent on the US for security, they will have no choice.  If the rosiest economic and demographic scenarios for the east come true, or even more than three-quarters true, then China and India will be the giants at the end of this century and will displace the west in terms of influence.  Perhaps if the US devotes a little less to international security - let's say we cut our supercarrier fleet from 10 to 7 or 8, and our amphibious assault ship count down to 4-5, and our surface ship count by an additional 10 or 20 or 30, and our nuclear arsenal to global deterrence levels only, and our troop count commensurately - maybe the US can stop spending close to a trillion a year on the military (top line DOD budget figures are misleading; DOE, VA, special appropriations, interest, and various programs in almost all other agencies must also be factored in), and some of that can be redeployed to more useful purposes while still retaining a good degree of security for the US.  Swords to plowshares, and all that.  Maybe the existing order isn't all it's cracked up to be.  But I know that's not how things will be, and the US will lurch from one military action to another, sometimes at Europe's behest (see Libya), and no matter what happens, it will always be America's fault.  Trump didn't cause that, Trump can't change that, Trump won't change that.
The universe is change; life is opinion. - Marcus Aurelius, Meditations

People would rather believe than know - E.O. Wilson

Propaganda death ensemble - Tom Araya