Author Topic: Bruckner's Abbey  (Read 494149 times)

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Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3480 on: June 14, 2020, 04:28:46 AM »
Helgoland comparison. From youtube.

Listen to the first minute under Barenboim in Berlin (11 mins):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrU0P-sKyIM


Breathless.

.........................

Then listen to Barenboim’s earlier take in Chicago (13:50):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvT1tG2zKgw


More breadth, more power.
..........................

Then listen to Wyn Morris in the same extract (15 mins):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CfWAfmRHZw


Breathtaking. The chorus is more imposing in sound, with sharper enunciation, the brass more cutting. You can see the rolling waves of the text:

For those who don't fancy paying inflated prices - Klassic Haus have coupled the Morris version of Helgoland with a performance of Symphony 6 here;

http://klassichaus.us/Bruckner%3A-Symphony-No--6---Bongartz-LGO.php



it sounds very well in the 320 kps download version I have.....

Offline André

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3481 on: June 14, 2020, 07:47:48 AM »
This is all the more interesting since Bongartz’ 6th is a top choice. Good find !

Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3482 on: June 20, 2020, 11:33:49 AM »
For those who don't fancy paying inflated prices - Klassic Haus have coupled the Morris version of Helgoland with a performance of Symphony 6 here;

http://klassichaus.us/Bruckner%3A-Symphony-No--6---Bongartz-LGO.php



it sounds very well in the 320 kps download version I have.....

Thanks for that. I just downloaded it. Excited to hear both the Morris Helgoland and the Bongartz 6th.

Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3483 on: June 20, 2020, 12:57:41 PM »
@André, you are so right, my friend, about this Morris/Symphonica recording. Outstanding. He makes this minor work of Bruckner's sound like seriously important music, and I think the slower tempo is a big part of that. Yet it doesn't sound slow at all. It has a big, fast momentum to it. It's going to be weird going back to the Barenboim now, as I can't imagine this working much faster than here.

Beyond Barenboim and Morris, has anyone else even recorded Helgoland?

Offline Mahlerian

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3484 on: June 20, 2020, 03:23:21 PM »
@André, you are so right, my friend, about this Morris/Symphonica recording. Outstanding. He makes this minor work of Bruckner's sound like seriously important music, and I think the slower tempo is a big part of that. Yet it doesn't sound slow at all. It has a big, fast momentum to it. It's going to be weird going back to the Barenboim now, as I can't imagine this working much faster than here.

Beyond Barenboim and Morris, has anyone else even recorded Helgoland?

This is the discography I could find (linked to on Abruckner.com):

http://www.abruckner.com/vocal_instrumental_music/php/index.php@pag=228.htm
"l do not consider my music as atonal, but rather as non-tonal. I feel the unity of all keys. Atonal music by modern composers admits of no key at all, no feeling of any definite center." - Arnold Schoenberg

Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3485 on: June 20, 2020, 03:52:43 PM »
This is the discography I could find (linked to on Abruckner.com):

http://www.abruckner.com/vocal_instrumental_music/php/index.php@pag=228.htm

Thanks. Interesting that the Morris is far and away the slowest. It sounds quite natural at that pace.

Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3486 on: June 21, 2020, 04:59:18 AM »
Wow, the Bongartz/Leipzig 6th is incredible!! This is easily one of the greatest Bruckner recordings I've ever heard... I love the crushing brass and the razor sharp strings of the first movement, and the soft, moving lyricism of the slow movement. I never even really liked this symphony all that much, but Bongartz has shown me the light!

Would anyone care to recommend me more Bruckner recordings in this vein? I must hear more... Furthermore, are there any other Bruckner recordings in the Klassic Haus catalog worthy of a listen? I'm thoroughly impressed with the sound...:

http://klassichaus.us/Bruckner%3A-Select-Recordings.php

Offline André

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3487 on: June 21, 2020, 05:54:24 PM »
Glad you enjoyed both recordings, Vers la flamme! True, after Morris it’s hard to settle for a fast Helgoland. The opening choir and orchestra salvo has the theme of the rolling waves going from crest to hollow in thrilling fashion. If played fast the physical effect of plunging and cresting is severely diminished.

Another great 6th is Keilberth’s with the BP. Glorious brass and strings. More imposing if less passionate than Bongartz. Both are mandatory listening IMO.

Offline Daverz

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3488 on: June 21, 2020, 11:57:00 PM »
I'm late to this Bongartz party.  Is it the same as the recording in this box?

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7991899--gewandhausorchester-leipzig-legendary-masterworks-recordings
https://www.amazon.com/Leipzig-Gewandhaus-Orchestra-Masterworks-Recordings/dp/B003UBOU4I



There are some other interesting things in the box, like a Konwitschny Scotch Symphony (haha) and a Markevitch Pictures.  And how can one not be curious about East German Gershwin?
« Last Edit: June 21, 2020, 11:58:36 PM by Daverz »

Offline André

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3489 on: June 22, 2020, 04:29:09 AM »
Yes, it’s the same version. In East Germany, after the death of Konwitschny, the top recording spots were held by Suitner, Kegel and Masur. Bongartz and Rögner didn’t have the same exposure despite their superb music making. One of my fave Mahler 6 is by Bongartz.

Offline Roasted Swan

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3490 on: June 22, 2020, 10:00:09 AM »
I'm late to this Bongartz party.  Is it the same as the recording in this box?

https://www.prestomusic.com/classical/products/7991899--gewandhausorchester-leipzig-legendary-masterworks-recordings
https://www.amazon.com/Leipzig-Gewandhaus-Orchestra-Masterworks-Recordings/dp/B003UBOU4I



There are some other interesting things in the box, like a Konwitschny Scotch Symphony (haha) and a Markevitch Pictures.  And how can one not be curious about East German Gershwin?

From memory - East German Gershwin is very good indeed!  I've collected all kinds of repertoire on the old Berlin Classics label and they are all very fine indeed.  I love the sound of the East German orchestras which I guess was somehow 'preserved' post War by little interaction with the West.  Also, the players would be drawn from a very similar pool of playing/technique so there is a very coherent sound.

Offline Daverz

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3491 on: June 22, 2020, 02:02:37 PM »
From memory - East German Gershwin is very good indeed!  I've collected all kinds of repertoire on the old Berlin Classics label and they are all very fine indeed.  I love the sound of the East German orchestras which I guess was somehow 'preserved' post War by little interaction with the West.  Also, the players would be drawn from a very similar pool of playing/technique so there is a very coherent sound.

On the other, I also enjoy the sometimes rather rough playing of the Leipzig Radio Orchestra in the exciting Bruckner recordings that Kegel did. 

Offline André

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3492 on: July 10, 2020, 03:38:45 PM »

Direct to disc LP recording of the 7th, Haitink’s last appearance with the BP. I recommend watching this video. It’s about the object itself, not the performance. ABruckner.com sells it at the special price of 195$ US  :o.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zpj1ucFMf34&feature=youtu.be

Offline Mirror Image

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3493 on: July 10, 2020, 04:28:57 PM »
Direct to disc LP recording of the 7th, Haitink’s last appearance with the BP. I recommend watching this video. It’s about the object itself, not the performance. ABruckner.com sells it at the special price of 195$ US  :o.


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zpj1ucFMf34&feature=youtu.be


Ouch! :-\ That’s quite a hefty price tag for one performance.
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Offline Cato

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey: Your Most Recent Obsession
« Reply #3494 on: October 04, 2020, 05:22:40 AM »
Via a discussion elsewhere: do you "obsess" over any of the symphonies?  i.e.  Do you find yourself listening to a specific symphony (or another work, e.g. Os Iusti ) again and again?

I will admit that I have done this throughout the decades.  ;)

For many years, I will also admit that the Fifth Symphony was not necessarily a first choice.  However, about twenty years ago I heard it in Cleveland with Christoph von Dohnanyi conducting, and I was marveling at why I had ranked the symphony lower!

Right now, I have spent several days listening to it, the legendary Eugen Jochum, Concertgebouw performance from the 1980's.

« Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 09:40:19 AM by Cato »
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Online MusicTurner

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey: Your Most Recent Obsession
« Reply #3495 on: October 04, 2020, 11:46:09 AM »
Via a discussion elsewhere: do you "obsess" over any of the symphonies?  i.e.  Do you find yourself listening to a specific symphony (or another work, e.g. Os Iusti ) again and again?

I will admit that I have done this throughout the decades.  ;)

... ... ...

Yes, especially regarding the 9th (at first, mainly Jochum on DG), the 8th (afterwards, for many years, especially Haitinks first DDD recording), and then the 4th ... (several recordings), nowadays the symphonies are more equal to me. But actually, to me, the 9th is the most modern sounding and perhaps complex of the bunch.
« Last Edit: October 04, 2020, 12:55:57 PM by MusicTurner »

Offline Cato

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey: Your Most Recent Obsession
« Reply #3496 on: October 04, 2020, 12:55:05 PM »
Yes, especially regarding the 9th (at first, especially Jochum on DG), the 8th (afterwards, for many years, especially Haitinks first DDD recording), and then the 4th ... (several recordings), nowadays the symphonies are more equal to me. But actually, to me, the 9th is the most modern sounding and perhaps complex of the bunch.

True, although the 8th has some very curious pages, especially in the First Movement and the Scherzo. 

And yes again to Jochum's Ninth on DGG!  I am also partial to Simon Rattle's Ninth with the completed Finale.
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Offline Daverz

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey: Your Most Recent Obsession
« Reply #3497 on: October 04, 2020, 01:27:15 PM »
Via a discussion elsewhere: do you "obsess" over any of the symphonies?  i.e.  Do you find yourself listening to a specific symphony (or another work, e.g. Os Iusti ) again and again?

I will admit that I have done this throughout the decades.  ;)

For many years, I will also admit that the Fifth Symphony was not necessarily a first choice.  However, about twenty years ago I heard it in Cleveland with Christoph von Dohnanyi conducting, and I was marveling at why I had ranked the symphony lower!

Right now, I have spent several days listening to it, the legendary Eugen Jochum, Concertgebouw performance from the 1980's.

You probably know that Dohnanyi recorded the 5th in Cleveland for Decca, a fantastic performance:


Offline Cato

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey: Your Most Recent Obsession
« Reply #3498 on: October 04, 2020, 03:03:37 PM »
You probably know that Dohnanyi recorded the 5th in Cleveland for Decca, a fantastic performance:




Yes!  Fantastic performance indeed!  Possibly recorded around the time when I attended that concert.

I believe the opener was the Penderecki Viola Concerto, which did not leave much of an impression.   But, as I mentioned above, after listening to that performance in the second half of the concert, the Fifth Symphony rose greatly in my estimation!
"Meet Miss Ruth Sherwood, from Columbus, Ohio, the Middle of the Universe!"

- Brian Aherne introducing Rosalind Russell in  My Sister Eileen (1942)