Author Topic: Bruckner's Abbey  (Read 469580 times)

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Offline Archaic Torso of Apollo

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3460 on: May 10, 2020, 08:42:06 AM »
I spent the morning listening to the Klemperer/Philharmonia 7th. This was a good way to spend the morning, because I think this performance is near-ideal. Klemp really does balance the symphony well. The timing of the 1st mvt. is 19:48, not fast really, but it flows very nicely. The finale has more weight, and its coda actually sounds like an evocation of the 1st mvt. coda, which I think is how it's supposed to sound. Plus, like most Philharmonia recordings of that vintage, it just sounds gorgeous throughout.

This doesn't seem to get as much love as Klemp's 6th with the same forces, but I think it's just as good.
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Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3461 on: May 21, 2020, 03:52:36 PM »
Slowly but surely I'm getting more into the music of Anton Bruckner. Mostly it's his symphonies that capture my interest lately; the most interesting of the bunch to me are 3, 4, 5, 7 & 9, though I consider all 9 to be great. I have frequently heard the criticism leveled against Bruckner that he is inconsistent, but I actually disagree and find him to be extremely consistent; if you like one symphony, you'll probably like them all.

I'm looking to get more into his non-symphonic music. In this realm it seems he is most known for his sacred music, though he did leave behind several chamber works (any Lieder? music for a solo instrument?—I know he didn't leave behind much organ music despite his great stature in his lifetime as an organist; anything else?). I have Jochum on DG for most of the sacred works on 2 CDs, the 3 Masses on one & the Te Deum, motets & Psalm 150 on another. Both are very good, though I owe it to myself to spend more time with the masses.

Is anyone here a fan of the String Quintet?

Offline Dowder

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3462 on: May 21, 2020, 08:16:46 PM »
His was brilliant but bloated. Just like 70’s Elvis.
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Offline Jo498

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3463 on: May 21, 2020, 11:01:11 PM »
I like the string quintet. It is symphonic in scale but not quite as sprawling as some of the symphonies. It was written between the 6h and 7th, I think, so it is a mature piece (unlike a string quartet that was a student piece and only premiered in the 1950s or so).
I'ts been a while that I listened to the choral music. The best piece is probably the "Te Deum" but the masses etc. are all worthwhile. The most original one is the second one in e minor with only wind/brass instead of orchestra and a kind of romanticized Palestrina style for the choir.
(I have "Helgoland" on disc but not sure if I ever listened to it, I have no recollection.)

There are recordings of (early?) piano music but I have never heard any


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Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3464 on: May 22, 2020, 01:33:00 AM »
^Fascinating. I'll definitely be exploring that piano music to see if anything of worth is buried in it. And most definitely going to be tracking down the quintet.

Offline Cato

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3465 on: May 22, 2020, 01:56:03 AM »
Slowly but surely I'm getting more into the music of Anton Bruckner. Mostly it's his symphonies that capture my interest lately; the most interesting of the bunch to me are 3, 4, 5, 7 & 9, though I consider all 9 to be great. I have frequently heard the criticism leveled against Bruckner that he is inconsistent, but I actually disagree and find him to be extremely consistent; if you like one symphony, you'll probably like them all.

I'm looking to get more into his non-symphonic music. In this realm it seems he is most known for his sacred music, though he did leave behind several chamber works (any Lieder? music for a solo instrument?—I know he didn't leave behind much organ music despite his great stature in his lifetime as an organist; anything else?). I have Jochum on DG for most of the sacred works on 2 CDs, the 3 Masses on one & the Te Deum, motets & Psalm 150 on another. Both are very good, though I owe it to myself to spend more time with the masses.

Is anyone here a fan of the String Quintet?


I have never understood the "inconsistent" charge: each symphony  shows movement into new territory, and yet maintains a style which is very consistent.

Yes, it is most curious that he did not compose more - much more - for the organ.  Yet I believe the symphony orchestra was his church organ: scholars have remarked upon Bruckner's orchestration and how it resembles the organ's registration.

The String Quintet is excellent: some have orchestrated it for a string orchestra:

<a href="https://www.youtube.com/v/1i8JdhN1EsA" target="_blank" rel="noopener noreferrer" class="bbc_link bbc_flash_disabled new_win">https://www.youtube.com/v/1i8JdhN1EsA</a>
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Offline André

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3466 on: May 22, 2020, 04:53:36 AM »
I like the string quintet. It is symphonic in scale but not quite as sprawling as some of the symphonies. It was written between the 6h and 7th, I think, so it is a mature piece (unlike a string quartet that was a student piece and only premiered in the 1950s or so).
I'ts been a while that I listened to the choral music. The best piece is probably the "Te Deum" but the masses etc. are all worthwhile. The most original one is the second one in e minor with only wind/brass instead of orchestra and a kind of romanticized Palestrina style for the choir.
(I have "Helgoland" on disc but not sure if I ever listened to it, I have no recollection.)

There are recordings of (early?) piano music but I have never heard any



Frankly, if you don’t recall it, it’s because you probably didn’t hear it.  ;)

Helgoland is Bruckner’s last complete work and it packs enormous punch. I’ve heard a few versions and I find it’s one of the rare instances where one interpreter clearly grabs the work and runs away with it, leaving others trailing far behind:



Morris is sweeping and engulfing, achieving infinite grandeur at the peroration.


Edit: the pic above represents the coupled work, Wagner’s Love Feast of the Apostles. Here’s what Helgoland is actually about:



« Last Edit: May 22, 2020, 05:09:15 AM by André »

Offline Jo498

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3467 on: May 22, 2020, 05:45:47 AM »
I know what Helgoland is, although I have not been there (it is a somewhat popular day cruise from several north sea coast tourist locations). My recording is Barenboim/DG as filler for the "Nullte".
Struck by the sounds before the sun,
I knew the night had gone.
The morning breeze like a bugle blew
Against the drums of dawn.
(Bob Dylan)

Offline André

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3468 on: May 22, 2020, 07:58:27 AM »
I’m sure you know what it is, but I suspect it’s not the case with many. ;) I wanted to show the rough sea and the craggy cliffs depicted in the text. I couldn’t find one with the invading Roman fleet, though  :D.

Offline vers la flamme

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3469 on: May 23, 2020, 05:33:34 AM »
Helgoland is awesome. I have the Barenboim/Berlin Philharmonic recording, though that Wyn Morris looks intriguing. I've never heard of that Wagner piece.

Offline André

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3470 on: May 23, 2020, 11:47:51 AM »
Helgoland is awesome. I have the Barenboim/Berlin Philharmonic recording, though that Wyn Morris looks intriguing. I've never heard of that Wagner piece.

Both Barenboim versions (Chicago and Berlin) as well as the one On Profil (can’t remember the conductor’s name) take it too fast. The engulfing opening waves of sound are much more awe inspiring under Morris. Bruckner’s depiction of the mighty waves make much more effect when taken at this more imposing pace. It’s thrilling no end.

The Wagner is a curious but very rewarding work. It depicts the day of Pentecost. The first 25 minutes are capella singing from the choir. Then, when the Holy Ghost appears, the orchestra ushers in. It all ends in a blaze of glory. Unusual fare, but musically very rewarding. Here too Morris is slower than the competition (Boulez, of all people!). He takes about 34 minutes to Boulez’ 26.

Offline André

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3471 on: May 23, 2020, 12:14:30 PM »
Helgoland comparison. From youtube.

Listen to the first minute under Barenboim in Berlin (11 mins):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OrU0P-sKyIM


Breathless.

.........................

Then listen to Barenboim’s earlier take in Chicago (13:50):

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZvT1tG2zKgw


More breadth, more power.
..........................

Then listen to Wyn Morris in the same extract (15 mins):


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7CfWAfmRHZw


Breathtaking. The chorus is more imposing in sound, with sharper enunciation, the brass more cutting. You can see the rolling waves of the text:

Quote

On the North Sea's most distant horizon
Ships appear that resemble clouds;
In billowy waves with tension on the sail
The Romans approach the Saxons' isle



« Last Edit: May 23, 2020, 12:16:53 PM by André »

Offline Sergeant Rock

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Re: Bruckner's Abbey
« Reply #3472 on: Today at 05:03:40 AM »
Helgoland comparison. From youtube.

I have both Barenboim and Morris. I agree with your conclusions in this comparison. I have a taste for broader tempos in music depicting the sea (e.g., Scheherazade and La Mer where I think Celi rules the waves  ;) ) so my preference for Morris is almost a preordained given.

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