Bruckner's Abbey

[Cato]

In March of next year, Die Wiener Philharmoniker will be in Berkeley, California.

They're scheduled to preform Bruckner's Eighth, and l intend to be there.

WOW!  Thanks for the update: I will inform my "California brother"!

[Cato]

Raw—I definitely agree with that. The brass is super sharp, it could cut glass. I'm reminded of another East German Bruckner recording that I really like: Heinz Bongartz in Leipzig performing the 6th. Jochum does Bruckner way differently than the conductors I'm used to listening to. It's not that it's extremely erratic, far from it, but his tempi are definitely more volatile than the Brucknerians I usually go for, which would include Daniel Barenboim, Georg Tintner and Günter Wand. Puts a different spin on the music, that I'm not quite used to yet.

I think Bruckner gives conductors a good amount of freedom: his scores are not particularly full of "micromanagement," so to speak.

I started with Jochum, and probably biased but he's still my favourite Bruckner conductor. Raw, intense, spontaneous. The 5th is a great example, but even more so is the Dresden 9th.

You are in Saint Eugen's club!   0:)        Certainly I have enjoyed Jochum's performances since the 1960's, when they were first coming out on DGG!

Speaking of the Fifth Symphony, someone has placed his last performance of that work from the mid-1980's on YouTube.

There is no sign of this performance being any kind of valedictory one:

This live recording captures Jochum's penultimate concert, and his final appearance with the Concertgebouw, just a few months before his death in 1987. The audience apparently applauded so enthusiastically that Jochum and the orchestra encored the finale.

https://www.youtube.com/v/eFFnjWW8jwo

[vers la flamme]

I started with Jochum, and probably biased but he's still my favourite Bruckner conductor. Raw, intense, spontaneous. The 5th is a great example, but even more so is the Dresden 9th.

Certainly Jochum is astonishingly good with the 9th in Dresden. I have a bunch of Bruckner 9ths but this one does stand out on first listen.

[calyptorhynchus]

I think Bruckner gives conductors a good amount of freedom: his scores are not particularly full of "micromanagement," so to speak.

Which to me means that unless tempo changes are indicated they shouldn't be enacted. Obviously it's not possible to conduct a long symphonic movement at an inhumanely steady tempo, but it is easy to avoid slamming the brakes on and then later flooring the pedal, as some conductors do (many times over).

[Spotted Horses]

I tend to find Jochum somewhat overdoes it in Bruckner, to my taste anyway. I think Karajan was superb in many of the symphonies, particularly No 4 (especially EMI), 6, 7, 8. In generally I tend to enjoy the conductors that don't double down on Bruckner's idiosyncrasies (Haitink/Concertgebouw, Chailly). I have gotten the Vengazo and am curious to hear what he does with it, and I also have the Maazel/Bayerichen Rundfunks set and have yet to listen.

[vers la flamme]

I tend to find Jochum somewhat overdoes it in Bruckner, to my taste anyway. I think Karajan was superb in many of the symphonies, particularly No 4 (especially EMI), 6, 7, 8. In generally I tend to enjoy the conductors that don't double down on Bruckner's idiosyncrasies (Haitink/Concertgebouw, Chailly). I have gotten the Vengazo and am curious to hear what he does with it, and I also have the Maazel/Bayerichen Rundfunks set and have yet to listen.

I have that Karajan EMI 4th, I'll have to revisit soon. Karajan seems to take a "meditative" approach to Bruckner which seems to complement his habit of conducting with his eyes closed I also have 7 and 8 with Vienna, but the sound kind of puts me off. I have early, non-remastered issues of them and I remember them sounding kind of harsh. But maybe I'm remembering that incorrectly.

[Spotted Horses]

I have that Karajan EMI 4th, I'll have to revisit soon. Karajan seems to take a "meditative" approach to Bruckner which seems to complement his habit of conducting with his eyes closed I also have 7 and 8 with Vienna, but the sound kind of puts me off. I have early, non-remastered issues of them and I remember them sounding kind of harsh. But maybe I'm remembering that incorrectly.

I wouldn't be surprised if the early releases of those Karajan/WPO Bruckner recordings had "digital glare." They are also used as the soundtrack for the Sony videos, and I seem to recall reading that Sony had gone back to the Wiener Grossenmusikvereign and recorded a playback of the recording to add reverberation that was absent in the original recording. (Maybe memory playing tricks).

It is bizarre the Karajan was recording Bruckner for EMI and DG almost simultaneously in the 70's (the recordings of the 4th and 7th were only a few years apart). I have a slight preference for EMI because I think the engineering was better.

[vers la flamme]

I wouldn't be surprised if the early releases of those Karajan/WPO Bruckner recordings had "digital glare." They are also used as the soundtrack for the Sony videos, and I seem to recall reading that Sony had gone back to the Wiener Grossenmusikvereign and recorded a playback of the recording to add reverberation that was absent in the original recording. (Maybe memory playing tricks).

It is bizarre the Karajan was recording Bruckner for EMI and DG almost simultaneously in the 70's (the recordings of the 4th and 7th were only a few years apart). I have a slight preference for EMI because I think the engineering was better.

Not too much Karajan Bruckner on EMI, is there? I only know of the 4th and 7th. Not sure why he redid them at all, to be honest. (Have not heard any of the DG/Berlin Karajan Bruckner stuff.)

[MusicTurner]

The 8th too, two recordings 1944 (incomplete, but partly stereo!) & 1957. But 4 + 7 most impressive, IMHO.

[Cato]

Which to me means that unless tempo changes are indicated they shouldn't be enacted. Obviously it's not possible to conduct a long symphonic movement at an inhumanely steady tempo, but it is easy to avoid slamming the brakes on and then later flooring the pedal, as some conductors do (many times over).

By Hans Hubert-Schoenzeler in his 1970 book Bruckner (p. 181)

...By contrast (with Klemperer) Eugen Jochum allows himself infinite freedom (with the score), especially in matters of tempo, and yet, his readings are in the truest spirit of Bruckner...he must certainly be regarded as one of the greatest Bruckner conductors alive...

To be sure, I recall another Bruckner expert from those days (I cannot find the reference right now) who was fine with Jochum's readings in general...with one great exception!

He thought that the DGG performance of the Fifth Symphony was spoiled by Jochum "halving the tempo" for the great finale of the Fourth Movement.  It was his opinion that, if anything, the speed should be increased, not slowed down by half!

To be sure, the brakes are slammed on quite a bit in that performance, and I do not believe that Jochum does that in subsequent recordings.

[vers la flamme]

The 8th too, two recordings 1944 (incomplete, but partly stereo!) & 1957. But 4 + 7 most impressive, IMHO.

Stereo (even "partly") from 1944? HOW?

[MusicTurner]

Stereo (even "partly") from 1944? HOW?

Yeah, the German recording studio did an experimental 'two channel' stereo recording of the Finale. This even in September 1944 ...

[Daverz]

Stereo (even "partly") from 1944? HOW?

I transferred this LP to FLAC for a friend.

[Cato]

I transferred this LP to FLAC for a friend.

Leopold Stokowski and Walt Disney recorded a stereo soundtrack for Fantasia (1940):

...Thanks to Disney and Stokowski's experimental spirit, the engineering prowess of Bell Laboratories and RCA, and to Disney's great expense, Fantasia brought stereo sound to the masses. Recorded onto film and played back through a proprietary multi-channel system dubbed Fantasound, Fantasia presented not just a visual but an aural marvel to those lucky enough to catch its 1940 release.

It turned out to be a flash, with the film's stereo presentation being put on pause as World War II raged. But the initial Fantasia roadshow—which took over theaters in 13 cities, including the initial showing at New York City's Broadway Theatre on November 13, 1940—introduced the stereo future to commercial audiences....

See:

https://reverb.com/news/fantasia-and-the-birth-of-stereo-recording

[LKB]

Not too much Karajan Bruckner on EMI, is there? I only know of the 4th and 7th. Not sure why he redid them at all, to be honest. (Have not heard any of the DG/Berlin Karajan Bruckner stuff.)

I owned HvK's EMI recordings of Symphonies 4 and 7 some years ago. I liked the Seventh more, but still prefer his analog DG version.

The EMI Fourth was frustrating for me. A great performance right up to the closing bars, where the principal trumpet apparently decided that he needed to play as loudly as possible, a glaring, ruinous distraction at the very end of the work.

So l'll stick with the Böhm/VPO 1973 Decca recording, which is practically perfect in every way.

That being said, HvK is generally still my preference for Bruckner, with Haitink a very close second.

[vers la flamme]

So l'll stick with the Böhm/VPO 1973 Decca recording, which is practically perfect in every way.

Agreed, that's a very good one.

[Cato]

I owned HvK's EMI recordings of Symphonies 4 and 7 some years ago. I liked the Seventh more, but still prefer his analog DG version.

That being said, HvK is generally still my preference for Bruckner, with Haitink a very close second.

Speaking of Herbie von Karajan    this recording of the FIRST SYMPHONY, which seems not to receive enough love, has always intrigued me:


https://www.youtube.com/v/l1i0jgP0XB4

[Cato]

Speaking of Herbie von Karajan    this recording of the FIRST SYMPHONY, which seems not to receive enough love, has always intrigued me:


https://www.youtube.com/v/l1i0jgP0XB4

Some of the YouTube comments are most interesting:

"This powerful symphony erases the haze of the mind ."

"The opening theme brings to mind the journey of man, his steps in the route of life, with his pains, his intimate passions, and the faith in the divine providence expressed by the tutti- fullness of the orchestra, but also the intimate and ecstatic moments in the long path of earthly existence. I'm over 60 and I've been listening to Bruckner since I was only 18. Danke schon Meister Bruckner."

"18:54"

(My emphasis above.)

[vers la flamme]

^The 1st is one of my favorite Bruckner symphonies. I'll have to give that recording a listen.

[Roasted Swan]

I owned HvK's EMI recordings of Symphonies 4 and 7 some years ago. I liked the Seventh more, but still prefer his analog DG version.

The EMI Fourth was frustrating for me. A great performance right up to the closing bars, where the principal trumpet apparently decided that he needed to play as loudly as possible, a glaring, ruinous distraction at the very end of the work.

So l'll stick with the Böhm/VPO 1973 Decca recording, which is practically perfect in every way.

That being said, HvK is generally still my preference for Bruckner, with Haitink a very close second.

Prompted by your comment I listened to the end of that performance which I have had for ages but couldn't say was given a frequent spin(!)  You're quite right - how very odd.  There's this image of HvK as the ultimate controller of texture and tone and blended orchestral balance.  I wonder why he 'allowed' this?  The much more interesting horn parts are obliterated......