Bruckner's Abbey

[Brahmsian]

Who listens to what the insane Schumann wrote? Interesting as a musical footnote maybe, but not as the work of a world respected composer.

In any case, it's a nice compliment to Bruckner's genius.

What was considered 'insane' back in Schumann's day is probably not the case today.  I'm probably more 'insane' than Schumann ever was.

[eyeresist]

Have you had angelic and demonic visions?

[Lilas Pastia]

Syphilis induced. Don't forget syphilis induced.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Syphilis induced. Don't forget syphilis induced.

Indeed.

[jlaurson]

Syphilis induced. Don't forget syphilis induced.

You suffer from Syphilis? My condolences.
Unless you refer to Schumann, in which case that is a common, but highly speculative assumption.
Unless you mix him up with Schubert, in which case it's a fact.
Now more Bruckner please!

[Lilas Pastia]

Yes, major general!

[jlaurson]

Yes, major general!

Modern major general, please!

OK... something Bruckner...  random, if necessary:

Has anyone who has listened to a couple of the O.d.l.Suisse-Janowski  or Salzburg-Bolton Bruckner releases convinced of either cycle?

I find especially the Janowski  so far a string of pretty duds.

[Mirror Image]

Allow me to stop by this thread and say:



Happy Birthday, Anton!!!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

You're right!


Seconded.

[Lilas Pastia]

Hi Johan!!  .

Jens: so far the Bolton Salzburg  I've heard are 5 and 7, and from Janowski the 8th and 9th. What these two have in common is a slightly leaner orchestra (esp. Bolton). I think they also share a no-nonsense approach to tempi and a refusal to milk the music of all its dramatic juices. Janowski comes across as more convincing, and probably represents what a good pre-1950 orchestra might have sounded like size-wise (that is, about 10-20% less strings).

I found a lot of freshness in the Bolton 5th, even though that is not a quality I would have been looking for in that work. The 7th on the other hand has a long tradition of lean, tense and volatile readings (Gielen for example). It works quite well for me. Bolton is slower than most and, coupled with the broad tempi, I find it wanting in weight and low on the majesty vs. strife tension inherent to in the work.

Janowski is more to my liking. But so far I've only given them one hearing. More exposure will have to wait until I'm finished with the 20+ versions of 8 and 9 waiting on my shelves 

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Hi Johan!!

Hi André! All's well here. At your end too, I hope. Keep them Bruckner posts coming!

[Mirror Image]

I've been reading a good bit about the 6th, one of the more underrated symphonies of Bruckner's symphonic output, and I still can't understand it's neglect. What do the fellow Brucknerians here think of this symphony? Why do you think it tends to get overlooked by 4, 5, 7, 8, and 9?

[eyeresist]

6 is supposedly the difficult one, though measuring relative difficulty in Bruckner's symphonies would itself surely be a tasker! I think the answer may simply be that 6 has less memorable material.

[Brian]

I think the answer may simply be that 6 has less memorable material.

Surely not the case! The opening and closing movements have material which would be appropriate in action movies. You do have a point, though, about the central movements, especially the slow movement - less memorable, perhaps, or at least more difficult to bring off, than the slow movements of, say, 7, 8, or 9, especially because (unlike 7 and 8 ) there isn't a great big climax with cymbals crashing, or even optional cymbals crashing, unless I'm very gravely misremembering the piece. Only Celi has really sold me on 6's slow movement.

It might be the case that the very speed and approachability which make the symphony's beginning so cinematic, so frightening, is also a demerit when critics are calculating the 'profundity score.'  (As is, maybe, the fact that the symphony is 5-15 minutes shorter than many of Bruckner's others.)

Edit: Forgot I can't put '8' in parentheses

[Mirror Image]

6 is supposedly the difficult one, though measuring relative difficulty in Bruckner's symphonies would itself surely be a tasker! I think the answer may simply be that 6 has less memorable material.

What's interesting is Bruckner's 6th is perceived as the "difficult" one just like Sibelius's 6th is difficult. Hmmm...food for thought.

Anyway, I'm watching Gunter Wand conduct the NDR Symphony Orchestra right now and the last movement is on and I have say there is a lot of the material is memorable. That Adagio is something else. Puts me into another world. The quick Scherzo movement provides some interesting rhythms. I'm about to listen to the 7th again as it's been awhile on this one. I think I'll visit an old friend...

[asin]B00000E3HJ[/asin]

[eyeresist]

Surely not the case! The opening and closing movements have material which would be appropriate in action movies.

Do you find action movie scores especially memorable?

I gauge memorability by how easily I can recall themes I haven't heard for a while. Offhand, I know the first few minutes of 4 plus the scherzo, the openings of 1 and 3 plus moments of 3's finale, the openings of 8's first and last movements, and large chunks of 9. To be honest, I'd have to stretch myself to recall anything from 7, though it would probably be easier to recall the adagio's main theme if I wasn't currently listening to Mahler's 6th!

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Bruckner's Sixth is among my favourites. I rate the Adagio as highly as its more admired successors.

[jlaurson]

I've been reading a good bit about the 6th, one of the more underrated symphonies of Bruckner's symphonic output, and I still can't understand it's neglect. What do the fellow Brucknerians here think of this symphony? Why do you think it tends to get overlooked by 4, 5, 7, 8, and 9?

The Sixth had the problem of the parts (players) being different from the score (conductor), which may be one, possibly the crucial, reason why the Sixth was neglected until recently... less performed, less recorded, less-often listened-to... which still spills over into its perception as a lesser/neglected symphony today. Conductors were just too bloody lazy in the days. :-)

[Renfield]

Judging from the somewhat hit-and-miss results, I suspect the Bruckner 6th is indeed quite a bit tricky to conduct. Certainly, it sounds a lot more sensitive to all the various tempi, and the transitions between them, than the more 'monolithic' symphonies.

So Jens may have a point - like Mahler's 7th, it may have been too 'annoying' for most conductors around the Bruckner boom.

[jwinter]

Just pulled the trigger on this set.  Anyone familiar with it?

[asin]B0027LZ4CE[/asin]