Bruckner's Abbey

[kishnevi]

Occasionally the orchestra is a bit rough on some of the Tintner. He's especially good on 1, 2,  and 3 I recall.

Different ears, different ears....Tintner's recordings of those three symphonies almost convinced me Bruckner was not worth listening to.  (He had some help from Colin Davis.)    It was Herreweghe's Seventh and Nagano's Fourth that made me think that perhaps there was something to this Anton guy after all.

My two favorites (overall) are Karajan and Wand.

[Ken B]

Different ears, different ears....Tintner's recordings of those three symphonies almost convinced me Bruckner was not worth listening to.  (He had some help from Colin Davis.)    It was Herreweghe's Seventh and Nagano's Fourth that made me think that perhaps there was something to this Anton guy after all.

My two favorites (overall) are Karajan and Wand.

Well 2 is dreadful, 1 is not very good, and only with 3 do we get to worthwhile music, so that might be part of it. 

[kishnevi]

Well 2 is dreadful, 1 is not very good, and only with 3 do we get to worthwhile music, so that might be part of it. 

Karajan managed to make 1 and 2 into very worthwhile music (for me, at least)--one reason I rate him so high. 

[Ken B]

Karajan managed to make 1 and 2 into very worthwhile music (for me, at least)--one reason I rate him so high.

In truth I wouldn't know. I listened to the rest of the hvk cycle many times, but I stopped listening to one and two a while ago. Celi even omits them altogether.

[Leo K.]

Well 2 is dreadful, 1 is not very good, and only with 3 do we get to worthwhile music, so that might be part of it. 

You don't back up your subjective conclusions regarding B1 and B2. And Celi not conducting 1 and 2 is no excuse. What do YOU think.

[Ken B]

You don't back up your subjective conclusions regarding B1 and B2. And Celi not conducting 1 and 2 is no excuse. What do YOU think.

I thought I said what I think. You want a moment by moment summary? I stopped listening to those two 7 or 8 years ago.

[Leo K.]

I thought I said what I think. You want a moment by moment summary? I stopped listening to those two 7 or 8 years ago.

Yes. If you're going to call the B2 dreadful, you need to give me a more informed answer, especially if you're not qualifying your statement with "In my opinion...".

[Ken B]

Yes. If you're going to call the B2 dreadful, you need to give me a more informed answer, especially if you're not qualifying your statement with "In my opinion...".

In my opinion "in my opinion" is implicit when I state my opinion. I don't insist you share it.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Bruckner's first two symphonies have always been firm favourites of mine. The first because of its fire and impetuousness, the second because of its spaciousness and lyricism. Guilini is wonderful in the Second. For the First I have more contenders (Haitink, Jochum, Svetlanov, Neuman...) Yes, the first really Brucknerian symphony is No. 3. But its two predecessors already contain great music.

[Sergeant Rock]

Despite his current huge reputation I have never really liked the Wand I have....but Karajan rules here I believe.

A few years ago I conducted a Deathmatch between the two conductors (Wand's Köln recordings vs the Karajan box). The winners:

1-Wand

2-Karajan

3-Karajan

4-Wand  (although if the competition had been against Karajan's EMI Fourth rather than the DG, Karajan would have won)

5-Tie

6-Karajan  (although neither is a favorite recording)

7- Karajan

8- Wand

9-Wand


Sarge

[Ken B]

A few years ago I conducted a Deathmatch between the two conductors (Wand's Köln recordings vs the Karajan box). The winners:

1-Wand

2-Karajan

3-Karajan

4-Wand  (although if the competition had been against Karajan's EMI Fourth rather than the DG, Karajan would have won)

5-Tie

6-Karajan  (although neither is a favorite recording)

7- Karajan

8- Wand

9-Wand


Sarge

Which Wand I wonder? He made about 18 recordings of each! I have the Sony box, lots of NDR orchestra.
I do love hvk's 9

[DavidW]

What about Jochum vs Karajan vs Wand Sarge?

I have to say the Karajan Bruckner box is pretty awesome.  Even if none of them stack up with the best, I don't feel that they are any duds and they are each compelling.

[Sergeant Rock]

What about Jochum vs Karajan vs Wand Sarge?

Which Wand I wonder? He made about 18 recordings of each! I have the Sony box, lots of NDR orchestra.

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VS

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I did the comparison after someone asked which box would be the better choice (I was curious myself). They were only interested in those two cycles (I think they already had Jochum). The comparison increased my admiration for Wand. Based on casual listening years before I'd dismissed his Kölner RSO.

Sarge

[Ken B]

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VS

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I did the comparison after someone asked which box would be the better choice (I was curious myself). They were only interested in those two cycles (I think they already had Jochum). The comparison increased my admiration for Wand. Based on casual listening years before I'd dismissed his Kölner RSO.

Sarge

Wow. Thats my Wand. Based on comments I've read here you and I share a lot of common prefrences, so I will give the Wand another close look, especially in 8 and 9.
Bruckner overload, since I have Celi coming.

[Sergeant Rock]

Wow. Thats my Wand. Based on comments I've read here you and I share a lot of common prefrences, so I will give the Wand another close look, especially in 8 and 9.
Bruckner overload, since I have Celi coming.

In fact I do prefer Wand's later recordings (at least the ones I've heard, especially the Berlin 8th and his last 4th--coupled with the Schubert 5th) but that close listen to the Kölner RSO cycle did reveal some gems.

Of the eight Bruckner cycles I own, Celi and Maazel (live with SOBR) are my favorites.

Sarge

[Ken B]

In fact I do prefer Wand's later recordings (at least the ones I've heard, especially the Berlin 8th and his last 4th--coupled with the Schubert 5th) but that close listen to the Kölner RSO did reveal some gems.

Of the eight Bruckner cycles I own, Celi and Maazel (live with SOBR) are my favorites.

Sarge

Well there you go. Celi is only my sixth cycle ...

[kishnevi]

Wow. Thats my Wand. Based on comments I've read here you and I share a lot of common prefrences, so I will give the Wand another close look, especially in 8 and 9.
Bruckner overload, since I have Celi coming.

While you're in the relisten mode, may I suggest Herbie's recordings of the First and Second (specifically, the ones in the box Sarge posted)?

Let's see--Karajan, Wand,  Jochum (EMI), Celi, and the rest of my Bruckner is an assortment of individual recordings.  So you're two up on me.

[Ken B]

Ok, Wand KRSO 8 ...

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As my Amazon review says, the playing is ragged in places. The brass are often bleating. I also found no real mystery. Or rather I did: it's a mystery why people praise this set so highly! Not that it's bad; Wand keeps the lines quite clear, the harpist is great, the finale of the last mvmt is stately and grand. but there's a lot of Bruckner available now, I just think better is available. Both Jochums and  Karajan are reasonably priced.

[Cato]

Ok, Wand KRSO 8 ...

[asin]B0042U2HLY[/asin]

As my Amazon review says, the playing is ragged in places. The brass are often bleating. I also found no real mystery. Or rather I did: it's a mystery why people praise this set so highly! Not that it's bad; Wand keeps the lines quite clear, the harpist is great, the finale of the last mvmt is stately and grand. but there's a lot of Bruckner available now, I just think better is available. Both Jochums and  Karajan are reasonably priced.

The Amazon reviewer named "Joe" of Sarajevo wrote:

there's nothing wrong with the orchestra, sir. If you check the original vinyl editions, you will find their sound glorious and the performance exquisite. Soundwise, the brass is much clearer and more prominent than the Barenboim/CSO Bruckner set. However, the CD transfer is not so great, and especially lacking in the lower frequencies.

It seems odd that a simple transfer from vinyl to CD would cause the brass section to seem less than competent.  Or...?

Many thanks for the comments!

[trung224]

Ok, Wand KRSO 8 ...

[asin]B0042U2HLY[/asin]

As my Amazon review says, the playing is ragged in places. The brass are often bleating. I also found no real mystery. Or rather I did: it's a mystery why people praise this set so highly! Not that it's bad; Wand keeps the lines quite clear, the harpist is great, the finale of the last mvmt is stately and grand. but there's a lot of Bruckner available now, I just think better is available. Both Jochums and  Karajan are reasonably priced.

   I think listener rates Wand  highly because of various live performance from his later years, especially ones with NDR Orchestra and BPO.