And They're Off! The Democratic Candidates for 2020

[j winter]

Greetings,

I have avoided posting on this thread for a long while, for two reasons:  1) political arguments are just not my thing, and 2) I'm biased, having lived in Delaware for my entire life (Delaware being Joe Biden's home state).  Parts of my family have been active in Democratic party politics in Delaware literally since FDR; it's a small state, and while I can't claim to really know Biden personally, I've met him at least a couple of dozen times over the course of my life, in restaurants, state fairs, weddings & family functions.  Members of my extended family have worked for him, and I've voted for him for various offices ever since I was old enough to vote. 

So, as I say, I'm biased.  I'm personally convinced that Biden has the character and the deep experience to make an excellent President – any concerns I've had have always been around whether he can survive the campaign process, rather than any reservations on how he would perform once elected.  But I don't expect any of the above to influence anyone here – it's my own personal experience, and unlikely to transfer to others.

What I do want to say is this:  I believe the source of Biden's appeal yesterday is a great deal simpler than many media pundits seem to think.  Biden is, if nothing else, a centrist – on almost every issue, he believes in the governing principle that compromise and consensus is more effective than conflict.  A large majority of American citizens share this pragmatic outlook – while the far right and far left get all the media attention, most Americans are actually somewhere in the middle.  Both Trump and Sanders thrive on conflict, and on pushing the discourse away from the ideological center towards the edges – I don't mean to make a false equivalency here, but both men clearly are pushing a rhetoric of all-out war against their "enemies," and consider any form of compromise to be a weakness.   Both of them are constantly itching for a fight – they thrive on conflict, on being the candidate who will wage war on behalf of their followers.

What Biden's rhetoric offers is the prospect of peace, a return to quiet civility after many long years of politicians and pundits yelling and screaming at each other.  Such a return is likely impossible, of course, but the appeal is visceral and powerful.  Biden often comes across as old-fashioned, a man who's a bit out of his time.  This is not necessarily a weakness, IMO; a LOT of voters look at the hellscape that Twitter and cable news have wrought, and simply ask, "we're all Americans... we have far more in common that what separates us... why can't we all stop yelling at each other, roll up our sleeves, and get something done?" 

THAT's the basis of Biden's appeal – and it's addressing a deep, psychological need among many conflict-fatigued voters.  It isn't about detailed policy positions or economic plans; when so many Democrats say that their top priority is ousting Trump, I think what they really mean is that they simply want the shouting to stop.  A large part of the electorate, myself very much included, is suffering from something like PTSD at this point -- the constant roller-coaster of bellicosity and scandal from this administration is literally making us ill.  Sanders' revolution would fundamentally mean more war, albeit on a front and for causes that are much more noble than Trump's.  The US electorate is simply tired of conflict: more than radical change (and necessary as that change may be in the long term), right now more than anything else they want a "normal" President who understands the basic function of the Executive Branch, will stay off Twitter, and will bring calm and consensus back to politics.  Based on that, I think Biden has an excellent chance of winning the White House in November.

[Ratliff]

     The hope for the left doesn't depending on President Sanders, it depends on Sens. Sanders and Warren exerting pressure on the next Dem administration to follow through.

     Ideology doesn't automatically equip its owner with blinders about how politics actually works. You need different types and skill sets to work together. Sanders worked with Sen. McCain on reforming the Veterans Administration. Warren founded the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau Trump wants to destroy.

     Repubs will sacrifice their first born to Moloch to get their tax cuts. They can't comprehend that Dems have to be pushed hard to even attempt to get what they want. Sanders and Warren are needed where they are.

I'll say this, when I understand your posts I generally agree with them.

[Ratliff]

Greetings,

I have avoided posting on this thread for a long while, for two reasons:  1) political arguments are just not my thing, and 2) I'm biased, having lived in Delaware for my entire life (Delaware being Joe Biden's home state).  Parts of my family have been active in Democratic party politics in Delaware literally since FDR; it's a small state, and while I can't claim to really know Biden personally, I've met him at least a couple of dozen times over the course of my life, in restaurants, state fairs, weddings & family functions.  Members of my extended family have worked for him, and I've voted for him for various offices ever since I was old enough to vote. 

So, as I say, I'm biased.  I'm personally convinced that Biden has the character and the deep experience to make an excellent President – any concerns I've had have always been around whether he can survive the campaign process, rather than any reservations on how he would perform once elected.  But I don't expect any of the above to influence anyone here – it's my own personal experience, and unlikely to transfer to others.

What I do want to say is this:  I believe the source of Biden's appeal yesterday is a great deal simpler than many media pundits seem to think.  Biden is, if nothing else, a centrist – on almost every issue, he believes in the governing principle that compromise and consensus is more effective than conflict.  A large majority of American citizens share this pragmatic outlook – while the far right and far left get all the media attention, most Americans are actually somewhere in the middle.  Both Trump and Sanders thrive on conflict, and on pushing the discourse away from the ideological center towards the edges – I don't mean to make a false equivalency here, but both men clearly are pushing a rhetoric of all-out war against their "enemies," and consider any form of compromise to be a weakness.   Both of them are constantly itching for a fight – they thrive on conflict, on being the candidate who will wage war on behalf of their followers.

What Biden's rhetoric offers is the prospect of peace, a return to quiet civility after many long years of politicians and pundits yelling and screaming at each other.  Such a return is likely impossible, of course, but the appeal is visceral and powerful.  Biden often comes across as old-fashioned, a man who's a bit out of his time.  This is not necessarily a weakness, IMO; a LOT of voters look at the hellscape that Twitter and cable news have wrought, and simply ask, "we're all Americans... we have far more in common that what separates us... why can't we all stop yelling at each other, roll up our sleeves, and get something done?" 

THAT's the basis of Biden's appeal – and it's addressing a deep, psychological need among many conflict-fatigued voters.  It isn't about detailed policy positions or economic plans; when so many Democrats say that their top priority is ousting Trump, I think what they really mean is that they simply want the shouting to stop.  A large part of the electorate, myself very much included, is suffering from something like PTSD at this point -- the constant roller-coaster of bellicosity and scandal from this administration is literally making us ill.  Sanders' revolution would fundamentally mean more war, albeit on a front and for causes that are much more noble than Trump's.  The US electorate is simply tired of conflict: more than radical change (and necessary as that change may be in the long term), right now more than anything else they want a "normal" President who understands the basic function of the Executive Branch, will stay off Twitter, and will bring calm and consensus back to politics.  Based on that, I think Biden has an excellent chance of winning the White House in November.

Eloquently said. My main concern, will he survive a debate with Trump? It takes a lot of energy to bat down the torrent of lies and bullshite.

[Florestan]

YOU ARE NOT HELPING YOUR SORRY SELF AT ALL!! GET AND STAY THE FUCK OFF THIS THREAD IF YOU SINCERELY SEEK HELP.

THRICE AMEN, BROTHER!

[drogulus]

I'll say this, when I understand your posts I generally agree with them.

     I'll do better next time.

[drogulus]

Greetings,

I have avoided posting on this thread for a long while, for two reasons:  1) political arguments are just not my thing, and 2) I'm biased, having lived in Delaware for my entire life (Delaware being Joe Biden's home state).  Parts of my family have been active in Democratic party politics in Delaware literally since FDR; it's a small state, and while I can't claim to really know Biden personally, I've met him at least a couple of dozen times over the course of my life, in restaurants, state fairs, weddings & family functions.  Members of my extended family have worked for him, and I've voted for him for various offices ever since I was old enough to vote. 

So, as I say, I'm biased.  I'm personally convinced that Biden has the character and the deep experience to make an excellent President – any concerns I've had have always been around whether he can survive the campaign process, rather than any reservations on how he would perform once elected.  But I don't expect any of the above to influence anyone here – it's my own personal experience, and unlikely to transfer to others.

What I do want to say is this:  I believe the source of Biden's appeal yesterday is a great deal simpler than many media pundits seem to think.  Biden is, if nothing else, a centrist – on almost every issue, he believes in the governing principle that compromise and consensus is more effective than conflict.  A large majority of American citizens share this pragmatic outlook – while the far right and far left get all the media attention, most Americans are actually somewhere in the middle.  Both Trump and Sanders thrive on conflict, and on pushing the discourse away from the ideological center towards the edges – I don't mean to make a false equivalency here, but both men clearly are pushing a rhetoric of all-out war against their "enemies," and consider any form of compromise to be a weakness.   Both of them are constantly itching for a fight – they thrive on conflict, on being the candidate who will wage war on behalf of their followers.

What Biden's rhetoric offers is the prospect of peace, a return to quiet civility after many long years of politicians and pundits yelling and screaming at each other.  Such a return is likely impossible, of course, but the appeal is visceral and powerful.  Biden often comes across as old-fashioned, a man who's a bit out of his time.  This is not necessarily a weakness, IMO; a LOT of voters look at the hellscape that Twitter and cable news have wrought, and simply ask, "we're all Americans... we have far more in common that what separates us... why can't we all stop yelling at each other, roll up our sleeves, and get something done?" 

THAT's the basis of Biden's appeal – and it's addressing a deep, psychological need among many conflict-fatigued voters.  It isn't about detailed policy positions or economic plans; when so many Democrats say that their top priority is ousting Trump, I think what they really mean is that they simply want the shouting to stop.  A large part of the electorate, myself very much included, is suffering from something like PTSD at this point -- the constant roller-coaster of bellicosity and scandal from this administration is literally making us ill.  Sanders' revolution would fundamentally mean more war, albeit on a front and for causes that are much more noble than Trump's.  The US electorate is simply tired of conflict: more than radical change (and necessary as that change may be in the long term), right now more than anything else they want a "normal" President who understands the basic function of the Executive Branch, will stay off Twitter, and will bring calm and consensus back to politics.  Based on that, I think Biden has an excellent chance of winning the White House in November.

     I think you're generally right about Biden and voter motivations. I see voters as willing to trade chaotic and damaging conflict away for a big fight that can produce a positive result. Conflict won't end.
Repubs will defend white minority rule with every weapon at their disposal, because they are doing it now. It's Lost Cause II, and they have no safe pathway out of their predicament other than retirement.

[71 dB]

Kyle Kulinski: How to go forward:

1. Bernie's team has to expose Biden's record. Bernie has been too kind to Biden calling him a "friend." This is a primary!

2. Tell voters that this highly organized effort to take Bernie down is because Bernie represents people and not the corporate owners (call out corruption).

3. Bernie has to stress that Biden is the extremist. Bernie is the moderate advocating stuff that is commonplace in other countries and popular among the majority of Americans according to the polls. That makes Bernie the moderate and Biden an extremist. Enough with Bernie calling himself a democratic socialist. That is an unnecessory scary label for some people (especially older people). Instead try to get the people you are struggling with.

4. Hammer away electability and how Biden would definitely lose to Trump.

[Karl Henning]

Greetings,

I have avoided posting on this thread for a long while, for two reasons:  1) political arguments are just not my thing, and 2) I'm biased, having lived in Delaware for my entire life (Delaware being Joe Biden's home state).  Parts of my family have been active in Democratic party politics in Delaware literally since FDR; it's a small state, and while I can't claim to really know Biden personally, I've met him at least a couple of dozen times over the course of my life, in restaurants, state fairs, weddings & family functions.  Members of my extended family have worked for him, and I've voted for him for various offices ever since I was old enough to vote. 

So, as I say, I'm biased.  I'm personally convinced that Biden has the character and the deep experience to make an excellent President – any concerns I've had have always been around whether he can survive the campaign process, rather than any reservations on how he would perform once elected.  But I don't expect any of the above to influence anyone here – it's my own personal experience, and unlikely to transfer to others.

What I do want to say is this:  I believe the source of Biden's appeal yesterday is a great deal simpler than many media pundits seem to think.  Biden is, if nothing else, a centrist – on almost every issue, he believes in the governing principle that compromise and consensus is more effective than conflict.  A large majority of American citizens share this pragmatic outlook – while the far right and far left get all the media attention, most Americans are actually somewhere in the middle.  Both Trump and Sanders thrive on conflict, and on pushing the discourse away from the ideological center towards the edges – I don't mean to make a false equivalency here, but both men clearly are pushing a rhetoric of all-out war against their "enemies," and consider any form of compromise to be a weakness.   Both of them are constantly itching for a fight – they thrive on conflict, on being the candidate who will wage war on behalf of their followers.

What Biden's rhetoric offers is the prospect of peace, a return to quiet civility after many long years of politicians and pundits yelling and screaming at each other.  Such a return is likely impossible, of course, but the appeal is visceral and powerful.  Biden often comes across as old-fashioned, a man who's a bit out of his time.  This is not necessarily a weakness, IMO; a LOT of voters look at the hellscape that Twitter and cable news have wrought, and simply ask, "we're all Americans... we have far more in common that what separates us... why can't we all stop yelling at each other, roll up our sleeves, and get something done?" 

THAT's the basis of Biden's appeal – and it's addressing a deep, psychological need among many conflict-fatigued voters.  It isn't about detailed policy positions or economic plans; when so many Democrats say that their top priority is ousting Trump, I think what they really mean is that they simply want the shouting to stop.  A large part of the electorate, myself very much included, is suffering from something like PTSD at this point -- the constant roller-coaster of bellicosity and scandal from this administration is literally making us ill.  Sanders' revolution would fundamentally mean more war, albeit on a front and for causes that are much more noble than Trump's.  The US electorate is simply tired of conflict: more than radical change (and necessary as that change may be in the long term), right now more than anything else they want a "normal" President who understands the basic function of the Executive Branch, will stay off Twitter, and will bring calm and consensus back to politics.  Based on that, I think Biden has an excellent chance of winning the White House in November.

Best post on the thread in some little while, thanks.

[Karl Henning]

Kyle Kulinski: How to go forward:

1. Bernie's team has to expose Biden's record. Bernie has been too kind to Biden calling him a "friend." This is a primary!

2. Tell voters that this highly organized effort to take Bernie down is because Bernie represents people and not the corporate owners (call out corruption).

3. Bernie has to stress that Biden is the extremist. Bernie is the moderate advocating stuff that is commonplace in other countries and popular among the majority of Americans according to the polls. That makes Bernie the moderate and Biden an extremist. Enough with Bernie calling himself a democratic socialist. That is an unnecessory scary label for some people (especially older people). Instead try to get the people you are struggling with.

4. Hammer away electability and how Biden would definitely lose to Trump.

Will you go away back to the safe space of your bubble?

[drogulus]

Kyle Kulinski: How to go forward:


2. Tell voters that this highly organized effort to take Bernie down is because Bernie represents people and not the corporate owners (call out corruption).

     It doesn't look very well organized to me. The Biden resurgence was about as far from the result of a cabal of "anyone but Sanders" operatives as one could imagine. Voters did it.

[Karl Henning]

     It doesn't look very well organized to me. The Biden resurgence was about as far from the result of a cabal of "anyone but Sanders" operatives as one could imagine. Voters did it.

Kyle is not any less delusional than Poju.

"Bernie has to stress that Biden is the extremist"

[71 dB]

     It doesn't look very well organized to me. The Biden resurgence was about as far from the result of a cabal of "anyone but Sanders" operatives as one could imagine. Voters did it.

Well it was better organized than what the Republican party did (or didn't do) to stop Trump in 2016.

[Karl Henning]

Sanders can't lead the Democrats if his campaign treats them like the enemy

[71 dB]

Kyle is not any less delusional than Poju.

"Bernie has to stress that Biden is the extremist"

Biden doesn't believe healthcare is a human right, but he thinks it's ok to bomb foreign countries to enrich the military industry complex. That makes him an extremist.

[Karl Henning]

Sanders's pledge to bring new voters into his movement seems fairly empty in the results we're seeing so far. His coalition has shrunk since 2016, not grown.

[Karl Henning]

Sanders can't lead the Democrats if his campaign treats them like the enemy

"It's not that Sanders is running a weak campaign. But he is, in a way, running the wrong campaign. He's the frontrunner for the Democratic nomination — at least he was until tonight — but he's still running as an insurgent. The political revolution was supposed to close the gap between these realities: If Sanders could turn out enough new voters, he could sweep away the Democratic establishment and build his own party in its place. But going all the way back to Iowa, that strategy failed. Sanders won as a Democrat, not a revolutionary, and he needed to pivot to a strategy that would unite the existing Democratic Party around him.

But it's hard to move from treating the Democratic Party establishment with contempt to treating it like a constituency, and so far, the Sanders campaign hasn't."

[Florestan]

Greetings,

I have avoided posting on this thread for a long while, for two reasons:  1) political arguments are just not my thing, and 2) I'm biased, having lived in Delaware for my entire life (Delaware being Joe Biden's home state).  Parts of my family have been active in Democratic party politics in Delaware literally since FDR; it's a small state, and while I can't claim to really know Biden personally, I've met him at least a couple of dozen times over the course of my life, in restaurants, state fairs, weddings & family functions.  Members of my extended family have worked for him, and I've voted for him for various offices ever since I was old enough to vote. 

So, as I say, I'm biased.  I'm personally convinced that Biden has the character and the deep experience to make an excellent President – any concerns I've had have always been around whether he can survive the campaign process, rather than any reservations on how he would perform once elected.  But I don't expect any of the above to influence anyone here – it's my own personal experience, and unlikely to transfer to others.

What I do want to say is this:  I believe the source of Biden's appeal yesterday is a great deal simpler than many media pundits seem to think.  Biden is, if nothing else, a centrist – on almost every issue, he believes in the governing principle that compromise and consensus is more effective than conflict.  A large majority of American citizens share this pragmatic outlook – while the far right and far left get all the media attention, most Americans are actually somewhere in the middle.  Both Trump and Sanders thrive on conflict, and on pushing the discourse away from the ideological center towards the edges – I don't mean to make a false equivalency here, but both men clearly are pushing a rhetoric of all-out war against their "enemies," and consider any form of compromise to be a weakness.   Both of them are constantly itching for a fight – they thrive on conflict, on being the candidate who will wage war on behalf of their followers.

What Biden's rhetoric offers is the prospect of peace, a return to quiet civility after many long years of politicians and pundits yelling and screaming at each other.  Such a return is likely impossible, of course, but the appeal is visceral and powerful.  Biden often comes across as old-fashioned, a man who's a bit out of his time.  This is not necessarily a weakness, IMO; a LOT of voters look at the hellscape that Twitter and cable news have wrought, and simply ask, "we're all Americans... we have far more in common that what separates us... why can't we all stop yelling at each other, roll up our sleeves, and get something done?" 

THAT's the basis of Biden's appeal – and it's addressing a deep, psychological need among many conflict-fatigued voters.  It isn't about detailed policy positions or economic plans; when so many Democrats say that their top priority is ousting Trump, I think what they really mean is that they simply want the shouting to stop.  A large part of the electorate, myself very much included, is suffering from something like PTSD at this point -- the constant roller-coaster of bellicosity and scandal from this administration is literally making us ill.  Sanders' revolution would fundamentally mean more war, albeit on a front and for causes that are much more noble than Trump's.  The US electorate is simply tired of conflict: more than radical change (and necessary as that change may be in the long term), right now more than anything else they want a "normal" President who understands the basic function of the Executive Branch, will stay off Twitter, and will bring calm and consensus back to politics.  Based on that, I think Biden has an excellent chance of winning the White House in November.

Excellent post, reasoned and reasonable, a voice of sanity! Bravo!

[Karl Henning]

"In recent weeks, Biden has been racking up endorsements from Democratic Party heavyweights. Days before the crucial South Carolina primary, Rep. Jim Clyburn blessed Biden — giving him the single most important endorsement a Democrat can win in South Carolina. Biden went on to win the primary by almost 30 points. Days later, Biden got endorsements from Pete Buttigieg, Sen. Amy Klobuchar, Beto O'Rourke, and Harry Reid — endorsements that, in his speech Tuesday night, he credited with helping him notch a shockingly strong Super Tuesday performance.

Sanders's supporters have reacted to these endorsements with fury. To them[ i.e., in the little bubble of their "reality], it's proof the fix is in.

If Biden wins the nomination, it will be a real lesson in how power works. Bernie was on track to win, Biden had no campaign, and they all knew it. So a few phone calls were made behind the scenes to Amy, Pete, Beto. Several million was put into a pro-Warren Super PAC. Voila!

If that's the lesson Sanders's supporters take about how power works, it's the wrong lesson. The work of the president requires convincing legislators in your party to support your agenda, sometimes at the cost of your political or policy ambitions. If Sanders and his team don't figure out how to do it, they could very well lose to Biden, and even if they win, they'll be unable to govern.

Persuading the Amy Klobuchars of the world to support you, even when they know it's a risk, is exactly what the president needs to do to pass bills, whether that's a Green New Deal or Medicare-for-all or just an infrastructure package. Biden, for all his weak debate performances and meandering speeches, is showing he still has that legislator's touch. That he can unite the party around him, and convince even moderate Democrats to support a liberal agenda, is literally the case for his candidacy."

[Ratliff]

     It doesn't look very well organized to me. The Biden resurgence was about as far from the result of a cabal of "anyone but Sanders" operatives as one could imagine. Voters did it.

Quite so. "Who can beat Trump?" is foremost in the mind of every democrat. People were bewildered because the electable candidate (Biden) wasn't winning any elections. Who is the electable candidate, could it be Sanders, could it really be Buttigieg, could it be Warren, could it be Bloomberg? Then the electable candidate actually won an election. "Ok, it's Biden after all." At the beginning I liked Booker, Warren and Harris. Now that they are gone, I'm a reluctant Biden supporter. I mainly worry that he won't do well deflecting Trump's torrent of bullshite at a debate.

The debates are critical, I think, because Trump supporters won't even see Biden, except in Fox News takedowns, except when he is actually on the stage with Trump.

[Karl Henning]

"On Super Tuesday, it was better late than never for former Vice President Joe Biden. Late-deciding voters, that is. One consistent trend across the country was that voters who made their minds up in the last few days moved toward Biden, helping him win some states unexpectedly and run up bigger margins in others. Biden's strength among late-deciding voters was further evidence of his stunning turnaround since the Nevada caucuses — rising from a distant second to Sen. Bernie Sanders and competing with former New York Mayor Michael Bloomberg to the race's front-runner.

Based on preliminary exit poll data from 10 Super Tuesday states,1 Biden won at least 40 percent of the late-deciding vote in every state except for Sanders's home state of Vermont. In six states, Biden performed at least 16 percentage points better among late deciders than early deciders. Conversely, Sanders did far worse among late deciders, harming his chances of winning some states."