Richard Wagner: The Greatest Influence on Western Music?

[Josquin des Prez]

I'd say Elgar was more likely the genius.

It's the vibrational fields, amrite? 

[max]

  Helps the plants grow better max  . 

marvin

Yup! That actually would explain allot! If only we could convert it all to Ethanol! 0:)

[max]

I would say rather that Elgar is not the sort of composer, or the sort of man, that tends to draw a cult following.  Except for the occasional odd duck. Sir Edward was too sane.

Nut cases have often been exceptionally attuned to the roll of first order genius or even Messiah of mankind! I think that's a tradition which started in the Bible which seems to be it's first great literary testament!

As Gods or people they stink and the plebs keep holding that against them!

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Well, I likes Wagner. I'm glad the dude wrote music.

[knight66]

Yes, it was a better plan for him than going into politics. Had he, I doubtthat he would have been remembered so fondly.

Mike

[karlhenning]

Surgically done, Mike.

[marvinbrown]

Yes, it was a better plan for him than going into politics. Had he, I doubtthat he would have been remembered so fondly.

Mike

  Incidentally he was political in may ways,  He participated in the Dresden uprising.  He was an ardent German national who believed that a revolution needed to happen to unite the German people after the Napoleonic wars.  This according to Wagner needed to happen in order for his artwork to flourish. The Dresden uprising failed.  The Prussian army broke the whole thing up with massive arrests.  Wagner was forced to flee with the help of Liszt to Switzerland I believe. I am just grateful that he was not arrested or even executed as a result of this whole affair.  What a total loss to the world of opera that would have been! 

  marvin

[karlhenning]

  Incidentally he was political in many ways . . . .

Incidentally, Marvin, this is not news to Mike.

[marvinbrown]

Incidentally, Marvin, this is not news to Mike.

  Sorry I don't know what got over me...I've been watching far too many documentaries on Wagner  .

  marvin

[karlhenning]

Sudden, irrational passions overtaking a Wagner enthusiast? Well, that's never happened before 

[quintett op.57]

Wagner, fewer "misses" than Berlioz?  Oh, I don't know, I don't know.

misses by Berlioz, I don't know many.

I don't know how you guys manage to quantify like you do.
Berlioz, Liszt, Wagner and Beethoven went in so many different directions.
How is it possible to compare Liszt's piano to Wagner's operas, how do you proceed?

[DavidRoss]

Like this:  \[ \frac{a(0)}{2} + \sum_{k=1}^\infty (a(k) \cos kx + b(k) \sin kx) \]

[Josquin des Prez]

How is it possible to compare Liszt's piano to Wagner's operas, how do you proceed?

Simple. Wagner's operas are filled with moments of great beauty and passion, while Liszt's piano works are an endless stream of sentimental claptrap punctuated by interesting but often clumsy formal and harmonic innovations.

Ultimately, it's the content that matters, who cares about the medium of expression?

[DavidRoss]

Simple. Wagner's operas are filled with moments of great beauty and passion, while Liszt's piano works are an endless stream of sentimental claptrap punctuated by interesting but often clumsy formal and harmonic innovations.

And I really like those moments of great beauty and passion in Wagner's music dramas--they're like island jewels in the sea of sentimental claptrap that otherwise surrounds those lovely moments.

[(poco) Sforzando]

And I really like those moments of great beauty and passion in Wagner's music dramas--they're like island jewels in the sea of sentimental claptrap that otherwise surrounds those lovely moments.

And I really like the moments of great beauty and passion in Liszt's piano works--but I've got such low standards compared to youze guys.

[DavidRoss]

And I really like the moments of great beauty and passion in Liszt's piano works--but I've got such low standards compared to youze guys.

Why are you framing this as a response to me?  Perhaps you quoted the wrong post inadvertently...?  It was Opus 132...er, MozartMobster...er, Josquin des Prez who disparaged Liszt.

By the way, regarding the thread topic, I suspect that if one were inclined a fine case could be made for Liszt's influence surpassing little Dickie's.

And when it comes down to it, there's another little Richard who's influence on Western music has probably been far greater than that of the pompous pamphleteer:

[karlhenning]

How is it possible to compare Liszt's piano to Wagner's operas, how do you proceed?

Excellent point.

And I really like the moments of great beauty and passion in Liszt's piano works.

As do I.

[marvinbrown]

Gentlemen!....please....I love both Liszt and Wagner. I wouldn't want to be without the sublime music of either composer.  Why choose when you can have both?  ...nothing wrong with being greedy here is there?

  marvin

[PSmith08]

Gentlemen!....please....I love both Liszt and Wagner. I wouldn't want to be without the sublime music of either composer.  Why choose when you can have both?  ...nothing wrong with being greedy here is there?

  marvin

Let's not go so far as to say that either Wagner or Liszt was universally sublime, though.

[DavidRoss]

Let's not go so far as to say that either Wagner or Liszt was universally sublime, though.

Who is?