Coronavirus thread

[SimonNZ]

Fauci's statements and analyses, as well as statements, analyses, and summaries by a variety of other US professionals in the space, are available on the CDC website, state websites, and are often typically published in sources like the failing New York Times.  But it's good to see the The Daily Show referenced on GMG.  Very serious.  It lends gravitas to posts.

But government websites are famously being altered to reflect Trump's whimsy. In this climate and administration hearing the words straight out of Fauci's mouth no matter what the forum is, sadly, more reliable. And especially if Trump stops him from answering questions in settings of more "gravitas".

[mc ukrneal]

And you have evidence that the CDC site has been altered, or that it contradicts what Fauci says?

It has been altered several times. There have been multiple articles on the topic (from all sides). Google it if the topic interests you.

[mc ukrneal]

So, you have no evidence.  Got it.

Welcome back.

[drogulus]

     
     I talked to a nurse today and asked about the NPR reported estimate that Massachusetts would hit the death peak around April 18. She thought it might be later.

     Oh shit, NPR must have just changed their estimate. It's now April 27. The death total (through July) is raised as well.

[Kaga2]

Welcome back.

He has a point. He asked for evidence. None was forthcoming. Then you snark. Why is asking for evidence objectionable?

[JBS]

He has a point. He asked for evidence. None was forthcoming. Then you snark. Why is asking for evidence objectionable?

Just so you understand, Todd, despite his very intelligent posts in the music threads, is, in the Diner threads just a plain troll, sneering, snarking, attempting to annoy and provoke and display his superiority to the rest of us mortals.  He doesn't really want evidence, he just wants a response he can use as material for his trolling.He's been away from the forum for a few months, and now returned, and picked up immediately on his usual behavior. 
71 dB at least believes in what he says and wants to convince the rest of us of the truth.

[Kaga2]

Just so you understand, Todd, despite his very intelligent posts in the music threads, is, in the Diner threads just a plain troll, sneering, snarking, attempting to annoy and provoke and display his superiority to the rest of us mortals.  He doesn't really want evidence, he just wants a response he can use as material for his trolling.He's been away from the forum for a few months, and now returned, and picked up immediately on his usual behavior. 
71 dB at least believes in what he says and wants to convince the rest of us of the truth.

With respect, I don't care about squabbles here. I am well aware of the animosities. I do care about the CDC site. I use it for information. So do people who actually have power and make decisions which affect the lives and welfare of millions. If the CDC information has been corrupted that is important. But it also strikes me as utterly fantastical to believe a cabal of the bureaucrats and scientists who staff the CDC are working to re-elect Donald Trump by falsifying data. I think it absurd, frankly. But I am willing to consider evidence.

I am also willing to draw conclusions about those who make such extraordinary charges without evidence.

[mc ukrneal]

He has a point. He asked for evidence. None was forthcoming. Then you snark. Why is asking for evidence objectionable?

Ok, you're new, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Simon was talking about the sites being altered to reflect Trump's views. Here is an article that discusses, among other things, that very topic: https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2020/apr/04/change-follows-kushner-s-our-stockpile-/?news (among others). It's not what I saw earlier, but it has much of the same info. It talks about how the stockpiles part of the site was altered, because of something Kushner said. Here's another: https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/04/03/coronavirus-after-kushner-remarks-national-stockpile-redefined/. The Washington Post also had an article, but it seems to be behind a paywall for me. And another: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/kushner-stockpile-hhs-website-changed-echo-comments-federal/story?id=69936411.

I would hope that the serious medical info on the site would never be changed to reflect political views.

[JBS]

With respect, I don't care about squabbles here. I am well aware of the animosities. I do care about the CDC site. I use it for information. So do people who actually have power and make decisions which affect the lives and welfare of millions. If the CDC information has been corrupted that is important. But it also strikes me as utterly fantastical to believe a cabal of the bureaucrats and scientists who staff the CDC are working to re-elect Donald Trump by falsifying data. I think it absurd, frankly. But I am willing to consider evidence.

I am also willing to draw conclusions about those who make such extraordinary charges without evidence.

Ah, you see that's the difference. You actually want information. Todd doesn't.
Quick google brings this up as most pertinent to COVID19.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/2/21161693/cdc-coronavirus-testing-numbers-website-disappear-expansion-us
.

[SimonNZ]

Ok, you're new, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Simon was talking about the sites being altered to reflect Trump's views. Here is an article that discusses, among other things, that very topic: https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2020/apr/04/change-follows-kushner-s-our-stockpile-/?news (among others). It's not what I saw earlier, but it has much of the same info. It talks about how the stockpiles part of the site was altered, because of something Kushner said. Here's another: https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/04/03/coronavirus-after-kushner-remarks-national-stockpile-redefined/. The Washington Post also had an article, but it seems to be behind a paywall for me. And another: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/kushner-stockpile-hhs-website-changed-echo-comments-federal/story?id=69936411.

I would hope that the serious medical info on the site would never be changed to reflect political views.

Yup. And while I haven't seen an article specific to the CDC doing this its worth considering that the now head of the CDC is a Trumpist with a history of claiming AIDS was gods punishment for gays and would almost certainly jump to it if told.

Also worth remembering the climate change data that other government websites have had to change or suppress if anyone is looking for precedent.

[Herman]

Just so you understand, Todd, despite his very intelligent posts in the music threads, is, in the Diner threads just a plain troll, sneering, snarking, attempting to annoy and provoke and display his superiority to the rest of us mortals.  He doesn't really want evidence, he just wants a response he can use as material for his trolling.He's been away from the forum for a few months, and now returned, and picked up immediately on his usual behavior. 
71 dB at least believes in what he says and wants to convince the rest of us of the truth.

indeed. It's kind of ironic, given GMG's origin history that he's shrunk into an extra nasty version of the Trump acolyte USA chauvinist troll that the first GMGers sought to flee (twenty years ago?) when they left places like RMCR and CMG, and he would feel right at home there now.

[Kaga2]

Ok, you're new, so I'll give you the benefit of the doubt. Simon was talking about the sites being altered to reflect Trump's views. Here is an article that discusses, among other things, that very topic: https://www.arkansasonline.com/news/2020/apr/04/change-follows-kushner-s-our-stockpile-/?news (among others). It's not what I saw earlier, but it has much of the same info. It talks about how the stockpiles part of the site was altered, because of something Kushner said. Here's another: https://www.mercurynews.com/2020/04/03/coronavirus-after-kushner-remarks-national-stockpile-redefined/. The Washington Post also had an article, but it seems to be behind a paywall for me. And another: https://abcnews.go.com/Politics/kushner-stockpile-hhs-website-changed-echo-comments-federal/story?id=69936411.

I would hope that the serious medical info on the site would never be changed to reflect political views.

I read your response, which is both wrong and insulting. I have read this site for some time. I also read the Arkansas link. I am unconvinced. It's an opinion piece that implies, without actual proof, that a site was changed for political purposes. That's not proof. Doubly so since the article doesn't quote the CDC site itself as changing.
Together I think that has satisfied my need to engage with you.

Ah, you see that's the difference. You actually want information. Todd doesn't.
Quick google brings this up as most pertinent to COVID19.
https://www.theverge.com/2020/3/2/21161693/cdc-coronavirus-testing-numbers-website-disappear-expansion-us
.

Thank you for the link, and the polite and pertinent reply. Again, I didn't find that convincing. There are a lot of reasons to temporarily remove a number like that, including uncertainty about it. So, not proof.

[SimonNZ]

The very best a fourth rate fiction author can scribble.

Your'e just having a stir. You must be glad we're all willing to oblige.

Because you know I wasn't saying the CDC site has been altered. I was saying people may want to hear from Fauci directly because there's now a history of government sites being altered, even if that doesn't yet include that one.

Sigh...I'm sorry to learn that over the last couple of months the doctors weren't able to pull that stick out of your ass.

[Kaga2]

I wonder if this thread has a purpose. Several of you have referred to long standing animosities and feuds. They are evidently on display tonight.
As for me, my ignore list has grown again.

[Herman]

it is an amicable and international thread, with one easily ignored exception now

[SimonNZ]

BBC:

How the spread of coronavirus is testing Africa

[Daverz]

I wonder if this thread has a purpose. Several of you have referred to long standing animosities and feuds. They are evidently on display tonight.
As for me, my ignore list has grown again.

No, you're misreading things.  It's just that Todd came back.  Todd is an asshole and has been for years.

[SimonNZ]

Paraguayans go hungry as coronavirus lockdown ravages livelihoods
Early, aggressive measures seem to be controlling the disease but the pandemic has laid bare the country's social inequalities

"When Covid-19 arrived in South America, Paraguay was one of the first countries to take measures to contain the virus, closing schools and banning public gatherings after just the second confirmed case on 11 March.

The nationwide lockdown seems to be controlling the spread of the disease, but it has created another problem: large numbers of Paraguayans are going hungry in their own homes.

Paraguay has reported some of the lowest infection rates in South America – currently 129 confirmed cases and six deaths.

But the government of President Mario Abdo Benítez has been heavily criticised for failing to support people left without income during the total quarantine – which is now coming to the end of the third week and is set to continue until 19 April.

Sixty-five per cent of Paraguay's workers earn their living in the informal economy and have no access to benefits during the coronavirus crisis.

And while the government has been authorised to secure loans of $1.6bn to face the crisis, only a small part of a promised scheme of emergency payments of about $76 and food packs have reached those left in need. A further payment scheme is yet to be implemented."[...]

[SimonNZ]

From Al Jazeera's 101 East series: "China: Truth In A Pandemic" (26 min.)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KjXR4o2EFYI

[Mandryka]

The total numbers, even in relation to the size of the total population, do not tell the real story about the effectiveness of the way an outbreak is handled... The sheer size of the total US population will blur out any (geographically concentrated) number of fatalities. The progression of the virus after initial contamination does give a more reliable picture:



Conclusion: the US isn't doing so swell. Although no Western country can be credited for responding  effectively....
I suspect that the bad US performance is mainly because its response was late, slow and uncoördinated. I could emphasise nature of the health care system, but since there is no real treatment I think that plays a secondary role to imposing social distancing.

Anyway, I'm  surprised you haven't celebrateted the demise of the power of federal government yet?
Since there seems ample reason to do so...

Q

The big difference between China and the rest is this. China quarantined whole cities where the virus had taken hold. Food and other essential services were taken care of by the uninfected population.

We can't do that. We have partially quarantined a large part of the population, but another large part is busy working still, with little protection.

I haven't seen any modelling for this. You have two transmission rates - a low one for 60% of the population, and a high one for 30%. It could be that we won't see a peak and then a falling off. Rather, we may see a high plateau.