Coronavirus thread

[amw]

The goal of any public health policy should be to protect people who are vulnerable to the virus even when vaccinated—since COVID-19 functions much more as an autoimmune disorder than a respiratory one, fully vaccinated cancer patients, transplant recipients, HIV-positive individuals, etc, are still at high risk because their immune responses are already dysregulated. As such an unvaccinated person can pose a threat to someone in this position, especially if they also refuse to wear masks or wash their hands etc (as many do).

[Mirror Image]

Got boosted this morning.

Very nice. I don't think I'll need the booster shot, but I have urged my dad and mom both to get theirs as soon as they can.

[Mandryka]

The goal of any public health policy should be to protect people who are vulnerable to the virus even when vaccinated—since COVID-19 functions much more as an autoimmune disorder than a respiratory one, fully vaccinated cancer patients, transplant recipients, HIV-positive individuals, etc, are still at high risk because their immune responses are already dysregulated. As such an unvaccinated person can pose a threat to someone in this position, especially if they also refuse to wear masks or wash their hands etc (as many do).

I think this is a really hard thing. 100% protection is not possible without bringing things to a standstill. The vaccines mean that there is some protection. How to say how much protection is the right, optimum level?

[Mandryka]

Very nice. I don't think I'll need the booster shot, but I have urged my dad and mom both to get theirs as soon as they can.

In the UK they are encouraging people over 40 to take a third shot.

[Spotted Horses]

Suppose the person who is required to take the vaccine decides that they would prefer not to, and does so understanding the risks to himself.  Am I right to think that in such a case the justification for the requirement would come from the harm they may do to others -- in particular, others who are vaccinated?

I am not saying a case can't be made, I just want to map out the logic of the situation.

During the blitz of London people were required to observe blackout conditions, covering their windows with heavy curtains or keeping lights off. Suppose a person decides not to cover their windows because they prefer not to, and understand the risks to themselves from German bombers? Is that acceptable? No, it is not, because it subjects everyone in the area to increased risk from bombs.  There is ample evidence that vaccination reduces risk of illness and reduces transmission. Even a moderate decrease in transmission dramatically reduces the infection rate downstream. I don't feel comfortable with some of the draconian measures that have been proposed, but requiring public venues such as restaurants to require proof of vaccine status seems reasonable to me. Imposing a fine of $1,000 for someone who falsely claims vaccinated status in such circumstances seems reasonable to me.

[T. D.]

Got boosted this morning.

Excellent. I will get the booster as soon as I become eligible.
Just below current CDC guidelines at 64 years old, I expect Dec. 1 will be the date the guidelines change.

[Mandryka]

During the blitz of London people were required to observe blackout conditions, covering their windows with heavy curtains or keeping lights off. Suppose a person decides not to cover their windows because they prefer not to, and understand the risks to themselves from German bombers? Is that acceptable? No, it is not, because it subjects everyone in the area to increased risk from bombs.  There is ample evidence that vaccination reduces risk of illness and reduces transmission. Even a moderate decrease in transmission dramatically reduces the infection rate downstream. I don't feel comfortable with some of the draconian measures that have been proposed, but requiring public venues such as restaurants to require proof of vaccine status seems reasonable to me. Imposing a fine of $1,000 for someone who falsely claims vaccinated status in such circumstances seems reasonable to me.

What's happening in Austria goes far beyond passports for large events. It is illegal for an unvaccinated person to go to McDs for a coffee and a slice of pie. It is illegal for an unvaccinated person to go away for the weekend, or drive to the beach for a walk, or go climb a mountain. It is illegal for an unvaccinated person to take his child to the cinema. It is illegal for an unvaccinated person to go to a store to buy a magazine or a CD. It is illegal for an unvaccinated person to visit his dear old grandma.

And the vaccinated population are encouraged to report the illegal behaviour of their unvaccinated neighbours to the police.

Listen to uncle Florestan. He knows - because he comes from a country which was, in very recent history, subject to a totalitarian police state. He knows how the people sleepwalked into it, step by step, one small step at a time, convinced it was a good thing for their safety. He knows that politics is all about controlling the population so as to maximise the profits of global companies. Any opportunity to increase their grip on how the people behave is something these politicians will grab.

And he knows that there's a real danger that we're doing the same.

[André]

Excellent. I will get the booster as soon as I become eligible.
Just below current CDC guidelines at 64 years old, I expect Dec. 1 will be the date the guidelines change.

Same here. A booster shot should be available/allowed after Christmas. Regulations here stipulate that 6 months must have elapsed since shot # 2, which was June 25 in my case.

I got the regular flu shot last week. It was my first ever seasonal flu shot.

[BasilValentine]

Excellent. I will get the booster as soon as I become eligible.
Just below current CDC guidelines at 64 years old, I expect Dec. 1 will be the date the guidelines change.

I too live in "rural upstate NY" and match your age. While taking my mother to a local pharmacy for her flu shot I got a booster shot. I told them I wasn't quite eligible and they didn't care. Said "We have an extra one, step back and roll up your sleeve."

[greg]

Got first shot. Didn't want to, though. Not too happy about it.

[Mirror Image]

Got first shot. Didn't want to, though. Not too happy about it.

Why did you?

[Todd]

What is this CPI?

Committee on Public Information, the propaganda agency of the US Federal Government during the Great War. 

[Florestan]

What's happening in Austria goes far beyond passports for large events. It is illegal for an unvaccinated person to go to McDs for a coffee and a slice of pie. It is illegal for an unvaccinated person to go away for the weekend, or drive to the beach for a walk, or go climb a mountain. It is illegal for an unvaccinated person to take his child to the cinema. It is illegal for an unvaccinated person to go to a store to buy a magazine or a CD. It is illegal for an unvaccinated person to visit his dear old grandma.

And the vaccinated population are encouraged to report the illegal behaviour of their unvaccinated neighbours to the police.

Oh, but that's nothing even remotely like, and nowhere even remotely near, the situation of the Jews in the selfsame Austria in the early 1940s, no, sir, not at all!

Listen to uncle Florestan. He knows - because he comes from a country which was, in very recent history, subject to a totalitarian police state. He knows how the people sleepwalked into it, step by step, one small step at a time, convinced it was a good thing for their safety. He knows that politics is all about controlling the population so as to maximise the profits of global companies. Any opportunity to increase their grip on how the people behave is something these politicians will grab.

And he knows that there's a real danger that we're doing the same.

Thank you very much for this, I couldn't have put it better myself.

I don't expect to be taken seriously, though. What I do expect is to be labelled a conspiracy theorist, an anti-vaxxer and a Trumpist --- and this is also based on what I know.

(I know, for instance, how Communism was presented and taught in schools and universities as a scientifically-based doctrine and therefore it couldn't possibly be opposed but by either anti-science people or practitioners of the wrong kind of science, the bourgeois one.  And I know, for another instance, how the selfsame Communism was greatly concerned with, and working hard for, people's wellness and happiness and therefore only a deranged, egotistic and antisocial person could possibly oppose it --- ncidentally, this is why back then dissenters and opponents could be found both in prisons and psychiatric wards.)

[Florestan]

Committee on Public Information, the propaganda agency of the US Federal Government during the Great War.

I see, thanks. Kind of The Ministry of Truth, right?

[MusicTurner]

We're quickly approaching 4000 registered daily cases in DK, and 3% positive among tests, plus 3-10 daily fatalities. Before the vaccines, 4000 cases could mean up to 40 daily fatalities. A peak period has usually been for a couple of weeks so far, then going down again, yet the new restrictions are probably too soft, though the big increase in testing might also help. I had my first, mild cold/flu during corona in the weekend, after a lot of outdoor work, luckily the PCR was negative.

But regarding armchair politics ... what's not to like?

I'm glad I'm not a responsible politician facing the current dilemmas, especially in countries with more fatalities and low vaccination rates. Saving lives should be the primary thing, but it can also mean political suicide or have future consequences for democracy or civil rights, due to restrictions, accompanying dissatisfaction, etc.

[krummholz]

Got boosted this morning.

Great news Karl!

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Excellent Karl!

Read this story this morning; it broke my heart.  https://www.msn.com/en-us/news/us/three-snow-leopards-die-of-covid-19-at-nebraska-zoo/ar-AAQFMEB

PD

[SimonNZ]

Listen to uncle Florestan. He knows - because he comes from a country which was, in very recent history, subject to a totalitarian police state. He knows how the people sleepwalked into it, step by step, one small step at a time, convinced it was a good thing for their safety. He knows that politics is all about controlling the population so as to maximise the profits of global companies. Any opportunity to increase their grip on how the people behave is something these politicians will grab.

Thank you very much for this, I couldn't have put it better myself.

Is that really an accurate characterization of the rise of authoritarianism in Romania?

Could you really not have put it better?

[Karl Henning]

Pfizer will allow its COVID pill to be made and sold cheaply in poor countries

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Pfizer will allow its COVID pill to be made and sold cheaply in poor countries

Yeah!  Some good news!

PD