USA Politics

[Karl Henning]

     From 2015:

In an emotional interview with TV host Stephen Colbert, US vice president Joe Biden mentioned that he'd found solace in the writing of Danish philosopher Søren Kierkegaard. He said that his wife, Jill Biden, had taped a Kierkegaard quote to the mirror, which read "Faith sees best in the dark."

     Even though I have a degree in guessing from Trump U, I decided to see if Biden might be familiar with Kierkegaard. He is.

Does Better Research Than Huggy Bear.

[Florestan]

In the original language, there's a poetic and Schwung-like quality to his texts. I can't say if this is also present in translations, which I suppose can be very varied.

I suppose it's very difficult to translate it in such a way as to preserve the original features. I've read a few works in Romanian translation and can't say I was very impressed. But who knows, Biden might have even learned Danish in order to read him properly, which would have been yet another intellectually taxing enterprise.

[MusicTurner]

I suppose it's very difficult to translate it in such a way as to preserve the original features. I've read a few works in Romanian translation and can't say I was very impressed. But who knows, Biden might have even learned Danish in order to read him properly, which would have been yet another intellectually taxing enterprise.

He probably didn't, but apparently he likes to quote some of the more well-known Kierkegaard texts, such as in his quite well-orientated, and compared to #45 very ambitious and cultured, speech in Copenhagen 2018:

"As the Danish philosopher, Soren Kierkegaard, famously wrote: "Life can only be understood backwards; but it must be lived forwards.""

(not difficult to translate ... ; https://www.allianceofdemocracies.org/speech-by-joe-biden/ )

And it was not flattery only, he referred to a local scandal as well:

"Recently, investigative journalists discovered more than $20 billion in Russian money laundering through just a couple of banks in the Baltic states and Moldova, almost all of it destined for Western financial institutions, including Danske Bank right here in Denmark."

[Florestan]

My point is this: just because Biden likes to quote Kierkegaard one should not automatically assume he has a profound knowledge of his works, because --- as in the case of any other famous philosopher --- this is something which can be acquired only after years of dilligent study. Even if Biden really had a deep interest in so doing, I doubt that the hustle and bustle of the American politics left him much time for that.

In general I'm very suspicious and skeptical when politicians try to appear cultured and intellectual. I remember that a few years ago Nick Clegg the then president of the British LibDems wrote a piece in The Guardian about how much he loves, and agrees with, Samuel Beckett. Needless to say he was praised to the sky by the British inteligentsia, yet nobody seems to have noticed that if Clegg really thought Beckett was right then he would have had no business running for the office of prime-minister, because absurdity and purposelessness cannot a sensible and effective policy build.

[SimonNZ]

That wasn't your point you liar.

[Florestan]

That wasn't your point you liar.

Subtle, cultured and intellectual, just as it was to be expected from you. Bravo!

[ritter]

Well, OTOH some of us prefer politicians who may even only pretend to be cultured and well-read, to others who take pride  in being anti-intellectual and who display contempt for culture in general.

I find it really surprising (and worrying) that a  candidate for high office in the US (or any other country) is criticised for quoting a well-known thinker of the past. A sign of our times, I suppose

[Florestan]

Well, OTOH some of us prefer politicians who may even only pretend to be cultured and well-read, to others who take pride  in being anti-intellectual and who display contempt for culture in general.

I find it really surprising (and worrying) that a  candidate for high office in the US (or any other country) is criticised for quoting a well-known thinker of the past. A sign of our times, I suppose

That politicians pretend to be cultured and well-read is even more of a sign of our times, dear Rafael. Politicians of yore really were such. This doesn't imply that their policies were wiser. The whole Plato theory about philosopher kings is false.

I don't expect, or wish, that the President or Prime-Minister of Romania have a Ph. D. in Existentialism or be a brilliant essayst. I expect, and wish, that they honestly and conscientiously fulfill their constitutional duties and devise and implement sensible and effective policies for the general good.

[MusicTurner]

My point is this: just because Biden likes to quote Kierkegaard one should not automatically assume he has a profound knowledge of his works, because --- as in the case of any other famous philosopher --- this is something which can be acquired only after years of dilligent study. Even if Biden really had a deep interest in so doing, I doubt that the hustle and bustle of the American politics left him much time for that.

In general I'm very suspicious and skeptical when politicians try to appear cultured and intellectual. I remember that a few years ago Nick Clegg the then president of the British LibDems wrote a piece in The Guardian about how much he loves, and agrees with, Samuel Beckett. Needless to say he was praised to the sky by the British inteligentsia, yet nobody seems to have noticed that if Clegg really thought Beckett was right then he would have had no business running for the office of prime-minister, because absurdity and purposelessness cannot a sensible and effective policy build.

1) Can't say I in any way prefer the opposite, a demonstrative lack of culture and/or excessive vulgarity, like #45, or ... Lukashenko . A healthy dose of cultural upbringing is essential, IMHO.

2) In terms of Beckett, the absurdity and tragedy of our existence is a pretty basic human experience, that is good to know about and reflect on, it might even lead to less superficial attitudes too. It's not necessarily a manifest for passiveness or the immoral, it can be a point of reference in various ways. I'm sure Beckett upheld logic in his own life too, and he rejected suicide. In fact, Beckett has been said to be descriptive, and to render modern fatigue and disgust
("I am not a philosopher. One can only speak of what is in front of him, and that now is simply the mess"), where Sartre (who liked Waiting for Godot a lot, just as Beckett loved La Nausee) formulates strategy.

That politicians pretend to be cultured and well-read is even more of a sign of our times, dear Rafael. Politicians of yore really were such. This doesn't imply that their policies were wiser. The whole Plato theory about philosopher kings is false.

I don't expect, or wish, that the President or Prime-Minister of Romania have a Ph. D. in Existentialism or be a brilliant essayst. I expect, and wish, that they honestly and conscientiously fulfill their constitutional duties and devise and implement sensible and effective policies for the general good.

The opposite trend is the worrying one now.

[ritter]

That politicians pretend to be cultured and well-read is even more of a sign of our times, dear Rafael. Politicians of yore really were such. This doesn't imply that their policies were wiser. The whole Plato theory about philosopher kings is false.

I don't expect, or wish, that the President or Prime-Minister of Romania have a Ph. D. in Existentialism or be a brilliant essayst. I expect, and wish, that they honestly and conscientiously fulfill their constitutional duties and devise and implement sensible and effective policies for the general good.

Of course what you say is the politicians' primary duty, but upholding and promoting respect for  cultural and intellectual values is IMHO part of those duties.

[SimonNZ]

Subtle, cultured and intellectual, just as it was to be expected from you. Bravo!

You're a liar and you know you're a liar.

How does that feel?

[drogulus]

     

In general I'm very suspicious and skeptical when politicians try to appear cultured and intellectual.

     That's how I am with politicians who claim knowledge of invisible extraterrestrial beings.

[Karl Henning]

My point is this: just because Biden likes to quote Kierkegaard one should not automatically assume he has a profound knowledge of his works, because --- as in the case of any other famous philosopher --- this is something which can be acquired only after years of dilligent study. Even if Biden really had a deep interest in so doing, I doubt that the hustle and bustle of the American politics left him much time for that.

No argument with any of that.  I'd say Biden was sharing something which means a great deal to him, rather than any pretension.

[Karl Henning]

     
     That's how I am with politicians who claim knowledge of invisible extraterrestrial beings.

Trump's faults are many, but I do not recall that being one of them.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I find it really surprising (and worrying) that a  candidate for high office in the US (or any other country) is criticised for quoting a well-known thinker of the past. A sign of our times, I suppose

+1

[Florestan]

You're a liar and you know you're a liar.

Brilliant. Such sagacity, such insight, such elegance. You surpass yourself, really. Wow! Exceptional!

[Todd]

Brilliant. Such sagacity, such insight, such elegance. You surpass yourself, really. Wow! Exceptional!

It is typical of deep thoughts found on this forum.  So deep.

TD:

Biden draws highest TV ratings of Democratic convention, but down from 2016

Super-Creepy 46 can't even muster Hillary's numbers.  I very strongly suspect that won't be reflected in the election results, but it will be funny as hell if it is.

[Florestan]

A healthy dose of cultural upbringing is essential, IMHO.

Essential for what?

Nicolae Iorga (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolae_Iorga) was a brilliant Romanian polymath, an intellectual giant of international calibre, one of the most cultured and well-read persons in his time in the whole world. He was prime-minister in 1931-32 and his government was a disastruous fiasco, a strong contender for the worst Romanian government ever.

[Todd]

Essential for what?

Nothing.  It's a platitudinous assertion.

[MusicTurner]

Essential for what?

Nicolae Iorga (https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nicolae_Iorga) was a brilliant Romanian polymath, an intellectual giant of international calibre, one of the most cultured and well-read persons in his time in the whole world. He was prime-minister in 1931-32 and his government was a disastruous fiasco, a strong contender for the worst Romanian government ever.

Of course, finding a case that failed isn't difficult, just like finding examples of narrow-minded leaders that failed isn't.
For example, decision-makers lacking historical or societal background knowledge, or cutting expenses say in the educational and the cultural sector, based on ignorance or antipathies, will have negative effects. Especially if such governments strengthen their own power to do so.