USA Politics

[krummholz]

Well, Biden won't move the country "further toward socialism." He is a firm centrist corporatist. That's the problem! We know this by looking at his long political career and his current rethoric. He rejects most social democratic ideas of the progressives. He is FAR from a socialist. Biden is actually a moderate Republican, but the Republicans have moved so far right... Of course socialism would work in the US in areas where "socialism" works elsewhere such as fire department. Surely you don't say the fire department doesn't work in the in the US and should be totally privatized? The US needs to move left, a lot. That doesn't mean socialism. It means becoming more like Nordic countries which have great mixture of capitalism and socialism (social democracy) and kick the ass of most other countries including the US.

Agreed about Biden - he's a moderate, period. People who are concerned about the politics of his ticket are more concerned about Harris, and the very real possibility that Biden could be forced by health issues, mental fitness, etc. to resign at some point during his term. Of course Trump wants to paint him as a socialist, or a puppet of the socialist wing, but that hasn't stuck.

Moving the U.S. to the left will happen when it's time. It isn't time yet. A microcosm of what could happen is going on now in my corner of Vermont. The college town I live in is very progressive, but the surrounding countryside is decidedly farther to the right. There has always been a tension between transplants like me, and old guard Vermonters. We have a Republican governor who was lambasted by the latter after signing Vermont's first real piece of gun control legislation. This happened in the wake of an aborted school shooting in a small rural town near Rutland. Now we have had a rush of incidents where BLM signs and rainbow flags were stolen off of lawns and porches. All this was inevitable I think: you had people with an established lifestyle, who had lived in the state for generations. Then people moved in from the big East Coast cities, starting with the back to the land movement in the 70s. They now outnumber the original Vermonters by a wide margin. A Red state has turned decidedly Blue by force of numbers. The old guard does not have the numbers to resist at the ballot box, but many are very angry and are resorting to illegal acts.

If the concerns of less visible people are ignored, they will find a way to make themselves heard. The backlash will be unpleasant to say the least. That is part of the reason we have Trump. Biden understands the need for compromise and bipartisanship. IMO that is what we need now, not radical change, if the U.S. is not to be torn apart.

[Karl Henning]

     I don't think the debates need to be called off from a "view from nowhere". How a participant chooses to sabotage the ostensible reason for the debate and attack the moderator and the election is good information to have, and I'm not bothered by the redundancy of most of it. Many people don't tune in to politics until quite late in the process.

     

Yes.  Let Trump be the dumpster fire in front of the camera that he is.  Let him continue to aggressively dissuade people from voting for him.

[Karl Henning]

Well, we shall see: 'The Commission on Presidential Debates announced Wednesday that it would add "additional structure" to the remaining faceoffs between President Trump and Democratic nominee Joe Biden after Tuesday night's chaotic clash in Cleveland, saying "more orderly discussion is needed."'

[Karl Henning]

95 minutes of proof that the nation has slipped into irredeemable darkness.

[greg]

95 minutes of proof that the nation has slipped into irredeemable darkness.

Heavy lol.
So tons of pessimism after Trump's next four years are over, if he wins?

It was a funny disaster, though.

What I don't care for, especially, is Trump constantly doing quick personal attacks and being too aggressive, reminds me of how Herman posts. It's an emotional appeal, if people see someone on the attack while the other person is defending, it looks like the one attacking is winning.

Taking one thing at a time is a better approach.

[Todd]

What I don't care for, especially, is Trump constantly doing quick personal attacks and being too aggressive, reminds me of how Herman posts. It's an emotional appeal, if people see someone on the attack while the other person is defending, it looks like the one attacking is winning.

A keen observation.

Fortunately, there are two more presidential debates, and the Pence-Harris (hopeful) smackdown to keep people online, posting and tweeting. 

[Kontrapunctus]

Sound proof booths.

I like that and it seems feasible. Each candidate's mic should be muted while the other is speaking.

[Herman]

Chances are Trump would walk over to Biden's mike and keep talking.

Kind of similar to the way he started to hover behind Hillary.

This man is truly a nutcase.

[BasilValentine]

What I don't care for, especially, is Trump constantly doing quick personal attacks and being too aggressive ... . It's an emotional appeal, if people [idiots] see someone on the attack while the other person is defending, it looks like the one attacking is winning.

That's better ^ ^ ^.

[T. D.]

https://www.bbc.com/news/election-us-2020-54359993
Trump tells far right to 'stand down' amid white supremacy row

"Oh, so people reacted negatively to my shit? I'll just lie and claim I meant the reverse." 

[milk]

Biden should have said, "you're a child. You can't control yourself. You have no self-control. You have no dignity."

[drogulus]

Biden should have said, "you're a child. You can't control yourself. You have no self-control. You have no dignity."

     I agree that would have been ideal. It's also how he's viewed by most people who watched the debate.

     

     Where do I sign up and can I have some?
     

[71 dB]

Sound proof booths.

Padded rooms have good sound insulation...  0:)

[drogulus]

     

     Chomp

[Herman]

Russian trolls get paid to post these talking points; you seem to be doing this for free.

[krummholz]

Blah blah blah.

Biden looked liked an old feeble man [...]

He did, and I have little doubt that that was Trump's strategy, to make Biden appear like a senile dotard. Because he  knew that Biden has a lifelong problem with stuttering, and he knows how to push the right buttons to bring that problem to the fore. What you saw, almost certainly, was Biden struggling mightily with that problem, but not having enough CPU cycles left over under Trump's constant assaults to organize his thoughts properly.

But the libs already know this. You're voting for a Kamala Harris presidency because old Joe has no intention of staying in office due to his....... cognitive decline.

More than "libs" are voting for Biden. Some of us are moderates (including several prominent lifelong Republicans), and we're well aware that because of Biden's age, a Harris presidency is a strong possibility from some point forward in Biden's first term. Why should that be cause to vote for Trump instead? Should we be afraid because Kamala Harris is a black woman? Because she is somewhat to the left of Biden politically? At this point I will vote even for someone whose politics I disagree with (somewhat), to have a competent and humane leader in the White House. After 4 years, one thing we can be sure of is that that Donald Trump is neither humane nor competent.

[71 dB]

Russian trolls get paid to post these talking points; you seem to be doing this for free.

How do we know Dowder does it for free? What if Ben Shapiro is his boss?

[71 dB]

Agreed about Biden - he's a moderate, period. People who are concerned about the politics of his ticket are more concerned about Harris, and the very real possibility that Biden could be forced by health issues, mental fitness, etc. to resign at some point during his term. Of course Trump wants to paint him as a socialist, or a puppet of the socialist wing, but that hasn't stuck.

Harris is perhaps just a little left of Biden, but not much. That's one reason why Harris was a suitable choice for Biden's VP. Black, woman and not much different in politics (safe for the oligarchs). Trump attacks Biden as if he was Biden AND Bernie. It doesn't work well, because Biden was the VP for eight years and the guns were not taken away. Trump had good political instincts four years ago. Not this time. He has lost the "outsider" advantage in the eyes of people. He is now an "insider" and the country is in chaos on his watch, not "great again" as he promised.

Moving the U.S. to the left will happen when it's time. It isn't time yet.

Why isn't it time yet? It has been time for decades! The oligarchs just want to keep robbing everyone blind! Isn't the income inequality huge enough? Isn't enough Americans dying because they don't have access to basic healthcare? There is no excuse to delay progress that is badly needed. Now the fear is if Trump fills Ginsburg's seat the US might move to a new Lochner era and pretty much all progress will be stopped for 30-40 years while workers will have practically zero rights. So is it time for medicare for all in 2050? Or 2060? Meanwhile millions of American will die for now having the healthcare they need. What is the country waiting for?

If the concerns of less visible people are ignored, they will find a way to make themselves heard. The backlash will be unpleasant to say the least. That is part of the reason we have Trump. Biden understands the need for compromise and bipartisanship. IMO that is what we need now, not radical change, if the U.S. is not to be torn apart.

Decades of compromise and bipartisanship made president Trump possible and without radical change there will be more Trump-like presidents. The left and right can be united in economic issues because on both sides the workers get screwed by the current system. There are things the left and right (the top 1 % excluded) and agree about, for example ending the wars. Unfortunately Biden is not known for ending wars. He is known for starting wars and serving the military industry complex, even more so that Trump!

Biden has to win, because Trump must be removed from office, but Biden's presidency will solve almost NOTHING. It's four years of status quo.

[drogulus]

Harris is perhaps just a little left of Biden, but not much. That's one reason why Harris was a suitable choice for Biden's VP. Black, woman and not much different in politics (safe for the oligarchs). Trump attacks Biden as if he was Biden AND Bernie. It doesn't work well, because Biden was the VP for eight years and the guns were not taken away. Trump had good political instincts four years ago. Not this time. He has lost the "outsider" advantage in the eyes of people. He is now an "insider" and the country is in chaos on his watch, not "great again" as he promised.

     I think you have it mostly right. What motivates primary voters often comes down to their perceptions of what other voters will accept, the notorious beauty contest factor. This will appear to be a kind of "inner oligarch".

[drogulus]

     Trump tells you what he's thinking best when he doesn't know he's doing it, like when he wants Biden to take a drug test, more "no puppet...".