Topic: Should Politics Be Banned From GMG?

[Mirror Image]

A music forum which has an extensive section devoted to "anything, music excepted" and populated by people whose interests cover a wide range of topics besides music. Limiting the talk to music only, or even primarily, is downright impossible and from my point of view not even desirable. If I may paraphrase Mahler, a forum should be like the world, it must contain everything. 

I never refuted the fact that the members here have a wide range of interests and those interests should be allowed to be discussed, but when it comes to politics this seems to bring out the worst in people and this is something I find rather unfortunate and why I’m not onboard with those types of threads. I don’t have anything personal against anyone here who wants to discuss politics, but more times than not, what I find is some nasty, dirt throwing contest instead of a discussion of ideas and beliefs. Also, what usually happens when you have two people on two different sides of the political coin is it comes to basically ‘we’ll have to agree to disagree.’ In other words, no minds will be changed and no lightbulbs have been turned on. In my mind, it’s just a waste of time, but if people want to do engage in these types of discussions, then more power to them. I created this thread to get an idea of where the forum stands on the issue.

[k a rl h e nn i ng]

It doesn't even affect your participation in that much-maligned political thread, Karl. 

Perhaps not in ways perceptible to you.

[LKB]

I voted " no ".

Any subject/thread could conceivably devolve into pettiness and vitriol, it need not involve politics.

From the standpoint of convenience, it's much more desirable not to have to jump around to any number of sites because l feel like discussing politics ( or Mahler, Arecibo, SpaceX, aviation, WWll naval history... ).

Most of us present ourselves with civility; for instances where someone temporarily loses the handle on their adulthood, the moderators have the requisite tools at their disposal. Trolling, of course, should not be tolerated once identified.

Things will eventually quiet down, l am sure.

 ,

LKB

[k a rl h e nn i ng]

I voted " no ".

Any subject/thread could conceivably devolve into pettiness and vitriol, it need not involve politics.

From the standpoint of convenience, it's much more desirable not to have to jump around to any number of sites because l feel like discussing politics ( or Mahler, Arecibo, SpaceX, aviation, WWll naval history... ).

Most of us present ourselves with civility; for instances where someone temporarily loses the handle on their adulthood, the moderators have the requisite tools at their disposal. Trolling, of course, should not be tolerated once identified.

Things will eventually quiet down, l am sure.

 ,

LKB

Howbeit I voted yes, otherwise I agree on all points.

[André]

Howbeit I voted yes, otherwise I agree on all points.

Same here.

[SimonNZ]

Are we talking here about just the Trump thread? Or also the Brexit, Coronavirus and unimportant news threads?

I'll second whoever said it would just be nice if they didn't appear on the "recent posts" feed, as one exchange can take over the whole list.

[Gurn Blanston]

Are we talking here about just the Trump thread? Or also the Brexit, Coronavirus and unimportant news threads?

I'll second whoever said it would just be nice if they didn't appear on the "recent posts" feed, as one exchange can take over the whole list.

How so?  There can have been 50 new posts in a thread since my last time here, but I only get 1 notice in my list... ?

[SimonNZ]

I think you're referring there to the "show new replies to my posts", whereas I'm referring to the "recent posts" feed on the homepage, the one you'll see if you're a newbie considering the forum.

[amw]

At this point I try to stay out of the politics threads because they rarely if ever discuss political issues that are actually interesting to me (it's all Trump this and Biden that), and I do think it would be nice if they ceased to exist, but fruitless, as people on here would just find other and less easily containable avenues to express their psychopathy.

In addition, art is inherently political, so you can't exactly separate the two. It's just that nowadays we no longer feel particularly emotional when talking about Louis XIV or Napoleon Bonaparte or the Franco-Prussian War or whatever other context a particular work of art was created in. (I mean, maybe I'm wrong and there are people on here who feel deep rage every time we discuss Beethoven's Eroica because Napoleon killed their great-great-grandparents or whatever.)

[Gurn Blanston]

I think you're referring there to the "show new replies to my posts", whereas I'm referring to the "recent posts" feed on the homepage, the one you'll see if you're a newbie considering the forum.

Ah. Yes, that would be right, although in truth, I have never used it...

[Dungeon Master]

When I voted, the YES votes were up 10 to 4.

Now it's 10 to 14.

NO WAY.

This poll is rigged. Plenty of illegal bots have been voting here. They stole the election.
Therefore I declare that the YES camp has won BIG and the politics section should be removed.

Postal votes coming in late.

[71 dB]

When I voted, the YES votes were up 10 to 4.

Now it's 10 to 14.

NO WAY.

This poll is rigged. Plenty of illegal bots have been voting here. They stole the election.
Therefore I declare that the YES camp has won BIG and the politics section should be removed.

I voted online! I didn't want to catch Covid-19 by going to a crowded polling station! 

[Dungeon Master]

OK, so I've read thru these arguments both for and against.

A summary (feel free to correct or expand)

Against:

• Its a music forum, politics doesn't fit
• Politics actually obscures (eg the Recent Posts) the primary purpose of the forum ie music
• Politics brings out the worst in people. Insults fly from members who wouldn't otherwise insult
• Lots of extra work for moderators as a consequence of the above
• Political discussion may discourage new members from joining a music forum

For:

• We discuss lots of non-musical topics, why make politics special by banning it?
• Politics is confined to the Diner, a place that is easy to avoid if you so wish
• GMG has a set of Guidelines. As long as members abide by these rules, we should have free discussion of anything
• Some members like discussing politics
• If you don't like it, simply don't read it

I am inclined to the "For" group. However, I do recognise that politics can bring out the worst in people and that makes for lots of extra work for the moderators.

My Suggestions to placate both sides:

• An extra moderator (volunteers please?) to tend the Diner section only
• A zero-tolerance rule for any transgression
• Increasing the post-count before members can post in the Diner

I am open to further discussion, or suggestions.

Rob

[71 dB]

Valid points.
And if someone joins this board because of these topics, well, I would find that weird, too.
Isn't it strange though, that the death of Sean Connery and 'darn cats' do not lead to personal attacks, disrespect, mocking and trolling?

EVERY board has "Last movie you watched" thread.  I joined this board to tell the World Elgar is the greatest composer in history. Let's just say it didn't go well... 

I would have been attacked had I expressed my opinion that Roger Moore is my favorite Bond actor, but I chose to keep silent to respect Sean Connery's (who is my good second) memory.

Maybe Fauré and Autechre are not of interest to me. But others might be very interested. You and I are not the only members here.

I can understand you are not into Autechre, because this is after all a classical music forum and Autechre happens to be very demanding and difficult/complex electronic music, but no love for Fauré? One of the finest French composers?

Besides that: I can get inspired by posts about music, and what other members here are enjoying. That's one of the main reasons I became a member here.

Well, maybe my music posts inspire someone. I don't know...

We have been through this before, but if politics is the main reason for you to participate on a music board, and you really think that other members have no interest in what you say or think about music at all, then I would suggest that you join a political board. To be honest, if I had the same ideas about music and talking about music as you, I would never ever think of joining a music board. No offense meant by the way.

I came here a decade before Trump started running for president. I came here to tell about Elgar's greatness, vibrational fields and all, but I was told I know nothing. I came because of music, but the years teached me people are not listening to what I have to say about music. Then Trump happened and it changed the game completely. I got hooked on the US politics. This time people read my posts and actually responded!

Now that Biden happened, my interest in the US politics is declining. If you look at the US politics thread, my activity there is not huge anymore. So, maybe I return posting about music and getting mostly ignored or mocked for being ignorant...

[k a rl h e nn i ng]

Postal votes coming in late.

STOP THE STEAL!

[71 dB]

• Increasing the post-count before members can post in the Diner

I am open to further discussion, or suggestions.

Rob

asking for big post count before one can post in "Last movie you watched" thread sounds silly. Why does politics threads have to be in Diner section? Why not create a heavily moderated section for these few sensitive/controversial topics?

[SimonNZ]

Can a longer serving member than me say if there was a problem with political threads before 2015?

[Brewski]

Can a longer serving member than me say if there was a problem with political threads before 2015?

I don't recall any problems of this severity, but then, I have always tended to stay out of those threads. Methinks it is yet another symptom of the atmosphere encouraged by T***p, who is constantly combative. He really enjoys, sadistically, seeing people fight each other.

--Bruce

[SimonNZ]

That is my suspicion, also.

I'll reiterate what I said on page one: I think this will taper off quickly in the very near future without anyone needing to make any sweeping changes.

[Brewski]

That is my suspicion, also.

I'll reiterate what I said on page one: I think this will taper off quickly in the very near future without anyone needing to make any sweeping changes.

Yes, hoping you are correct.

--Bruce