Europe at War

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I was still living there in 2010. At that time basically nothing was blocked; any source of information you wanted was available, either in print or on the Internet. From what I've heard, the situation has been deteriorating since I left.

I don't think anyone has mentioned yet one of the Russian army's biggest problems: draft dodging. They still have a conscript army, and every year, more than half of those called don't show up. The most common way out is to bribe a doctor to give you a bad health record. Other methods of dodging include leaving your city (or country) during the call-up period so they can't find you, and of course the time-honored method of getting an educational deferment. The Russian army is such a tough place to be that many (most?) Russians consider you to be stupid or a loser if you have a way out and don't take it. Yes, Russian patriotism can be loud, but it can also be flimsy and brittle, depending on the situation.

Thank you for your input.  It's nice to hear some observations from someone who actually lived there.  May I ask how long you lived there for and why you went there?

PD

[Harry]

The Ukrainian people is assassinated on-air and Ukrainian cities are shelled to the ground --- yet Patriarch Kirill of Russia's most pressing problem is... the gay parades in the West. This man is not a follower of Christ by any stretch of imagination, he is a minion of Satan.

I completely agree!

[Todd]

AP Source: Biden to ban Russian oil imports over Ukraine war

Maduro Signals Interest in Better Venezuela, US Relations

Coincidental timing, I am sure.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

Thank you for your input.  It's nice to hear some observations from someone who actually lived there.  May I ask how long you lived there for and why you went there?

I lived there 2005-2012. By educational background I'm a Slavic linguist (actually studied in Kiev way back when), so it made sense that I would go there. It's where I got started on my current career, legal and business translation, which has unfortunately been decimated by Covid.

[Florestan]

I lived there 2005-2012. By educational background I'm a Slavic linguist (actually studied in Kiev way back when),

So you speak both Russian and Ukrainian, I presume. Hearing Zelensky's speeches I got the impression that Ukrainian is close to Polish in accent and pronunciation and close to Russian in vocabulary. Am I right?

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

So you speak both Russian and Ukrainian, I presume. Hearing Zelensky's speeches I got the impression that Ukrainian is close to Polish in accent and pronunciation and close to Russian in vocabulary. Am I right?

Actually it's the other way around. Ukrainian is an East Slavic language, so the phonology is closer to Russian. However, due to a long period of Polish rule it has a huge number of words of Polish origin. If you know both Russian and Polish, you essentially already have a good passive knowledge of Ukrainian.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

I lived there 2005-2012. By educational background I'm a Slavic linguist (actually studied in Kiev way back when), so it made sense that I would go there. It's where I got started on my current career, legal and business translation, which has unfortunately been decimated by Covid.

I see that (with the help of Wiki) that the Slavic language tree is split between East, West and South.  Must admit, I'd love to learn Czech (would like to visit it and the Slovak republics).  How easy is it to understand Russian for Ukrainians?  I've gotten the feeling that a lot of the Ukrainians speak Russian too from the news.

And very sorry to hear about your business struggles at the moment.  Have you had to add on a secondary job due to Covid? 

And do you still keep in touch with any Ukrainian friends/mentors from your former school days?

PD

[JBS]

Not really. If he gets kicked out of office by his former friends, he's no longer the head of anything very much. At which point, the guarantee that he won't be extradited from whatever country he chooses for his 'retirement' would be an attractive prospect. And the ICC doesn't particularly matter in this regard: it's the guarantee of non-pursuit, by anyone, for anything, that might sway his mind (but probably won't).

This assumes that Putin gets kicked out of office, and not Putin's corpse.  I suspect Putin himself does not share that assumption.

I can easily envisage a show trial arranged by the new regime that's meant to put all the blame on Putin and select associates, but deflect blame from the leaders of the new regime.  Such things after all have happened before in Moscow.

[Florestan]

I completely agree!

Contrast Kirill with Patriarch Daniel of Romania who publicly and explicitly denounced ""the Russian aggression against the sovereign and independent Ukraine."

Morevover, the spokesperson of the Romanian Orthodox Church lambasted Kirill in no uncertain terms, albeit not nominating hm personally.

I think that Patriarch Bartholomew of Constantinople should excommunicate Kirill and urge all Orthodox Churches worldwide to follow suit.

[Florestan]

I can easily envisage a show trial arranged by the new regime that's meant to put all the blame on Putin and select associates, but deflect blame from the leaders of the new regime.  Such things after all have happened before in Moscow.

Only too true but then again, fingers crossed. Even that would be much better and acceptable than what we have now.

[Florestan]

Food for thought.

You do not, I see, quite understand the Russian public. Its character is determined by the condition of Russian society, which contains, imprisoned within it, fresh forces seething and bursting to break out; but crushed by heavy repression and unable to escape, they produce gloom, bitter depression, apathy. Only in literature, in spite of our Tartar censorship, there is still some life and forward movement. This is why the writer's calling enjoys such respect among us, why literary success is so easy here even when there is little talent. ... This is why, especially among us, universal attention is paid to every manifestation of any so-called liberal trend, no matter how poor the writer's gifts. ... The public ... sees in Russian writers its only leaders, defenders and saviours from dark autocracy, Orthodoxy and the national way of life. ...

—Vissarion Belinsky

Open Letter to Gogol, July 15, 1847

[Spotted Horses]

This assumes that Putin gets kicked out of office, and not Putin's corpse.  I suspect Putin himself does not share that assumption.

I can easily envisage a show trial arranged by the new regime that's meant to put all the blame on Putin and select associates, but deflect blame from the leaders of the new regime.  Such things after all have happened before in Moscow.

What happened when Yeltsin made a hash of it? Putin, who no one had ever heard of, was appointed Prime Minister, within two months Yeltsin resigns, Putin is appointed President, his first act is to close all corruption investigations of Yeltsin, the second Chechen war, the election is moved up so no one has time to campaign, Putin is elected president. Yeltsin lives happily ever after, until his alcoholism catches up with him. If the oligarchs and the military decide Putin has outlived his usefulness I suspect a similar scenario. Actually the latest revision of the Russian constitution already includes provisions which prevent Putin from being held legally responsible for anything that happened when he was in office. Maybe Putin will actually get to ride in his super-Yacht.

[drogulus]

Now you really are being disingenuous. From the Russian perspective, what makes NATO a threat? Could it be it's seen as the European arm of US armed forces- the US are certainly the biggest partner at 41% ?

https://www.nationalworld.com/news/what-is-biggest-army-in-the-world-size-and-strength-of-uk-ukraine-russia-nato-and-china-armies-compared-3584043

     The real national security threat to Russia is China. Putin and his fellow fantasists are projecting their own hostility to the West onto the West itself.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

I see that (with the help of Wiki) that the Slavic language tree is split between East, West and South.  Must admit, I'd love to learn Czech (would like to visit it and the Slovak republics).  How easy is it to understand Russian for Ukrainians?  I've gotten the feeling that a lot of the Ukrainians speak Russian too from the news.

Czech is about the hardest Slavic language, at least in my experience.

Ukraine is basically a bilingual country, with Russian predominating in the bigger cities and Ukrainian in the countryside and the western part (Galicia). However, what a lot of people speak on a daily basis is actually this:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Surzhyk

And very sorry to hear about your business struggles at the moment.  Have you had to add on a secondary job due to Covid? 

The initial lockdown period was the worst: no business trips, courts in Europe closed, everything dried up. Things have improved since then, but it's still not back to what it was, so I'm having to pursue other gigs in addition.

And do you still keep in touch with any Ukrainian friends/mentors from your former school days?

Not really, since it's been so long. Some years ago I discovered that one of my teachers in Kiev is now living in Philadelphia and running his own business. I've tried to get in contact with him, so far without success.

Mainly, I know a lot of post-Soviet people here in the Chicago area, most of them newish acquaintances. The lady whose house we had dinner at last Saturday is or was a citizen of Belarus, with a Russian father and a Ukrainian mother. A very typical situation in that part of the world, which underscores the fratricidal character of the current war.

[Florestan]

     Putin and his fellow fantasists are projecting their own hostility to the West onto the West itself.

Unfortunately, this is a much older Russian mindset than Putin. Alas, even Dostoevsky and Solzhenitsyn succumbed to it. Russian / Slavophilic messianism is perhaps the main historical obstacle between any genuine friendship & cooperation of Russia and the West. And as you say, it's not the West's fault, not even by a long stretch of imagination, Napoleon and Hitler notwithstanding. Peter the Great and Lenin / Stalin predate them by decades.

[JBS]

Unfortunately, this is a much older Russian mindset than Putin. Alas, even Dostoevsky and Solzhenitsyn succumbed to it. Russian / Slavophilic messianism is perhaps the main historical obstacle between any genuine friendship & cooperation of Russia and the West. And as you say, it's not the West's fault, not even by a long stretch of imagination, Napoleon and Hitler notwithstanding. Peter the Great and Lenin / Stalin predate them by decades.

Peter did have to deal with Charles of Sweden.

I noticed on a map tweeted out by the UK Ministry of Defence that Poltava is well within the boundaries of modern Ukraine.

[Florestan]

Peter did have to deal with Charles of Sweden.

Yes but that was just business as usual back then, not any kind of the Russian/Slavophilic-Civilizational-Zero-Sum-War-Against-the-West which the scelerate Putin and his minions are playing now and which, unfortunately, even Dostoesvky and Solzhenitsyn seem to have envisaged.

I noticed on a map tweeted out by the UK Ministry of Defence that Poltava is well within the boundaries of modern Ukraine.

I wonder how many future generations will have to pass until Ukrainians will stop hating Russians...

A rhetorical question, actually. I know of no nation under the sun which, bordering Russia and given the opportunity, did not choose the West, ie NATO and EU.

[Florestan]

Food for thought.

There is no European country in which the vast majority of the people is not absolutely indifferent to the rights which are the objects and desire of concern only to the liberals.

Nikolay Chernyshevsky

[JBS]

Food for thought.

There is no European country in which the vast majority of the people is not absolutely indifferent to the rights which are the objects and desire of concern only to the liberals.

Nikolay Chernyshevsky

That word turns a dismissive observation into a meaningless tautology.

[SimonNZ]

Food for thought.

There is no European country in which the vast majority of the people is not absolutely indifferent to the rights which are the objects and desire of concern only to the liberals.

Nikolay Chernyshevsky

There's a few things lost in translation or lost out of context there.

Should "indifferent" be "take for granted"? And which "rights" are we talking about?

And how is it liberals win popular votes if the "vast majority" are indifferent to their "desires".

More importantly: how exactly does this relate to the topic of the thread? Recent events surely contradict that floating quote.