Europe at War

[MusicTurner]

It has been seen, but mostly to a much lesser extent. The Catalonian separatists and some corona + yellow vests incidents are among the recent examples. My impression is that there were often violent demonstrators among them.

[Todd]

Although many people --- I'm not talking about anyone here --- probably believe that the thousands arrested in Russia for protesting againts the war and the regime are rotting in sinister dungeons, the truth is they are released a few hours after, or the next day. And honestly, the videos show that the Russian police generally acts with less brutality than the Western police forces which acted against anti-restriction protesters last autumn by setting dogs on them and beating them until they dropped in the streets.

This calls into question the veracity of some Western press reporting, and maybe even exposes bias in said organizations.  That cannot be.

I'm not saying it's okay, just that arresting / brutalizing / fining people for being in manifest disagreement with government's policies is not exclusive to Russia, which is a dictatorship. Western democracies practice it as well.

Who has time for facts?

[drogulus]

     Western reporters are constantly calling into question the veracity of Western reports, which is how we know about them. I like that.

I see the political divide as more "collectivist vs individualist" myself.

     That's a problem for people trying to figure out whether public policy is good or bad. Medicare for me is sufficiently individual, for thee is collectivist. The principle is enshrined in the motto "Keep your dirty Big Government hands off my Social Security!".

[Todd]

Ukraine's Drones Are Wreaking Havoc On The Russian Army

At least one Turkish arms manufacturer is having a good war.  Should bode well for peace in other countries in the coming years.

[drogulus]

     

That's not really always true, in the broader picture. More often than not US mainstream reporters anyway are overtaken by facts pointed out by some third party. It has happened so often that the public trust in US mainstream media is at an all-time low. They're more despised than Congress. They're seen as activists with cameras and by-lines, not disinterested purveyors of information.

That's more of a caricature though. People who have been paying into Social Security for decades on the assumption that they would get some sort of return could have every right to say that. It doesn't mean Social Security is a shining example of "individualism" (and it would take some impressive mental gymnastics to claim that it is). Anyway to call a more or less libertarian view "far right" (as I've heard it and various other less-than-leftish ideas called) could be true only if everything to the right of Mao is "far right".

     I don't care what Social Security is a shining example of. The individual vs collectivist notions serve to convert pragmatic decisions into spurious quarrels about high principle. Note the quarrels are not designed to be decided. That's why terms like individual and collective are used. There's nothing much to decide about that stuff.

[drogulus]

     Great fortunes will be made rebuilding Ukraine. It's probably not the reason Putin invaded, though.

[Herman]

And so a topic entitled "Europe at War" veers off into the standard yawn-inducing discussion of American libertarianism.

[Karl Henning]

And so a topic entitled "Europe at War" veers off into the standard yawn-inducing discussion of American libertarianism.

Color me surprised. NOT.

[MusicTurner]

And so a topic entitled "Europe at War" veers off into the standard yawn-inducing discussion of American libertarianism.

[Florestan]

the main topic here is not US politics. [...] Any possible further discussion on the US specifically, should be on the US politics thread.

Hear, hear!

[Gurn Blanston]

And so a topic entitled "Europe at War" veers off into the standard yawn-inducing discussion of American libertarianism.

Well, I'm fixin' to start deleting shit pretty soon, so the 'veer' better come pretty quick. 

 

[drogulus]

Perhaps some of those going to Georgia have social networks and expect to just mingle in. Obviously, there are also strong anti-Russian/Putin feelings in Georgia.

     A Russian in Tibilisi noted the anti-Russian feelings but says the most immediate cause of friction is the rising rental costs in the capital.

[Todd]

Factbox: Who is still buying Russian crude oil

Germany, the EU's top Russian crude buyer, and the Netherlands, a trading hub, have warned against hasty decisions that could raise energy prices further and leave some refineries idle.

[MusicTurner]

An apparent leak from the Russian ministry of defense tells of 9861 Russian fatalities, and almost 16200 wounded. In one month. Now quoted more widely, including by Komsolmolskaya Pravda. Still not 100% sure though, and the leaked info has now been hidden. It is a very high number, and higher than the US estimate.

EDIT: there are now claims of hacking, as regards those numbers.

[greg]

     A Russian in Tibilisi noted the anti-Russian feelings but says the most immediate cause of friction is the rising rental costs in the capital.

Yeah, would be surprised if you had the same source, but hearing that, too.

[LKB]

So this was making the rounds today:

https://www.newsweek.com/russias-elite-want-putin-out-successor-mind-ukraine-intel-chief-1689830

I'm dubious, but even if it's bunk the Ukrainians have nothing to lose by exploiting the obvious premise.

[The new erato]

An apparent leak from the Russian ministry of defense tells of 9861 Russian fatalities, and almost 16200 wounded. In one month. Now quoted more widely, including by Komsolmolskaya Pravda. Still not 100% sure though, and the leaked info has now been hidden. It is a very high number, and higher than the US estimate.

EDIT: there are now claims of hacking, as regards those numbers.

I think the numbers may be correct, but that this was never intended for publishing. Not too far off western estimates of 7000 dead and 20.000 wounded a few days ago, but still far below Ukrainian claims.

A glitch, or maybe an intended leak by somebody in the organization (some of whom will know the true story behind the war), in which case a claim of hacking is perfectly logical. Journalists and the security services know, and there have been a number of leaks, and quite a number of persons also resigning in disgust over the lies they are required to dissipate.

[Herman]

However, the misconception may be that Pute cares about these numbers; or even about them getting limited whispering circulation in Russia.

If you look at the regular mortality numbers, the median age of death for Russian men, it's not like anyone in the Kremlin leadership gives a d*mn.

All the men around Pute are hugely rich thanks to him, so they are not going to do away with him. They want to get richer yet.

These stories that Pute's days are numbered are (perhaps) just wishful thinking in the West, and, in a way, our form of propaganda.

[The new erato]

Of course he doesn't care. But close to a third of his operational forces comitted to Ukraine being out of operation will have a significant impact. And the fact that wounded soldiers are returning, and that a significant numer are MIA can no be hid.

[MusicTurner]

I think the numbers may be correct, but that this was never intended for publishing. Not too far off western estimates of 7000 dead and 20.000 wounded a few days ago, but still far below Ukrainian claims.

A glitch, or maybe an intended leak by somebody in the organization (some of whom will know the true story behind the war), in which case a claim of hacking is perfectly logical. Journalists and the security services know, and there have been a number of leaks, and quite a number of persons also resigning in disgust over the lies they are required to dissipate.

Two other, now erased sections in the K-P article both had correct information (about a dead navy commander and an attack at a factory). Still, perhaps nobody knows the precise numbers, and estimates are no doubt secret.