World class orchestras outside Europe and N.A. ?

[Rabin_Fan]

Do you know from 3 live performances that Brahms Sym 1 with Bamert & the so-called very good MPO on CD - that last chord was patched from earlier chords? The MPO just could not play it together on 3 different nights. This was also told to me. So just how good are they Howard in a live concert? The precision is not there, the intonation is variable, the strings play in a "Rojak" (Malaysian for mixed salad) manner with all sorts of different strokes and areas of the bow and most of the time - they are on auto pilot and half-asleep.

You just attend any international series in the years before and you can see & hear that our dear MPO is just streets behind Philadelphia-Sawallisch, Leipzig GO-Blomstedt and even the La Scala Phil under Muti (just to name some touring orch) here.

[hautbois]

Do you know from 3 live performances that Brahms Sym 1 with Bamert & the so-called very good MPO on CD - that last chord was patched from earlier chords? The MPO just could not play it together on 3 different nights. This was also told to me. So just how good are they Howard in a live concert? The precision is not there, the intonation is variable, the strings play in a "Rojak" (Malaysian for mixed salad) manner with all sorts of different strokes and areas of the bow and most of the time - they are on auto pilot and half-asleep.

You just attend any international series in the years before and you can see & hear that our dear MPO is just streets behind Philadelphia-Sawallisch, Leipzig GO-Blomstedt and even the La Scala Phil under Muti (just to name some touring orch) here.

That Brahms cd is SHIT. HAHA, I KNOW! It never got anywhere. And we can also blame it on Maestro Bamert. I am not trying to say that the MPO is the best orchestra in the world my friend, i am just trying to say that they can be just as impressive and entertaining and as moving under the right circumstances. It is of course streets behind those orchestras, non the less, but bad performances of the Leipzig or the La Scala can be as bad as the bad performances of MPO too, so that's the main point of what i am trying to express. Have you watched Harnoncourt's recent COE Beethoven 5th on video? THEY DIDNT COME IN TOGETHER FOR THE OPENING! The opening was shown twice and the 2nd time they did it perfect. The camera even shoots a section of the shocked audience. It was to prove the fact that Harnoncourt was taking risks (as well as not having the best baton technique in the world). Failing the opening of Beethoven's 5th is like the ultimate sin, so tell me COE isnt world class!

Howard

Howard

[Rabin_Fan]

That Brahms cd is SHIT. HAHA, I KNOW! It never got anywhere. And we can also blame it on Maestro Bamert. I am not trying to say that the MPO is the best orchestra in the world my friend, i am just trying to say that they can be just as impressive and entertaining and as moving under the right circumstances. It is of course streets behind those orchestras, non the less, but bad performances of the Leipzig or the La Scala can be as bad as the bad performances of MPO too, so that's the main point of what i am trying to express. Have you watched Harnoncourt's recent COE Beethoven 5th on video? THEY DIDNT COME IN TOGETHER FOR THE OPENING! The opening was shown twice and the 2nd time they did it perfect. The camera even shoots a section of the shocked audience. It was to prove the fact that Harnoncourt was taking risks (as well as not having the best baton technique in the world). Failing the opening of Beethoven's 5th is like the ultimate sin, so tell me COE isnt world class!

Howard

Yeah, each orchestra & conductor can have his/her/their off-day. Nikolaus Harnoncourt should just stick to his cello playing in his Baroque group and forget about conducting and merely try to play in a different manner (claiming that his manner is the Holy Grail). It is often raspy, etc. I'd like to see him re-create the Beethoven VC premiere or any Beethoven Symphony premiere. Because LvB premiere's were often under-rehearsed, etc and riddled with mistakes due to under-practised, musicians in Vienna were too few amongst the concerts that happened the same night. I'd better stop there as M Forever may be waiting to gulp me up on this one.

As for the MPO's standard on its off-day, it can be perhaps down to 50% of its true potential but maybe the BPO's standard can drop only to 85% of its true capability.

[hautbois]

Yeah, each orchestra & conductor can have his/her/their off-day. Nikolaus Harnoncourt should just stick to his cello playing in his Baroque group and forget about conducting and merely try to play in a different manner (claiming that his manner is the Holy Grail). It is often raspy, etc. I'd like to see him re-create the Beethoven VC premiere or any Beethoven Symphony premiere. Because LvB premiere's were often under-rehearsed, etc and riddled with mistakes due to under-practised, musicians in Vienna were too few amongst the concerts that happened the same night. I'd better stop there as M Forever may be waiting to gulp me up on this one.

As for the MPO's standard on its off-day, it can be perhaps down to 50% of its true potential but maybe the BPO's standard can drop only to 85% of its true capability.

You don't need M Forever to gulp you, cos i just might do that as well!  But i will not try to preach you into believing in GOOD HIP performances, because you have obviously made up your mind on what is good and bad for yourself.

Howard

[jochanaan]

Under the right conductor, any orchestra can be world-class.  The justly-renowned NBC Symphony under Toscanini was a pickup orchestra whose members played other jobs behind Toscanini's back.  (I don't believe the Toscanini recordings give a good indication of how the orchestra actually sounded.  But I have a Franck Symphony by them, led by Guido Cantelli, that was recorded in excellent early stereo and gives a much better sound-picture by modern standards.  The strings were indeed world-class, the winds less so.)  Others that come to my mind are the Israel Philharmonic under Bernstein or Mehta; the Osaka Philharmonic under Asahina; and the Hong Kong Philharmonic under guest conductor Kenneth Schermerhorn.  (This is judging only from recordings heard over the radio, so don't take it as Gospel.)

I once heard a broadcast recording of the Mexico City Philharmonic, still in North America but a little outside the standard stomping grounds; most of the orchestra was fairly good, but the trumpet section was truly world-class.  Of course, there are all those mariachi and Latin-jazz groups in Mexico...

[mahlertitan]

Under the right conductor, any orchestra can be world-class.  The justly-renowned NBC Symphony under Toscanini was a pickup orchestra whose members played other jobs behind Toscanini's back.  (I don't believe the Toscanini recordings give a good indication of how the orchestra actually sounded.  But I have a Franck Symphony by them, led by Guido Cantelli, that was recorded in excellent early stereo and gives a much better sound-picture by modern standards.  The strings were indeed world-class, the winds less so.)  Others that come to my mind are the Israel Philharmonic under Bernstein or Mehta; the Osaka Philharmonic under Asahina; and the Hong Kong Philharmonic under guest conductor Kenneth Schermerhorn.  (This is judging only from recordings heard over the radio, so don't take it as Gospel.)

I once heard a broadcast recording of the Mexico City Philharmonic, still in North America but a little outside the standard stomping grounds; most of the orchestra was fairly good, but the trumpet section was truly world-class.  Of course, there are all those mariachi and Latin-jazz groups in Mexico...

so my high school orchestra only needs a messiah like Giulini to turn it around.

[Bruckner is God]

I heard the Hong Kong Philharmonic tonight playing Bruckner's 5th under Lawrence Renes. I thought they sounded abolutely fantastic,  the strings were marvelous, and so were the woodwinds. The brass I would not describe as world class, but as a whole I thought the orchestra was very good, much better than I thought it would be. The concert hall (Hong Kong cultural Center) is modern and beautiful and felt very intimate despite of more than 2.000 seats with fine acoustics
The string players were all asian looking except for three, while all the wind players looked caucasian except for one basoon player.
A highly enjoyable experience.

[imperfection]

I heard the Hong Kong Philharmonic tonight playing Bruckner's 5th under Lawrence Renes. I thought they sounded abolutely fantastic,  the strings were marvelous, and so were the woodwinds. The brass I would not describe as world class, but as a whole I thought the orchestra was very good, much better than I thought it would be. The concert hall (Hong Kong cultural Center) is modern and beautiful and felt very intimate despite of more than 2.000 seats with fine acoustics
The string players were all asian looking except for three, while all the wind players looked caucasian except for one basoon player.
A highly enjoyable experience.

I am so jealous, that's my hometown but I'm currently studying abroad and can't go back until my final exams are over next week...

Did you go to HK for vacation? How did you like it? 

[Bruckner is God]

I am so jealous, that's my hometown but I'm currently studying abroad and can't go back until my final exams are over next week...

Did you go to HK for vacation? How did you like it? 

I am on business trip, so I mostly see meeting rooms and my hotel room, but I have been here before and absolutely love the city. It is very exotic. The humidity and heat is a little too much for me though