The Snowshoed Sibelius

Started by Dancing Divertimentian, April 16, 2007, 08:39:57 PM

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Bogey

Letting some Herbie dominate my system with this 180 gram hunk of wax.  Man, this Hi-Q label truly delivers in sound.  I bought it months ago, but am just now giving it a first spin.  This is the September 1960 recording that I believe EMI has on disc.  Anyone else here enjoy this 5th from Karajan?  In your book, here does it rank in the three? recordings of the 5th that he did?



Any comments on the below performance are most welcome, as this lp is available for preorder and under consideration at this end:

There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Bogey

There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Dancing Divertimentian

Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Bogey

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on January 31, 2013, 07:36:04 PM
No difference I'm aware of, Bill. Should be safe with the cheap one.

Thanks, Don.  Any opinion on that Kletzki above?
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Sergeant Rock

Quote from: Bogey on January 31, 2013, 05:55:20 PM
  Anyone else here enjoy this 5th from Karajan?  In your book, here does it rank in the three? recordings of the 5th that he did?

Karajan's Fifths are not among my favorites. He ignores the score, ignores what Sibelius asks for, and rushes the final chords. He does it on all his recordings. I've never directly compared the three I have...the live '57 Sony, the EMI (both CDs) and a LP with the DG Fifth...but suspect the live performance would edge out the two studio recordings.

Sarge
the phone rings and somebody says,
"hey, they made a movie about
Mahler, you ought to go see it.
he was as f*cked-up as you are."
                               --Charles Bukowski, "Mahler"

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Bogey on February 01, 2013, 03:51:58 AM
Thanks, Don.  Any opinion on that Kletzki above?

Unfortunately I don't know anything about the Kletzki, Bill, but it's funny you should ask since I actually asked about this very recording just a few months ago - but the CD, not the LP. But I got no answer, either. I guess it's something of a mystery recording. 



Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on September 16, 2012, 09:35:06 PM
Anyone have any thoughts on Kletzi's 2nd with the Philharmonia, from the mid-50s and recorded in stereo?



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Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Bogey

Thanks, Sarge.


OK, went to the local record shop where they have hundreds of classical lps gathering dust.  I thought, hey, why not see if they have any Sibelius in the stacks.  I was not expecting a Mozartian or Beethovian landslide of Sibelian vinyl, but I only found one record dedicated to his music and only another on a compilation album.  I know they are out there....ebay has almost 2000 of them.  However, my question is this.  What were the peak years of this composer as far as popularity goes? Did he have any dips like Bach?  Etc.

There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Bogey

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on February 01, 2013, 03:24:41 PM
Unfortunately I don't know anything about the Kletzki, Bill, but it's funny you should ask since I actually asked about this very recording just a few months ago - but the CD, not the LP. But I got no answer, either. I guess it's something of a mystery recording.


Time to dig around a bit more then.  Did you already try to gather info on your own, Don?  How about the liner notes....any help there?
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Bogey on February 01, 2013, 03:30:28 PM

Time to dig around a bit more then.  Did you already try to gather info on your own, Don?  How about the liner notes....any help there?

I never did buy the CD, unfortunately. So I'm still in the dark about the recording. :(



Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

Bogey

There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

Bogey

FWIW, the original pressing of the No 2 above from  Kletzki went for $170, so $35 seems more reasonable.
There will never be another era like the Golden Age of Hollywood.  We didn't know how to blow up buildings then so we had no choice but to tell great stories with great characters.-Ben Mankiewicz

DavidRoss

Quote from: Bogey on February 01, 2013, 03:28:53 PM
What were the peak years of this composer as far as popularity goes? Did he have any dips like Bach?  Etc.
We're in 'em, Bill, judging from the number of recordings issued in the past couple of decades and the increasing frequency of performances. No doubt his popularity will continue to grow over the next century or two as more people catch on to him. He was highly regarded in America and the UK in the early 20th Century, but aside from Finland & Scandinavia (where he has always had a significant following), he's been little appreciated elsewhere...but that, I think, is starting to change.
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

jlaurson

Quote from: DavidRoss on February 01, 2013, 08:47:13 PM
We're in 'em, Bill, judging from the number of recordings issued in the past couple of decades and the increasing frequency of performances. No doubt his popularity will continue to grow over the next century or two as more people catch on to him. He was highly regarded in America and the UK in the early 20th Century, but aside from Finland & Scandinavia (where he has always had a significant following), he's been little appreciated elsewhere...but that, I think, is starting to change.

Sibelius was hugely appreciated up to and throughout WWII (most performed foreign composer under the Nazis, I think, though not because of his politics). Needless to say, that (and his consonant style) didn't help his reception post WWII which is when he was almost eradicated from the continental European concert scene. Since then it's been England and by extension (!) the US -- apart from the Northern Countries -- that have upheld his legacy.

John Whitmore

If anyone is interested I have just made a transfer of the Waverley/Saga LP of Gibson's Sibelius 3 and 7 from 1965. It's very good and well worth a listen. This transfer is being fully restored by Klassic Haus in the USA and should be available in March. I recommend the download version - they are always good quality from this source including artwork. Here's the link:
http://www.klassichaus.us/

Dancing Divertimentian

Quote from: Bogey on February 01, 2013, 03:42:44 PM
If you scroll through here, Don, it at least gives you a bit of insight into what he recorded, which might help.

including backing Pollini on early Chopin:

Quite a nice discography. Thanks, Bill. He's been around!

I only know Kletzki from his standout Beethoven symphony cycle with the Czech Philharmonic. One of these days I'm gonna have to investigate more from him.


Veit Bach-a baker who found his greatest pleasure in a little cittern which he took with him even into the mill and played while the grinding was going on. In this way he had a chance to have the rhythm drilled into him. And this was the beginning of a musical inclination in his descendants. JS Bach

dayveedh

I recently got to know the relatively neglected 4th symphony and was absolutely spellbound by it....I realise that it is a masterfully constructed work, but what captivated me about it was the sense of the dark impenetrable nordic forest haunted my mystery and deep foreboding as well as a certain majesty....WONDERFUL....-:)

DavidRoss

Quote from: dayveedh on February 04, 2013, 05:56:31 AM
I recently got to know the relatively neglected 4th symphony and was absolutely spellbound by it....I realise that it is a masterfully constructed work, but what captivated me about it was the sense of the dark impenetrable nordic forest haunted my mystery and deep foreboding as well as a certain majesty....WONDERFUL....-:)
It's often interesting to learn about the extra-musical associations some listeners have with certain pieces. I love the 4th. It might be my favorite Sibelius symphony, with no more than half a dozen other contenders for the title.  ;)  I've heard it said that for conductors trained at the Sibelius Academy, the 4th Symphony is like their Bible.

Which recording did you hear? Or were you fortunate enough to encounter it in a live performance?

And welcome to GMG!
"Maybe the problem most of you have ... is that you're not listening to Barbirolli." ~Sarge

"The problem with socialism is that sooner or later you run out of other people's money." ~Margaret Thatcher

not edward

Quote from: Dancing Divertimentian on February 02, 2013, 08:53:21 PM
Quite a nice discography. Thanks, Bill. He's been around!

I only know Kletzki from his standout Beethoven symphony cycle with the Czech Philharmonic. One of these days I'm gonna have to investigate more from him.
I think his Sibelius is probably worth visiting. I've not heard it in a long time but I recall it as being very much on the Romantic end of Sibelius interpretations, though with generally brisker tempi than most people taking this route. I'd imagine this would suit the first two, in particular, down to the ground.
"I don't at all mind actively disliking a piece of contemporary music, but in order to feel happy about it I must consciously understand why I dislike it. Otherwise it remains in my mind as unfinished business."
-- Aaron Copland, The Pleasures of Music

mahler10th

With so many Sibelius cycles out there, past and present, it is darn difficult to pin down a personal favourite.  A while back (late last year) I got hooked up with Bernstein's cycle with the NYPO, and it quickly swept everything aside for me...at that time.  Before this, I advocated Davis as the real Sibelian champion, and before that I had Ashkenazy and the Philharmonia on a plinth so high that Sibelius was to be voted in as the next Prime Minister of Finland (and the first posthumous one) and all musical matters should first be referenced to Johan Julius Christian Sibelius in writing, and furthermore he should be crowned King of Finland and damn near everything else.
:o
Anyhow, I have been jostling around with a number of Sibelius stuffs over the past few days, in between other stuff including making coffee, and I have discovered that, in fact, Davis is STILL the champion, and Ashkenazy is good but not that good.   I did some hefty balancing acts between Lenny, Ash and Davis, and found Davis with the BSO to be the most brilliantly executed with appropriate and not over measured expression.  To explain this better I suppose I could summarize it as I've found both Lenny and Davis to have it all, every acoustic ounce brilliant unto my ears, but Lenny has a bit too much of it.  Just a wee bit.  And Davis 'shapes' the music to more dazzling and less oppressive effect.   HOWEVER, I still have not tried the latest Davis LSO set...I wonder if it will be even better.  :-\
:-X
I will now go and take an asprin.


This one, etc..


calyptorhynchus

I've just been lsitening to a recording of the original version of the Fifth Symphony and was amazed by it. I was expecting a sort of less-polished Fifth with the first movement spilt in to two. In fact that is what it is but 'less-polished' means a completely different sound-world. In place of the very crystalline sound of the final version of the fifth, the early version is foggy, with pervasive and quite unsettling dissonances. It's not like the fourth, which is dark and where the tritone is tearing the music apart (particularly in the finale), but it's a question of dissonances in the texture of the music which are persistant, and never resolved. In the final version these are cleaned away. Also in the first version the finale is much longer and almost Brucknerian, the famous Thor's hammer theme swings away, but, as it were, though this fog.

It occurs to me that in the earlier version of the fifth Sibelius is exploring sounds that he doesn't touch again until his very last music, the music for the Tempest.

Must listen to both versions some more.

Anyone else have a view of this version of the fifth?
'Many men are melancholy by hearing music, but it is a pleasing melancholy that it causeth.' Robert Burton

'...is it not strange that sheepes guts should hale soules out of mens bodies?' Benedick in Much Ado About Nothing