Elgar's Hillside

[71 dB]

Interesting.... but I'm not convinced.  If on no other grounds than the fact that Pergolesi is no well-known work to the general public.  My guess would always be that the "well-known theme" would be something literally popular.

Are you thinking this on 21th century terms? What "popular" music were there 120 years ago to compete with Pergolesi in popularity? You didn't hear Madonna in the shopping mall. You heard Stabat Mater in the church.

[Biffo]

Are you thinking this on 21th century terms? What "popular" music were there 120 years ago to compete with Pergolesi in popularity? You didn't hear Madonna in the shopping mall. You heard Stabat Mater in the church.

If you heard the Stabat mater in a RC church in England it would have been the plainchant version or a hymn version in English, Pergolesi would have been highly unlikely. It might have been a favourite concert work but not in churches.

[71 dB]

Elgar's solo piano music is an interesting little World of itself. It kind of exposes things orchestral Elgar doesn't.

Five Improvisations (1929) - David Owen Norris.

[Irons]

All sorted then! The "Enigma" theme is derived from Pergolesi's Stabat Mater.

In all seriousness, I have no musical training so cannot follow the technicalities of the musical argument. But the theory that Elgar was shoving Catholicism under the noses of the British upper-classes without them knowing appeals. Also, not the type of music on my radar, Stabat Mater is a lovely piece.

https://thetannhausergate.com/index.php/2019/04/28/a-very-persuasive-identification-of-the-hidden-theme-of-elgars-enigma-variations/

[SonicMan46]

Up to Elgar in listening to my British collection - starting w/ the Symphonies, currently own just the two sets below (top), one w/ Andrew Davis purchased about 5 years ago, and the other w/ Previn bought years ago; enjoy both although Previn's second disc has not been well received over the years - some reviews attached for those interested or 'new' to this composer looking for potential recommendations.

For myself, I could easily add another set - of course, much is available - in perusing Amazon USA, the recordings that piqued my interest are newer ones w/ Edward Gardner (excellent reviews in Fanfare), prices are steep there (i.e. $20 USD per CD - slightly cheaper on the Amazon MP) - any comments appreciated - thanks! - Dave

 

 

[Mirror Image]

Up to Elgar in listening to my British collection - starting w/ the Symphonies, currently own just the two sets below (top), one w/ Andrew Davis purchased about 5 years ago, and the other w/ Previn bought years ago; enjoy both although Previn's second disc has not been well received over the years - some reviews attached for those interested or 'new' to this composer looking for potential recommendations.

For myself, I could easily add another set - of course, much is available - in perusing Amazon USA, the recordings that piqued my interest are newer ones w/ Edward Gardner (excellent reviews in Fanfare), prices are steep there (i.e. $20 USD per CD - slightly cheaper on the Amazon MP) - any comments appreciated - thanks! - Dave

 

 

Gardner is a highly respected conductor, Dave, but have you considered Mark Elder's Elgar with the Hallé Orchestra? These get top-marks from myself and many others. In fact, the whole Elder series of Elgar is very much worth your time even though I'm not too fond of the oratorios with The Dream of Gerontius perhaps being my favorite of the three he wrote.

[SonicMan46]

Gardner is a highly respected conductor, Dave, but have you considered Mark Elder's Elgar with the Hallé Orchestra? These get top-marks from myself and many others. In fact, the whole Elder series of Elgar is very much worth your time even though I'm not too fond of the oratorios with The Dream of Gerontius perhaps being my favorite of the three he wrote.

Hi John - thanks for the prompt comments - I'll certainly take a look at the Elder recordings; the only choral work in my collection is the Apostles which I have not listen to probably in a decade!  Dave

[Mirror Image]

Hi John - thanks for the prompt comments - I'll certainly take a look at the Elder recordings; the only choral work in my collection is the Apostles which I have not listen to probably in a decade!  Dave

Ah yes, The Apostles. I remember it have some very moving sections, but I find the work overlong and short on material. But some of his best choral music remains, for me, The Music Makers and, of course, The Dream of Gerontius.

[mc ukrneal]

Hi John - thanks for the prompt comments - I'll certainly take a look at the Elder recordings; the only choral work in my collection is the Apostles which I have not listen to probably in a decade!  Dave

There is so much good stuff out there. I have quite enjoyed a number of Gerontius recordings. I think I'd ultimately pick the Baker/Barbirolli, but there are numerous good choices here. I've also enjoyed the Music Makers directed by Andrew Davis. I also recommend the songs of Elgar. If you like that sort of thing, there are a few recordings. I have the part-songs with the Finzi singers. It's good, but I have no comparisons here. And a bit less well known are the Wand of Youth Suite. There is an excellent Naxos disc, directed by James Judd.

On the symphonies, I guess it just depends what you want.  If you don't have some of the classics like Boult or Barbirolli, I'd go for one of those over Davis.

[71 dB]

Maybe it's because I am an Elgarian, but I enjoy Elgar's oratorios tremendously and consider them wonderful. I think The Apostles and The Kingdom are greatly overlooked. I don't get people who say these oratorious are overlong and boring. Are you 15? ADHD? Those quiet calm sections are pure orchestral magic, classical ambient music. Sir Adrian Boult is imo the man when it comes to these works.

[71 dB]

Ah yes, The Apostles. I remember it have some very moving sections, but I find the work overlong and short on material. But some of his best choral music remains, for me, The Music Makers and, of course, The Dream of Gerontius.

The Music Makers is wonderful, but in it Elgar recycles heavily his own music which makes your post a bit ironic since you also claim The Apostles is short on material for it's length, something I don't agree with.

[aukhawk]

 

 

I don't know any of the above (and Davis has also recorded the reconstructed 3rd Symphony) and I tend not to look beyond Boult in this music, but for 'something different' I recommend Solti - who startled, then won over, the critics with his Elgar recordings back in the '70s - shortly after Boult's.

[Roasted Swan]

Are you 15? ADHD?

Strong words 71 dB.  For what its worth - I am neither of those but the two oratorios are Elgar's works I listen to least. 

I am currently reading Frank Howes' famous book - "The English Musical Renaissance" [pub. Secker & Warburg 1966].  Writing about The Apostles and The Kingdom Howes says; "The root weakness of the two oratorios is [the] lack of organic unity which Gerontius conspicuously possesses.....they show as many of Elgar's defects as his merits....of these the chief is his uncertain grasp of form.  [The Kingdom has a] text that is both discursive and episodic and worse still does not always make sense.  The concluding chorus of Part I ... topples over the wrong side of the line dividing breadth from banality...."

And so he goes on..... you get my point.  I like these works more that Howes who dismisses quite a long of the music he covers.  But my point is that these works and indeed ALL Elgar divides critics and listeners between genius and mundane (I think certain genius myself....)

[Biffo]

Reflecting on the above postings, I am NOT a fan of -

The oratorios except Gerontius (and then not Britten's recording)

Falstaff (always eluded me)

Payne's Elgar-flavoured symphony

Solti's Elgar symphonies

If that sounds too negative I have multiple recordings of Gerontius, the symphonies and concertos, the other orchestral works, Enigma, Sea Pictures etc

I have just been listening, with great pleasure to the Piano Quintet in E minor (Martin Roscoe and the Brodsky Quartet)

[Roasted Swan]

Reflecting on the above postings, I am NOT a fan of -

The oratorios except Gerontius (and then not Britten's recording)
Falstaff (always eluded me)
Payne's Elgar-flavoured symphony
Solti's Elgar symphonies

Ah the joy of differing taste! 
Don't like Pears as Gerontius but do like much of Britten's recording
Do like Falstaff
LOVE Paynes' reconstruction of Symphony 3
Really enjoy Solti's vision of the symphonies..... but then like Sinopoli at the other extreme.  Would rather have either than numerous "safe" middle ground versions....

[Biffo]

Ah the joy of differing taste! 
Don't like Pears as Gerontius but do like much of Britten's recording
Do like Falstaff
LOVE Paynes' reconstruction of Symphony 3
Really enjoy Solti's vision of the symphonies..... but then like Sinopoli at the other extreme.  Would rather have either than numerous "safe" middle ground versions....

Thanks for reminding me, don't like Sinopoli (in anything)

[Mirror Image]

Maybe it's because I am an Elgarian, but I enjoy Elgar's oratorios tremendously and consider them wonderful. I think The Apostles and The Kingdom are greatly overlooked. I don't get people who say these oratorious are overlong and boring. Are you 15? ADHD? Those quiet calm sections are pure orchestral magic, classical ambient music. Sir Adrian Boult is imo the man when it comes to these works.

So anyone who doesn't like the oratorios is 15 yrs. old and has ADHD? How about you learn to accept that other people don't like the same things you do? If you read what I wrote above, you'll see I wrote that I liked The Dream of Gerontius a lot. My criticism was for the other two oratorios: The Apostles and The Kingdom. I don't like Caractacus either (although it's a cantata) nor do I like The Banner of St. George or The Black Knight. For me, the heart of Elgar is in his orchestral and chamber music, but I do absolutely love The Spirit of England.

[SonicMan46]

Up to Elgar in listening to my British collection - starting w/ the Symphonies, currently own just the two sets below (top), one w/ Andrew Davis purchased about 5 years ago, and the other w/ Previn bought years ago; enjoy both although Previn's second disc has not been well received over the years - some reviews attached for those interested or 'new' to this composer looking for potential recommendations.

For myself, I could easily add another set - of course, much is available - in perusing Amazon USA, the recordings that piqued my interest are newer ones w/ Edward Gardner (excellent reviews in Fanfare), prices are steep there (i.e. $20 USD per CD - slightly cheaper on the Amazon MP) - any comments appreciated - thanks! - Dave

   

Well, I've been exploring the reviews & reading the comments here on Elgar's Symphonies for the last 2 days - I'll 'cull out' my 2-CD Previn set and decided to order the 3 CDs above (Boult will replace the Previn March performances) - Edward Gardner's recent recordings were praised uniformly by multiple Fanfare commenters (see attachment, if interested) - NOW, the price issue - ordered off the Amazon MP which saved about $6 and had $23 credit, so the total cost to me for 2 'new' Gardner CDs was $10 only - believe that I'll be happy w/ this deal.  Dave

[mc ukrneal]

Well, I've been exploring the reviews & reading the comments here on Elgar's Symphonies for the last 2 days - I'll 'cull out' my 2-CD Previn set and decided to order the 3 CDs above (Boult will replace the Previn March performances) - Edward Gardner's recent recordings were praised uniformly by multiple Fanfare commenters (see attachment, if interested) - NOW, the price issue - ordered off the Amazon MP which saved about $6 and had $23 credit, so the total cost to me for 2 'new' Gardner CDs was $10 only - believe that I'll be happy w/ this deal.  Dave

Let us know how it goes! I imagine you will enjoy them all...I certainly hope so...

[SonicMan46]

Let us know how it goes! I imagine you will enjoy them all...I certainly hope so...

Thanks Neal - looked at the older recordings, such as Boult, but wanted more 'modern' recordings, and when the reviewers state 'ideal soundstage' and 'spectacular sound', my ears lit up!    If I'm happy w/ the Boult Enigma Variations & Marches, then may also 'cull out' my Zinman recording of the Variations?  Looking forward to receiving those discs.  Dave