Renata Tebaldi

[Tsaraslondon]

I prefer Tebaldi to Callas in both of La forza... and Don Carlo (These 2 operas are in a same type,aren't they?)
In Aida ,the strong voice of Callas is also less emotional than the beautiful voice of Tebaldi.

But you can only be basing this, in the case of Don Carlo anyway, on a couple of arias. Callas did perform Elisabetta on stage, but no recording of those performances has survived, and all that does is a less than satisfactory late studio performance of Non pianger mia compagna and many magnificent performances of Tu che la vanita, one from the studio and several concert performances. This aria suited even the later Callas very well, not having the exposed high notes of much of her repertoire, and I find her performance endlessly fascinating; from the broad, majestic legato of the opening phrases, through the wistful recollection of the Fontainebleau section, and the turbulence of the illusion perduta, to the heavy chested utterance of the final pace dell'avel. No other singer achieves quite this level of detail.

However, wanermm, it cannot be stressed too strongly, that to really appreciate Callas, you have to listen to her in complete roles, preferably with libretto in hand, as Callas is just as likely to illuminate a single seemingly unimportant line of recitative as anything in any of the climactic moments. For Callas, a role was all of a piece, not just a series of isolated musical highlights loosely joined together with less than interesting recitative. This is one of those areas that make her unique. An example of this occurs in la Boheme, where the way she utters the single word Dorme? in Act 3, always brings a lump to my throat, In that one word, we hear all the faithful devotion and love this Mimi has for her Rodolfo. In fact, I'd go so far as to say, that in that one word, lies the whole key to Mimi's character. What other singer can do that?

[Lilas Pastia]

I have some very early recordings that Tebaldi made and I was very surprised by them. She was taking more trouble to be expressive, but it sounded natural. For some reason, she seemed to me to loose the detail of the characterisation in her years of fame. I have found her to be rather bland. But, perhaps had Callas not come along, with her hyper-expresivity, our judgements might be different.

Mike

Good point, Mike. I think that is of the essence, actually: we're talking about a great singer having  settled once and for all in her comfort zone, an another who never found one, constantly pushing and challenging her limits. Any Tebaldi (or Sutherland, Caballé or Norman) performance is predictable, however ravishing or technically dazzling. Take Callas (or Olivero, Scotto, Freni), and the music they sing comes alive, even if there are cracks in the vocal armoury.

For me there is no contest: Callas makes you hang on to her every word. With Tebaldi you just wait for the next lovely tone in her plush middle range.

[Tsaraslondon]

In Forza I prefer Callas to all others. Leonora is a wretched woman, what with her father murdered by her lover, and having to flee to escape her avenging brother. Tebaldi sounds sad in an elegant way, Price is a proud and dignified Donna Leonora di Vargas , but only Callas makes you feel the anguish and unbearable tension she is living in.

She is in parlous voice on the high note at "invan la pace" (in the last act aria), but she hurls the curse (MalediDZIONE ! MalediDZIONE !! MA-LE-DI-DZIOOOONE !!!) in a truly frightening way.  She makes all others seem only mildly worried. I haven't heard Caballé in the role. She did sing it, and the La Scala 1978 performance is available both as an audio only or filmed document (Carreras, Cappuccilli, Ghiaurov). She recorded Pace, Pace on disc but it's nothing special. Definitely of the 'mildly worried' kind. Her imprecation is just a loud, generalized AAAAAJHHH! after a couple of feeble 'malezione' - she can't even pronounce it properly.

I cannot but agree with you, Lilas. I suppose most of the singers who spin out that top B perfectly, just assume that their work is done and see the maledizione section as some sort of coda, not interesting or important as such. How typical of Callas that she sees them as the culmination of the aria and its dramatic climax. She does much the same at the end of Amelia's great Act 2 aria in Un Ballo in Maschera. In all her performances, whether live or in the studio, she phrases through the climactic top C, therefore, not making too much of it and giving due importance to the closing section after it. This is, by far, a much more musical solution than making that top C the most important note in  the aria, as so many do.

[wagnernn]

I like Tebaldi singing Santuzza.Some people said that in this piece,she got a problem with many high notes,but I don't think so(She did it very well,didn't she?).In this piece ,she shows me her glorious voice (coloratura?) which perfectly suited with verismo operas .Besides, Callas also had a special record.I  find that Callas sang this role well but not perfectly.

[Tsaraslondon]

I like Tebaldi singing Santuzza.Some people said that in this piece,she got a problem with many high notes,but I don't think so(She did it very well,didn't she?).In this piece ,she shows me her glorious voice (coloratura?) which perfectly suited with verismo operas .Besides, Callas also had a special record.I  find that Callas sang this role well but not perfectly.

Wagnernn, there is no coloratura in the role of Santuzza, so you are getting your terms wrong. Nor will you find any coloratura (a Callas speciality, but not a Tebaldi one) in verismo operas. Tebaldi is indeed very fine in the role, though my preference would still be for Callas, who, if we are to look at the score, actually does sing the role well nigh perfectly and also for Scotto, in her recording for Levine (with Domingo as Turiddu).

It should be noted, though, that Santuzza is nowhere near as taxing as most of Callas's greatest roles (Norma, Medea, Violetta, Lucia), nor indeed Tebaldi's (Aida, Desdemona, the Forza Leonora).

[wagnernn]

Let's discuss about Aida of Callas and Tebaldi.

[Lilas Pastia]

Have you listened to them?

[wagnernn]

Yes,both of them.I prefer the one by Tebaldi to Callas

[Tsaraslondon]

Yes,both of them.I prefer the one by Tebaldi to Callas

The complete opera? Not just isolated arias? And which Tebaldi recording are we talking about - her 1952 recording with Erede or the 1959 Karajan? Ditto Callas - the 1955 studio performance, or one of the many live performances from before then?

[wagnernn]

To Tsaraslondon:Tebaldi-1959;Callas-1955

[Tsaraslondon]

To Tsaraslondon:Tebaldi-1959;Callas-1955

Well, as I have mentioned before Tebaldi has the more natural Aida voice. I'm not sure it ever suited Callas, not even in the beginning of her career, when she sang it quite a lot. By the time of the 1955 recording, it was no longer in her stage repertoire, and, in fact, she had given her last performances of the opera two years earlier at Verona in 1953. However, though, vocally, Tebaldi is a deal more satisfying, I still find the Nile Scene in Callas's studio recording more satisfying than any other, benefiting, as it does, from that peculiar alchemy that Gobbi and Callas always found together. No other Aida makes you feel more keenly the conflict within Aida, between loyalty to her father and her homeland, and loyalty to her lover. She is also superb in the following duet with Radames, when she tricks him into betraying his country. Of course there are other places where Tebaldi trumps Callas's ace. Tebaldi probably sings the better O patria mia, Callas the more dramatic Ritorna vincitor. But there is no doubt that by 1955, Callas no longer had the fullness of timbre required for the role.

To hear her at her best in the role, you have to go to some of the live recordings, none of which enjoy particular good sound. The 1953 Covent Garden performance, with Barbirolli conducting, is probably the most musically rewarding, but the Mexico performance from 1951, with Del Monaco and Oralia Dominguez, demands to be heard, if only for the spectacular Eb in alt, with which Callas caps the Finale of Act 2. Callas is in wonderfully secure voice throughout, though, yet again, the climax of O patria mia is not her finest moment.

[Lilas Pastia]

The high E flat that Callas crowns the Triumph scene with is one of those grand-guignol moments of sung theatre that have gone down in the golden pages of opera lore. Priceless. Speaking of Price  , I still consider her O Patria mia the most beautiful and heartrending of them all (in various guises, including a couple that can be seen - and heard -  on Youtube).

As for Tebaldi, she had the chops, but not the subtlety to sing a great Aida. A lot of the role's finer moments are in the pp and ppp nuances, where here voice didn't really cut it. She managed them through proper schooling, but didn't convey the feelings those pianissimos were meant to.

Boy, I'm afraid this is very clumsy writing  , but I hope its meaning comes through...

[Tsaraslondon]

Speaking of Price  , I still consider her O Patria mia the most beautiful and heartrending of them all (in various guises, including a couple that can be seen - and heard -  on Youtube).

Price, without doubt, had the perfect Aida voice, and in her first recording, she is surrounded by a well nigh perfect cast, though I have always found Gorr a little matronly sounding. But, and this is a big but, you have to put up with Solti's vulgar and brash conducting. Personally, I don't think he had the first idea how to conduct Verdi. Even towards the end of his career, when I heard him conduct La Traviata, with Gheorghiu, at Covent Garden, there was no lyricism or sense of singing line from the orchestra. Karajan is far superior on both his Aida recordings (a great pity Price isn't on his Decca recording), as are Italian conductors, like Serafin and Muti.

Talking of Muti, Caballe's O patria mia is breathtaking, that dolce top C spun out in a peerless ppp; but I do find it something of a vocal trick. It is an absolutely astonishing piece of singing, but somehow Aida gets lost as I marvel at Caballe.

[Lilas Pastia]

My feelings exactly about Caballé's Aida.

About Price's I agree she is great in the London recording (I mean, Decca) but I'm not crazy about Vickers' Radames. As great as he is in Otello, other italian roles do not suit the grit of his voice. And the soft high tones are crooned, which I dislike (unless it's done as ravishingly as by Carreras in Karajan's EMI version).  Vickers is no match for Corelli or Bergonzi.

Of Tebaldi's two Decca Aidas, I prefer the first, where the voice is at its purest, and a most affecting portrayal. By 1959 there as a bit too much of chest tones.

My all-time favourite for conducting is the EMI Karajan, but then I seem to be in a tiny minority on that. Verdi with a karajanese accent!

[Tsaraslondon]

My all-time favourite for conducting is the EMI Karajan, but then I seem to be in a tiny minority on that. Verdi with a karajanese accent!

Actually, I agree with you, and Karajan has a wonderfully homogeneous team of soloists; Freni and Carreras a well matched pair of lovers and Baltsa, IMO, one of the best Amnerises on disc. For once she doesn't sound like a barn storming Azucena, taking a night off, but, as she should, like a young, spoiled Princess. Cappucilli is also very fine, if without Gobbi's individuality. I may miss Callas's peculiar insights and Price's glorious singing, but I'd still call it my all round favourite recording of the opera.

[Lilas Pastia]

Actually, I agree with you, and Karajan has a wonderfully homogeneous team of soloists; Freni and Carreras a well matched pair of lovers and Baltsa, IMO, one of the best Amnerises on disc. For once she doesn't sound like a barn storming Azucena, taking a night off, but, as she should, like a young, spoiled Princess. Cappucilli is also very fine, if without Gobbi's individuality. I may miss Callas's peculiar insights and Price's glorious singing, but I'd still call it my all round favourite recording of the opera.

Hear ! Hear ! 

Couldn't put it better!

[wagnernn]

What do you think about Tebaldi in the "girl of the golden west ?" and in some religious works?

[Lilas Pastia]

For one of my friends, Fanciulla is probably Tebaldi's best role. He had me compare Nilsson and Tebaldi in Minnie's aria and the card scene, and I have to say that not only did Renata convey the character's toughness and humour perfectly, but vocally she trumped Birgit where it counted: in the mi-range of the part.

[wagnernn]

Oh,Lilas Pastia,please explain to me "Mi-range"; I can't understand it because my English is to bad!
And how about in religious works and French opera.I've just listened to "Habanera" and Manon in youtube.

[Lilas Pastia]

Sorry, that was a typo. I meant mid range - the middle part of the voice, up to G if I'm not mistaken. That's because although Minnie demands a spinto voice of some power, it doesn't lie all that high.

I'm not aware that Tebaldi sang any religious works? She may have sung the Verdi Requiem early in her carreer, but I'm not even sure she did. And I doubt very much she sang Carmen or Manon  . Do you have links for those youtube vids?