Beethoven Piano Concertos 4 and 5.

[MISHUGINA]

Been craving to get a kickarse recording. There are so many good ones out there but there is only one which would you recommend?

4+5 concertos:

- Wilhelm Kempff/BPO/Ferdinand Reitner
- any more suggestions?

Emperor:

- Rudolph Serkin/NYPO/Bernstein (Emperor)
- Michelangeli/Vienna Symphoniker/Guilini (Emperor)
- Van Cliburn/CSO/Reiner


Is the new Helene Grimaud Emperor with Staatskapelle Dresden/Jurowski any good? If its good I might grab the Helene one first! 

[MichaelRabin]

Stephen Kovacevich, LSO, Sir Colin Davis for the Emperor - fantastic playing from SK.

[hornteacher]

It's on two different CDs, but the Bronfman/Zinman is my personal "kickarse" favorite.

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=106445&album_group=5

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=144825

[Todd]

The first one listed for each concerto would be the one to keep if I could only keep one.


4th

Kempff / Leitner
Gilels / Ludwig
Sherman / Neumann
Moravec / Belohlavek
Haskil / Zecchi
Pollini / Abbado
Sanchez / Ros-Marbo (for an 'alternative' approach)


5th

Pollini / Bohm 
Serkin / Ormandy
Katchen / Gamba
Schnabel / Sargent
Sherman / Neumann
Fischer / Furtwangler
Michelangeli / Smetacek  (other recordings worth considering)
Gieseking / Galliera

[George]

4 - Arrau/Haitink


5 - Polloni/Boehm or Serkin/Bernstein (with an equally incredible 3)

[longears]

It's on two different CDs, but the Bronfman/Zinman is my personal "kickarse" favorite.

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=106445&album_group=5

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=144825

I really like these, too.  I don't have one of those collections reaching back to Edison, but of those I do have--Gilels/Szell, Fleisher/Szell, Pollini/Böhm, Arau/Haitink, and Bronfman/Zinman--the last is my preference these days.  I keep meaning to pick up Kempff/van Kempen, however.

[PerfectWagnerite]

It's on two different CDs, but the Bronfman/Zinman is my personal "kickarse" favorite.

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=106445&album_group=5

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=144825

Yes my favorite also. I only have about 5 recordings of these works but Bronfman/Zinman is truly something special.

[PSmith08]

I have two favorites for the Emperor, both with Sir Clifford Curzon as the soloist: the Knappertsbusch/WP recording from 1957 and the Boulez/BBCSO performance from 1971. I am generally a fan of Knappertsbusch, and as broad as his tempi generally were, Boulez is comparable in this piece. Knappertsbusch ran 38'54" and Boulez 39'37". I tend to favor Boulez, if for no other reason than his sensitivity to the soloist and the balance between the same and the orchestra. Knappertsbusch might have the echt Deutsch thing down a little better, though. There is a certain weight and heft, a 19th-Century interpretation, as it were, to Knappertsbusch's recording. As Jed Distler noted in his CT review, Boulez, on the other hand, is a dynamic collaborator. There is a sense, at least to these ears, that they are working together - as opposed to Boulez filling the time between solos. I gather that there is an Audite recording of Kubelík leading the SOBR in the two concertos in 1977. If those performances are as good as the rest of the Kubelík/SOBR/Audite stuff, I can recommend those sound unheard. Curzon is, in all the cases with which I am familiar, elegant and poised.

[BorisG]

4, Fleisher & Szell. 5, Gelber & Leitner.

[Mr. Darcy]

Is the new Helene Grimaud Emperor with Staatskapelle Dresden/Jurowski any good? If its good I might grab the Helene one first!  Grin

While the recommendations you've received thus far are excellent, and you'll no doubt be satisfied with almost any of them, I will answer the latter part of your question. In my opinion, the Grimaud/Jurowski/Staatskapelle Dresden IS good. VERY good. Grab it.

[MishaK]

My favorite Emperor would be Michelangeli/VSO/Giulini. But as a combination of 4 &5 try to find Gilels/Philharmonia/Ludwig. It was on the EMI GROC series, but I'm not sure it's still around.

[Holden]

4&5 combined

Gilels/Ludwig - still available on Testament
Perahia/Haitink

#4
Gilels/Ludwig
Moravec/Turnovsky

#5
Katchen/Gamba
Rubinstein/Wallenstein
Schnabel/Sargent

[dirkronk]

If I interpret "kickarse" correctly, I would strongly commend Fleisher/Szell for 4 and Backhaus/Schmidt-Isserstedt for 5. These want for nothing IMO.

However, there are so many other fine ones. Many have already been mentioned. I thoroughly concur with Gilels/Ludwig for both 4 and 5, but would categorize these as more civilized than kickarse. I love Kempff, but unless you're allergic to mono, I'd say at least listen to his earlier versions with van Kempen as well as his later ones with Leitner. Same comment re the E. Fischer/Furtwangler "Emperor"--this is a classic--and whatever Schnabel you prefer (I currently like the Sargent). Moravec is great in 4, whoever he's paired with, and Haskil too is worth hearing. While I have not heard Grimaud's commercial releases, she made #4 rather a concert specialty, and I have downloads of at least 3 different performances from assorted venues from a couple of years back (EDIT: from '01, '02 and '03--I just checked)...they are indeed worth a listen, though they do not displace Fleisher or Gilels in my personal top list. Michelangeli's assorted live performances offer riches: his live 5 with Giulini is fine, but I have an old IGI LP of performances with Zdravkovic of #4 and Steinberg in #5 that have moments of magic (in very faded sonics, alas), and just recently got one of his #5 performances with Celibidache. Recent relistening to Serkin performances--w/ Ormandy in 4 and Bernstein in 5--have made me feel more appreciative of his approaches, as well. Then there's the Casadesus/van Beinum #4. The Gieseking/Rother #5 with ack-ack obligato (stunning performance all the same). And...and... Darn. I could just go on and on listing fine performances...




Dirk

[Mark]

It's on two different CDs, but the Bronfman/Zinman is my personal "kickarse" favorite.

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=106445&album_group=5

http://www.arkivmusic.com/classical/album.jsp?album_id=144825

Glad you mentioned Bronfman. He absolutely whips hide in the Fourth (and the Third, actually), but I'll take Sherman in the Fifth - Bronfman tries a little too hard to be 'different', for my liking, in that beautiful central movement. The result is a stilted and unnecessarily fussy performance that never quite glides as I always think it should.

[hornteacher]

Glad you mentioned Bronfman. He absolutely whips hide in the Fourth (and the Third, actually), but I'll take Sherman in the Fifth - Bronfman tries a little too hard to be 'different', for my liking, in that beautiful central movement. The result is a stilted and unnecessarily fussy performance that never quite glides as I always think it should.

I liked the different approach to the Emperor, but I do agree that the peak of his cycle is the performance of the 3rd and 4th.

[Bonehelm]

for 4th: Lang Lang/Eschenbach.

[Holden]

for 4th: Lang Lang/Eschenbach.

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

great joke!!!!

[Mark]

hahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahahaha

great joke!!!!

Y'know, I thought it, but didn't dare say it out loud.

Sorry, Bonehelm. You can like whatever you like. We all do ... and we all occasionally get stick for it.

[mahlertitan]

Y'know, I thought it, but didn't dare say it out loud.

Sorry, Bonehelm. You can like whatever you like. We all do ... and we all occasionally get stick for it.

I think Bonehelm is serious...

[Holden]

Sorry Bonehelm, I couldn't help myself. Please accept my apology if you were offended.