Chopin

[DavidW]

Good one George!

[karlhenning]

(* chortle *)

[karlhenning]

Chopin is more this dude's cup of tea:

[George]

Chopin is more this dude's cup of tea:

Thanks for the new Wallpaper for my BB. 

[karlhenning]

Hah!

[raduneo]

Chopin is one of the composers I admire most dearly. I like almost everything from him. It really shows that he was a perfectionist: his music is consistently of high quality I find (ok not including his orchestral works). The Nocturnes are in my opinions some of the best piano pieces on the planet.

Of all the Berceuse's I have heard, there is one from Cortot (on an EMI classics disc) that I enjoy most.

Does anyone know any really good interpretations for the Fantaisie Impromptu (and the Impromptus in general) ?

I am also trying to find good interpretations of the Ballades (I like Ballade 1 played by Helene Grimaud so far).

Any help would be MUCH appreciated.

[Sammy]

Does anyone know any really good interpretations for the Fantaisie Impromptu (and the Impromptus in general) ?

My favorites:

Ashkenazy/Decca (1985) - gorgeous with delectable nuance.
Francois/EMI (1957) - drive and urgency off the charts.
Arrau/Philips (1980) - a tower of strength and nobility (I feel exhausted by the end).
Moiseiwitsch/Pearl (1961) - love the power and improvisatory nature of this private performance.

[Scion7]

Chopin wanted the Fantasie-Impromptu destroyed after his death!
Artur plays from a previously unknown manuscript, which differs in numerous details from more well known versions.




btw, by orchestral works, surely you didn't mean the piano concertos (for the piano part) not being of high quality?

[George]

I am also trying to find good interpretations of the Ballades (I like Ballade 1 played by Helene Grimaud so far).

The best I have heard is Maria Tipo (live) on Ermitage.

Moravec on Supraphon is my second favorite.

More details:

Chopin Ballades

I have been working on a survey of pianists who have recorded all four of Chopin's lovely Ballades. Over the years I have accumulated a number of different interpretations and thought it would be useful to compare them.

The pianists used in this survey are Moiseiwitsch, Cortot (Naxos), Ashkenazy (1960s and 1980s), Gulda, Entremont, Perahia, Zimerman, Rubinstein, Arrau, Moravec, Vasary, Gavrilov, Anievas, Tipo (live, Ermitage), Richter (live, Praga) and Casadesus (live, Sony.)

To make things more manageable, I listened to each pianists Ballade number one and then only listened to Ballade two from pianists whom I felt excelled at Ballade number one. In the same way, I only listened to Ballade three from pianists who excelled at one and two. At this point, I had narrowed the list to seven pianists; Gavrilov, Moravec, Perahia, Cortot, Ashkenazy (1980s), Zimerman and Tipo (live, Ermitage.)  All seven did well enough in three so that I wanted to hear their fourth Ballade to make my final decisions. 

In the end, these were my findings. I enjoyed Cortot's but felt that he was hampered a great deal by poor sound and somewhat sloppy playing. Nevertheless, his set makes a fine historical choice, especially because his Ballades are coupled with a number of gorgeously played Nocturnes. Zimerman had a number of things going for him, including great sound, technique and finish. However, I often found his dynamic contrasts to be too extreme, too Lisztian for my taste. Perahia also had much going for him, beautiful playing throughout and also very nice sound. Unfortunately, his playing was often generic, lacking spontaneity and excitement found in other readings. Gavrilov played these works extremely well, but unfortunately interpreted these much like Zimerman. His forte chords at times sounded steely and downright banging. Ashkenazy's 1980's readings were better than all the above, though a few times his recordings were somewhat generic, sounding dull and/or less exciting than others.

Moravec's Ballades were much better than I had remembered. His slow tempos, dark piano sound, solid technique and sumptuous tone made for some special readings of these four works. His playing lacked some of Gavrilov and Zimerman's drama, but it certainly wasn't boring by any means. In fact, his set would be my favorite if it weren't for the very special live recording by Maria Tipo. Her intensity and beautiful tone throughout has to be heard to believed. Considering that all of the above performances were studio creations and, with the exception of Cortot, therefore likely benefited from editing and retakes. The sound of her piano seemed a bit out of tune in the first Ballade, but this annoyance quickly faded into the background as she continued. She was at her best in the third and fourth Ballades, where she played with all the requisite power, along with that special beauty I look for in my Chopin. This OOP Ermitage CD is well worth seeking out. Luckily the Moravec Ballades remain in print and at Budget price.

[Drasko]

For complete Ballades I'd choose Samson Francois for his sense of spontaneity and excitement, Benno Moiseiwitsch for the most beautiful piano tone ever committed to recorded medium and Alfred Cortot for his perfect phrasing, occasional dropped note notwithstanding.

Moravec I find lovely but just too reticent for Ballades, although is first recording of fourth Ballade is awesome.


raduneo, if you're into sifting through old threads there are two much bigger ones on Chopin :

Chopin recordings
and from previous iteration of this forum
Fighting over Chopin

[George]

For complete Ballades I'd choose Samson Francois for his sense of spontaneity and excitement, Benno Moiseiwitsch for the most beautiful piano tone ever committed to recorded medium and Alfred Cortot for his perfect phrasing, occasional dropped note notwithstanding.

I'll give Moiseiwitsch another listen and give the Francois a try. I agree about the Cortot.

[Drasko]

I'll have to relisten to Tipo, I have the disc somewhere but no recollection of the performance at all.

Speaking of Gavrilov, I've just received Belgrade Philharmonic program for the next season, and Gavrilov is scheduled to conduct from the keyboard Tchaikovsky's 1st, Ravel's Left Hand and Rachmaninov's 3rd in one concert. What a magnificent train wreck is that going to be!

[George]

Speaking of Gavrilov, I've just received Belgrade Philharmonic program for the next season, and Gavrilov is scheduled to conduct from the keyboard Tchaikovsky's 1st, Ravel's Left Hand and Rachmaninov's 3rd in one concert. What a magnificent train wreck is that going to be!

Yes, I'd love to be there!

BTW, I listened to the Samson Ballades this morning and though I find his approach original and somewhat refreshing, overall the phrases seem too rushed for me. This rushing seems to diminish the poetry of the music.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

Does anyone know any really good interpretations for the Fantaisie Impromptu (and the Impromptus in general) ?

For the complete Impromptus including the Fantaisie Kodama is very fine. For the Fantaisie alone Katchen is first rate:


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I am also trying to find good interpretations of the Ballades (I like Ballade 1 played by Helene Grimaud so far).

Great Ballades for me include Moravec, Gavrilov, & Zimerman.

[BobsterLobster]

Zimerman's ballades, hands down, for me!
But I did recently come across Vladmir Feltsman's Chopin recordings, his ballades would have to be my second choice.

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On Spotify:
http://open.spotify.com/album/7cGz8VJ4ZzmGSjTGlg4tSS

[George]

For complete Ballades I'd choose Samson Francois for his sense of spontaneity and excitement,

Although I don't think this approach really worked well for me in his Ballades, it sure works well in the Scherzos. Really well!

[raduneo]

The best I have heard is Maria Tipo (live) on Ermitage.

Moravec on Supraphon is my second favorite.

More details:

Chopin Ballades

I have been working on a survey of pianists who have recorded all four of Chopin's lovely Ballades. Over the years I have accumulated a number of different interpretations and thought it would be useful to compare them.

The pianists used in this survey are Moiseiwitsch, Cortot (Naxos), Ashkenazy (1960s and 1980s), Gulda, Entremont, Perahia, Zimerman, Rubinstein, Arrau, Moravec, Vasary, Gavrilov, Anievas, Tipo (live, Ermitage), Richter (live, Praga) and Casadesus (live, Sony.)

To make things more manageable, I listened to each pianists Ballade number one and then only listened to Ballade two from pianists whom I felt excelled at Ballade number one. In the same way, I only listened to Ballade three from pianists who excelled at one and two. At this point, I had narrowed the list to seven pianists; Gavrilov, Moravec, Perahia, Cortot, Ashkenazy (1980s), Zimerman and Tipo (live, Ermitage.)  All seven did well enough in three so that I wanted to hear their fourth Ballade to make my final decisions. 

In the end, these were my findings. I enjoyed Cortot's but felt that he was hampered a great deal by poor sound and somewhat sloppy playing. Nevertheless, his set makes a fine historical choice, especially because his Ballades are coupled with a number of gorgeously played Nocturnes. Zimerman had a number of things going for him, including great sound, technique and finish. However, I often found his dynamic contrasts to be too extreme, too Lisztian for my taste. Perahia also had much going for him, beautiful playing throughout and also very nice sound. Unfortunately, his playing was often generic, lacking spontaneity and excitement found in other readings. Gavrilov played these works extremely well, but unfortunately interpreted these much like Zimerman. His forte chords at times sounded steely and downright banging. Ashkenazy's 1980's readings were better than all the above, though a few times his recordings were somewhat generic, sounding dull and/or less exciting than others.

Moravec's Ballades were much better than I had remembered. His slow tempos, dark piano sound, solid technique and sumptuous tone made for some special readings of these four works. His playing lacked some of Gavrilov and Zimerman's drama, but it certainly wasn't boring by any means. In fact, his set would be my favorite if it weren't for the very special live recording by Maria Tipo. Her intensity and beautiful tone throughout has to be heard to believed. Considering that all of the above performances were studio creations and, with the exception of Cortot, therefore likely benefited from editing and retakes. The sound of her piano seemed a bit out of tune in the first Ballade, but this annoyance quickly faded into the background as she continued. She was at her best in the third and fourth Ballades, where she played with all the requisite power, along with that special beauty I look for in my Chopin. This OOP Ermitage CD is well worth seeking out. Luckily the Moravec Ballades remain in print and at Budget price.

That is an impressive analysis George, to say the least! I appreciate your help! I will put your advice to good use. I already had Ashnenazy's Ballade's: I will listen more carefully!

[raduneo]

My favorites:

Ashkenazy/Decca (1985) - gorgeous with delectable nuance.
Francois/EMI (1957) - drive and urgency off the charts.
Arrau/Philips (1980) - a tower of strength and nobility (I feel exhausted by the end).
Moiseiwitsch/Pearl (1961) - love the power and improvisatory nature of this private performance.

Thanks Sammy, I will report back (somewhat) soon!

[raduneo]

Chopin wanted the Fantasie-Impromptu destroyed after his death!
Artur plays from a previously unknown manuscript, which differs in numerous details from more well known versions.




btw, by orchestral works, surely you didn't mean the piano concertos (for the piano part) not being of high quality?

Thanks! Well, as far as I know his Piano Concertos don't stand among the best of the 19th century. It is true that the piano part is very good. Eitherway, I LOVE both concertos. (Pollini for the 1st and Zimmerman for the 2nd).

[George]

Moiseiwitsch/Pearl (1961) - love the power and improvisatory nature of this private performance.

I must revisit that, along with his Ballades. He was a very special pianist.