Author Topic: Bach Goldberg Variations  (Read 74453 times)

0 Members and 1 Guest are viewing this topic.

Online Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 15591
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #420 on: September 06, 2020, 07:00:45 AM »
I just came back to mention an idea about Rubsam. He's a militant -- what he does is about the fight for new ways of making sense of baroque keyboard music. Someone like Hantai is much less so, he's a conservatory musician playing in a way which is entirely of a piece with conservatory values. Hantai's art is the art of victory -- it celebrates the status quo, the powers that be. Rubsam's art is an art of struggle -- it's part of a process designed to make change.

(In case you think I'm going mad(der), I've been listening to this lecture by Alain Badieu

https://vimeo.com/16453571

)
« Last Edit: September 06, 2020, 07:02:25 AM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline Dry Brett Kavanaugh

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 810
  • Location: U.S.A.
  • Currently Listening to:
    Eric Dolphy, Persian music, Sorabji, Scriabin, Sex Pistols
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #421 on: September 06, 2020, 07:00:53 AM »
I checked the Rubsam on YT. Certainly sounds like Rubsam. Had he done all sorts of thing you gents kindly explained more “subtly,” would it have been more successful/effective? The less is more. Never fan of Rubsam, but it is a good work.

Offline Dry Brett Kavanaugh

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 810
  • Location: U.S.A.
  • Currently Listening to:
    Eric Dolphy, Persian music, Sorabji, Scriabin, Sex Pistols
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #422 on: September 06, 2020, 07:02:40 AM »
As for unique interpretations, I like Edward Aldwell’s version. I find his less-Romantic (more- Baroque?) piano cool and hip. I like his French Suites as well. Also, Peter Serkin’s (piano) GV and Inventions and S. are attractive.

Offline vers la flamme

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2193
  • Location: Atlanta
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #423 on: September 07, 2020, 12:57:01 PM »
I've been listening to the Rübsam in bite sized chunks ever seeing Mandryka profess it to be the greatest Goldberg ever and whatnot. I still hate it, but I think I'm making progress; I finally found a variation that I kind of like: No.21. But his rubato still strikes me as rather tasteless on the whole.

Maybe it would be better if I could see him performing it live? Idk.

Offline JBS

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4505
  • If music be the food of love, play on!
  • Location: USA
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #424 on: September 07, 2020, 04:19:10 PM »
Crosspost from Waylt2

Bought this earlier today.



After a first listen, I think it's not too bad.  It runs for about 91 1/2 minutes, with the CD split coming in the middle, between variations 15 and 16.  Lang Lang's approach might be described as contemplative or meditative, with an emphasis on bringing out the melodic line.  Even the quicker passages are not as fast as other pianists play them, although they are sped up enough to make the necessary contrast. I wouldn't label it a "romantic" approach.

In the notes Lang Lang describes starting to play the work for Harnoncourt, only to be interrupted by the conductor, who told him the work needed "a greater sense of solitude" and that the pianist look for a place of "stillness" in himself. Maybe this Zen-like approach appealed to a pianist who comes from the land where Zen was developed. It certainly seems to inform his performance.

My version, the one linked, has only the studio performance.  There's a four CD version available with both the studio and a live concert performance. Obviously I have no idea of how the latter comes across.

I won't play it often, but I don't regret the purchase.  It is probably worth at least one listen via a streaming service.

Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Online Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 15591
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #425 on: September 07, 2020, 10:25:33 PM »

Maybe it would be better if I could see him performing it live? Idk.

Well that’s never going to happen.

: No.21. But his rubato still strikes me as rather tasteless on the whole.


I can’t hear anything special about the approach to v21, that’s to say what he does there is the same as what he does everywhere else.

What I would like to hear is the recording processed so that each voice was given a radically different timbre, one voice made to sound like woodblocks, another like a trumpet, that sort of thing, I think the result would be like Stockhausen.
« Last Edit: September 07, 2020, 10:33:47 PM by Mandryka »
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline vers la flamme

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2193
  • Location: Atlanta
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #426 on: September 08, 2020, 01:01:13 AM »
Well that’s never going to happen.

Why? Doesn't Rübsam do live recitals? I guess that would explain how he's able to record so much so fast.

I can’t hear anything special about the approach to v21, that’s to say what he does there is the same as what he does everywhere else.

What I would like to hear is the recording processed so that each voice was given a radically different timbre, one voice made to sound like woodblocks, another like a trumpet, that sort of thing, I think the result would be like Stockhausen.

No, I didn't think there was anything special about it either. It's just the only one I liked. Ie. maybe that approach fits some variations more than others...? Or maybe it just takes 21 variations for me to get used to it.  ;D

Online Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 15591
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #427 on: September 08, 2020, 01:40:37 AM »
Why? Doesn't Rübsam do live recitals? I guess that would explain how he's able to record so much so fast.



He said to me that it's not worth it, you get three old age pensioners and a dog.
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline milk

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 3538
  • Location: usa
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #428 on: September 08, 2020, 02:51:10 AM »
He said to me that it's not worth it, you get three old age pensioners and a dog.
That’s pretty sad that such an illustrious performer doesn’t draw an audience. Hmm....does he live in the states these days? I suppose if you’re a student where he’s currently teaching you can find him performing the organ.
I saw Masaaki Suzuki Play in Japan in a small university chapel but it was packed with a few hundred people. Then again, in Japan, pensioners are a dime a dozen.

Offline vers la flamme

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2193
  • Location: Atlanta
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #429 on: September 08, 2020, 01:45:03 PM »
I'm not sure if Rübsam is currently on faculty anywhere. Would be amazing to have him as a prof, even if I disagree with some aspects of his interpretation.

Offline Iota

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 699
  • Location: UK
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #430 on: September 09, 2020, 02:29:12 AM »
He said to me that it's not worth it, you get three old age pensioners and a dog.

In these days of social distancing, that might be considered a reasonable crowd!

Offline Dry Brett Kavanaugh

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 810
  • Location: U.S.A.
  • Currently Listening to:
    Eric Dolphy, Persian music, Sorabji, Scriabin, Sex Pistols
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #431 on: September 12, 2020, 02:58:09 PM »
I've been listening to the Rübsam in bite sized chunks ever seeing Mandryka profess it to be the greatest Goldberg ever and whatnot. I still hate it, but I think I'm making progress; I finally found a variation that I kind of like: No.21. But his rubato still strikes me as rather tasteless on the whole.

Maybe it would be better if I could see him performing it live? Idk.

His violin transcriptions could be enjoyable to some people.
How could you type the correct “u” for Rubsam?

Offline vers la flamme

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2193
  • Location: Atlanta
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #432 on: September 12, 2020, 03:02:31 PM »
His violin transcriptions could be enjoyable to some people.
How could you type the correct “u” for Rubsam?

I have a Macbook, if you hold the option key and press "u", it gives you an umlaut: ¨ and then whichever vowel you type next goes underneath the umlaut, making it easy to type äëïöüÿ or anything else. Not sure how it's done on Windows.

Anyway, I am curious about those violin sonata transcriptions.

Offline Dry Brett Kavanaugh

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 810
  • Location: U.S.A.
  • Currently Listening to:
    Eric Dolphy, Persian music, Sorabji, Scriabin, Sex Pistols
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #433 on: September 12, 2020, 03:09:57 PM »
I have a Macbook, if you hold the option key and press "u", it gives you an umlaut: ¨ and then whichever vowel you type next goes underneath the umlaut, making it easy to type äëïöüÿ or anything else. Not sure how it's done on Windows.

Anyway, I am curious about those violin sonata transcriptions.

Umlaut? That sounds like a chocolate mousse in Belgium.
Since I don’t expect to write about Rubsam much, I don’t think I need to buy Macbook.

Offline JBS

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4505
  • If music be the food of love, play on!
  • Location: USA
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #434 on: September 12, 2020, 03:59:31 PM »
The common convention for those whose keyboards lack umlauts is to have the letter e follow the umlauted vowel.

Thus, Ruebsam.


Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Online Mandryka

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 15591
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #435 on: September 12, 2020, 07:17:07 PM »
Yes but Haendel and Furtwaengler look like spelling mistakes in English, writing Handel and Furtwangler is so common. And Händel and Furtwängler look pretentious!
Wovon man nicht sprechen kann, darüber muss man schweigen

Offline André

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 9709
  • Location: Laval, QC
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #436 on: September 13, 2020, 04:40:42 AM »
I always try to write with the diacritics. I must be pretentious.

Offline vers la flamme

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 2193
  • Location: Atlanta
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #437 on: September 13, 2020, 05:44:05 AM »
Umlaut? That sounds like a chocolate mousse in Belgium.
Since I don’t expect to write about Rubsam much, I don’t think I need to buy Macbook.

You've been listening to classical music for how long, and you've just encountered this term for the first time? ;D

Re: Handel, that's one exception where I never add the diacritical mark because after he moved to England he dropped the umlaut, or at least became well known without it. I keep it in Furtwängler because it's a silly enough name, and it looks even sillier without the ¨.

Offline JBS

  • Veteran member
  • *
  • Posts: 4505
  • If music be the food of love, play on!
  • Location: USA
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #438 on: September 13, 2020, 06:19:19 AM »
I always try to write with the diacritics. I must be pretentious.

No, you have a keyboard with diacritics.

My phone has them to, but you seem to need to two or three fingers to get the right key pressed in the right way.


Hollywood Beach Broadwalk

Offline Old San Antone

  • Full Member
  • *
  • Posts: 347
  • Location: USA
Re: Bach Goldberg Variations
« Reply #439 on: September 13, 2020, 06:37:00 AM »
Schönberg  Nice!

I learned something today.  What about all the ones in French?