Mahler symphonies - help

[DavidRoss]

Extreme, in either direction, is not what she's looking for in Mahler. I think    (I'm sure she'll clarify if clarification is needed.)

While Bernstein is sometimes unhurried, he also exaggerates, elevates, the mood swings, tension and the eventual catharsis. I love it...but I don't think Sara would (based on how she's described her wants here, and based on the performances she's found appealing so far).

Yes, Sarge, I know...but bear in mind that Sara's discovered how much she likes MTT's Mahler, and that many who find fault with him claim that his approach is too much like Lenny.  I'm suggesting that she actually hear some of Lenny's later recordings before making a judgment about them...especially since she can get a taste of them for free via Spotify.  If she wants to go in the other direction, toward less "interventionist" but still lovingly well-played and consistent performances, I'd suggest Gielen and Kubelik first, both available in discounted box sets...and also on Spotify.   (But I'll bet she'll be intrigued by Sinopoli's recordings, too!)

[Lethevich]

Kubelik was my go-to initially, a kind of catch-all for a sensitive, naturalistic, virtuoso performance of each piece. What I discovered with MTT and then Abbado and Neumann was that if anything Kubelik was still a little too tense for me (despite being considered an objective interpreter), and that may explain why I hadn't entirely come to enjoy the composer's style until I heard MTT. Gielen I quite like but find it a bit 'tough'. I think I want girly Mahler.

I'm surprised that Tilson Thomas has been compared to Bernstein in these pieces, as the main thing I got from his recordings was a fairly delicate treatment of each individual moment of the music. The chamber parts sound rounded and limpid, the transitions are safely negotiated rather than forcefully driven through, etc. Bernstein's reputation in the works that I have understood is that he is quite forceful in what he is trying to make them say.

Sinopoli, for example, I enjoyed in the 7th because I was already familiar with the work - the colours he brought out were beautiful - but overall his performances feel as though they have concepts to them, or to some degree he is wanting to perform the works differently - and to do that, the music (however slightly) is distorted, and I appear to be excessively sensitive to these intepretive distortions when they underline tension in the music that is already there.* So hard to describe ;_;

*Run-on sentence of the week.

[Sergeant Rock]

Yes, Sarge, I know...but bear in mind that Sara's discovered how much she likes MTT's Mahler, and that many who find fault with him claim that his approach is too much like Lenny.

That makes sense...if you (not you specifically) think Lenny and MTT have much in common interpretively. I don't think they do. MTT doesn't have Lenny's OTT quality; doesn't have the extremes Lenny does. Lenny's style simply doesn't fit her current criteria. It would be cool if she heard and was blown away by, for example, the first movement of the Second, or the last movements of Lenny's First or Sixth. I don't think that's going to happen though. But I'll be happy if it does 

Sarge 

[madaboutmahler]

Silly? Oh my... That trumpet theme is the Austrian military's Generalmarsch, used not only by Mahler but Haydn in the second movement of his 100th (the call to "battle" before all hell breaks loose...well, Classically restrained hell anyway  ); the same theme used by Mendelssohn in his funeral march (Op.62/3 Songs without Words). So Mahler is part of a grand tradition. The opening also comes from Mahler's memory of childhood, living near an army barracks, the death of six infant siblings (in this movement he quotes his own Kindertotenlieder). So we have a triumphant military call to arms dissolving almost instantly into a funeral march of utter despair. Silly? It's not an adjective I'd use to describe the music. Neumann's Czech Fifth I recommend for you. He downplays the hysteria.

I can forgive you for thinking the Brian Seventh opening "silly." It does have an over-the-top Englishness about it, an almost imperialist swagger that's discredited in some (most?) British minds today. I don't hear it that way, though, and I doubt Brian intended it so. But like some Elgar, I can understand how it could be hard to swallow.

Sarge

Thank goodness for Sarge! 

but... Well, we Mahlerites will continue to pray for you 

Sarge

We certainly do!

[mc ukrneal]

Kubelik was my go-to initially, a kind of catch-all for a sensitive, naturalistic, virtuoso performance of each piece. What I discovered with MTT and then Abbado and Neumann was that if anything Kubelik was still a little too tense for me (despite being considered an objective interpreter), and that may explain why I hadn't entirely come to enjoy the composer's style until I heard MTT. Gielen I quite like but find it a bit 'tough'. I think I want girly Mahler.

Kubelik was the first one I heard too, and although I love him in so many other pieces, I also have never warmed to him in Mahler. I wonder what you would think of Kondrashin. He has a no-nosense approach that I embraced immediately. I don't think he's girly, but he doesn't over emphasize things either. He can be harder to find though.

[Sergeant Rock]

Kubelik was the first one I heard too, and although I love him in so many other pieces, I also have never warmed to him in Mahler.

It's taken me forty years to finally get to a point where I can appreciate (not yet love) Kubelik. Well, his Fifth I love. Still working on the rest.

Sarge

[Lethevich]

Does anyone have an opinion on Edo de Waart's cycle on RCA? It's almost never mentioned, and consequently has a kind of mysterious allure to me.

[Sergeant Rock]

Does anyone have an opinion on Edo de Waart's cycle on RCA? It's almost never mentioned, and consequently has a kind of mysterious allure to me.

Eddie the Wart's cycle flew completely under my radar. Don't know anything about it.

Sarge

[Sergeant Rock]

Reading the Gramophone review of de Waart's cycle doesn't give me reason to seek it out. It begins

"...de Waart pursues no very radical agenda. His orchestra may not have the sheer clout of its big-name rivals but, flattered by the acoustic bloom of Amsterdam's Concertgebouw, its musicians deliver straightforward, unaffected renditions which will give pleasure to those for whom the conductor's task is to secure an accurate presentation of the score rather than to fashion a distinctive personal statement."

and ends

"I cannot pretend that either of these cycles would earn a permanent place on my shelves in the face of the alternatives listed above. Whatever its technical flaws, the Mahler of Hermann Scherchen and Bruno Walter was never dull. De Waart's can be, and Ozawa's almost invariably is."


Sarge

[kishnevi]

Reading the Gramophone review of de Waart's cycle doesn't give me reason to seek it out. It begins

"...de Waart pursues no very radical agenda. His orchestra may not have the sheer clout of its big-name rivals but, flattered by the acoustic bloom of Amsterdam's Concertgebouw, its musicians deliver straightforward, unaffected renditions which will give pleasure to those for whom the conductor's task is to secure an accurate presentation of the score rather than to fashion a distinctive personal statement."

and ends

"I cannot pretend that either of these cycles would earn a permanent place on my shelves in the face of the alternatives listed above. Whatever its technical flaws, the Mahler of Hermann Scherchen and Bruno Walter was never dull. De Waart's can be, and Ozawa's almost invariably is."


Sarge

well, not making a personal statement might be a personal statement....but Mahler dull?

DULL?  DULL? DULL? DULL?

That in itself is a remarkable achievement.

[Lethevich]

Dull? Hmm, I might have to check this out, it sounds right up my alley.

[eyeresist]

Dull? Hmm, I might have to check this out, it sounds right up my alley.

Just here to mention the Bertini set again. It really is a grower (apart from 3 and maybe 7). Amazon UK has it for 17 pounds, before shipping.

BTW, what is with Amazon UK's free shipping offer? When I buy something, I see two tickboxes: Pay regular shipping, and FREE shipping. So I tick "free shipping" and they send it to me with free shipping. What's up with that?

Anyway, between the Bertini, Rattle and Tennstedt boxes, I find I have the makings of a very satisfactory cycle. EMI must just love me!

[Opus106]

BTW, what is with Amazon UK's free shipping offer? When I buy something, I see two tickboxes: Pay regular shipping, and FREE shipping. So I tick "free shipping" and they send it to me with free shipping. What's up with that?

For nearly a year now (AFAIK), they have been offering FSSS (Free Super-Saver Shipping) on items shipped to Oz, NZ, India and South Africa. They have also extended the offer's last date a few times.

[eyeresist]

For nearly a year now (AFAIK), they have been offering FSSS (Free Super-Saver Shipping) on items shipped to Oz, NZ, India and South Africa. They have also extended the offer's last date a few times.

Thanks! Glad that somebody knows the score. Now I'll have to figure out when the deal expires - hopefully not just yet.

[johndoe21ro]

I got Fischer's 6th and 4th symphonies... Absolutely magnificent.
Behold, a glimpse at the magnificent 1st:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xAq2YEozQEo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Lk5jumzdQ0Y

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z_TrX9rSVXM

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1zQQReZPUUI

My 4th is Linn Studio Mastered Hi-Res and the sound is exquisite. Beautifully separated, nicely detailed, very dynamic and the soundstage is very wide and pretty deep... and.. Fischer is the man.

http://www.channelclassics.com/high-resolution-audio-downloads/fischer-26109.html

http://www.linnrecords.com/recording-gustav-mahler-budapest-festival-orchestra.aspx

[DavidRoss]

I got Fischer's 6th and 4th symphonies... Absolutely magnificent.

Yep. His 4th might just be my mostest favoritest of them all, along with MTT & Haitink's latest. Miah Persson nails it! And his 1st and 2nd are right in there, too.

[San Antone]

I think I'm with Sarge concerning Abbado. I often find his Mahler lacking something that extra bit special, which conductors such as Bernstein and Solti give it. Really beggining to enjoy Tilson Thomas' Mahler as well!

This is interesting to me since I enjoy both Abbado (Berlin big box) and Bernstein (NYP).  I am now listening to Chailly/RCO (5th) and really liking his interpretation, and am on my way to MTT.  Klemperer's 9th also landed for me.

Not that I am an expert concerning Mahler, my listening history with this composer has been spotty over a long period of time. 

[MishaK]

I am now listening to Chailly/RCO (5th)

An instant classic. And gloriously recorded. Heard Chailly do Mahler 5 live twice, once with RCO once with Leipzig.

[jlaurson]

There are obviously lots of recommendations on the dedicated sites to the symphonies... but this includes a little side-bar with my favorite Mahler recordings where, whenever there where two or more candidates vying for the spot, I've chosen the slightly less well traveled path.

latest on ionarts... or actually just dusting off of a post that has languished for almost ten years after WETA dumped their blog including the Mahler survey I wrote for them. Here is, at nearly-last (Symphony 4 has yet to be restored), the Introduction:

Gustav Mahler – A Brief Introduction



http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2016/04/gustav-mahler-brief-introduction.html