Who the better Classical Composer, Yanni or Enya?

[knight66]

Thanks guys for the thoughtful replies. I do think this is an interesting question, we can move on from how it was posed surely and engage with our new friend. I know we have discussed this subject before, but that was then, this is now and we have new people throwing thoughts into the mix.

Mike

[m_gigena]

Here in Finland the Classic Radio isn't that bad but Hollywood movie soundtracks are played sometimes as classical music.

It wasn't film soundtracks. What you heard was THE COPLAND HOUR. 

[Don]

Perhaps if the classical community would pay more attention to people with my opinion, their community orchestra's would be able to stay open and cd sales wouldn't be below that of esoteric metal genres.

CD sales are doing just fine.  If not, new releases wouldn't be flowing at the current strong pace.

You seem to advocate the notion that classical music is doing poorly and needs to incorporate additional categories.  I'll pass, since I'm quite pleased with its state.

[Catison]

Of course this whole discussion presupposes classical music at one time actually had a mass audience.  I don't believe it ever did or it ever will.  To enjoy classical music, it requires patience and knowledge.  Those two luxurious items have always been scarce.  The difference now is the distribution of wealth.  Classical music was (and still is to most extents) the music of the relatively educated and wealthy.  For most of the past 500 years, education and wealth were restricted to a high class of individuals who wandered through royalty and society.  As an influential middle class has arisen throughout the modern world, unfortunately, education (at least musically) and patience have not come with it.  The middle class now makes up such a majority, that popular music needn't concern itself with any other group to be successful monetarily.  Now anyone with gifted albeit amateur talent can become a superstar.  And it is these superstars, put up on a pedestal by the middle class, who get all the attention.

And so what?  Classical music is still available to those who are willing to put forth the patience to listen.  I would even venture to say the audience has grown, because recorded music is so easily available and cheap.  Pop music, of course, has also grown thanks to recordings, perhaps even because of recordings.  It has grown at such a faster rate than classical that it eclipses it, but should that matter?  I don't think anyone would have predicted anything different.  What I don't think is that pop music has grown at the expense of classical.

Classical music will do quite fine, regardless of the state of pop.  It has always been there, and probably always will be, as it is today.  The difference is that now it is harder to see, but so what?  That's not a death.

[Mark G. Simon]

We have been through that period of time where a lot of families and groups were deeply involved with classical music. But like anything else from that time period it has ended. The times have changed, and almost everything we do today has to do with quick and easy access.

I guess what we can do is to do as much as we can to help the community and get engaged if we can, but we should never again expect a mass interest in classical music.

This is a truly sad state of affairs. I recall the comments of an older acquaintance from Germany. I saw him at a concert and he said "You Americans have such wonderful professional musicians, but where are your amateurs?" He recalled how in his youth in Germany, people played violins and cellos as a hobby and would gather in each others houses to play chamber music for recreation. He didn't see that happening in present day U.S.

The reason for this, of course, is that now people can get their music without having to learn how to play it. Recordings have made us lazy. And the media which disseminate recorded music have changed the nature of the music they disseminate, favoring short pieces of a consistent length (short), style and dynamic level (i.e. loud). The ease with which modern media dissiminates music to people, whether they want to hear it or not, has in turn altered the idea of what an "audience" is, and inflated the numbers necessary to acheive a "mass audience". Gone are the days when one could be like Ulysses Grant and "know only two tunes. One of them is Yankee Doodle and the other one isn't". Now everyone has no choice but to know hundreds of tunes. People who in older times would simply have nothing to do with music are now encouraged to use music as sonic wallpaper, to be ignored at their whim. They are, like it or not, part of the mass audience.

[karlhenning]

Fine posts, Brett & Mark.

[71 dB]

It wasn't film soundtracks. What you heard was THE COPLAND HOUR. 

They hardly ever play Copland, the soudtracks are by John Williams, Ennio Morricone, James Horner, etc.

[DavidW]

People who in older times would simply have nothing to do with music are now encouraged to use music as sonic wallpaper, to be ignored at their whim. They are, like it or not, part of the mass audience.

I've finally come to the conclusion that it's better to listen to music once in a month with your whole undivided attention than it is to listen to music all the time in the background.  I listen with no regular frequency, sometimes once in a month, sometimes more than once in a day, just dictated by my mood.  I find it much more satisfying that way.

I was kind of thinking that movies and tv shows reinforce the idea of music as sonic wallpaper.  Dear forumites, where have you encountered the use of music being treated as background? 

[Cato]

I've finally come to the conclusion that it's better to listen to music once in a month with your whole undivided attention than it is to listen to music all the time in the background.  I listen with no regular frequency, sometimes once in a month, sometimes more than once in a day, just dictated by my mood.  I find it much more satisfying that way.

I was kind of thinking that movies and tv shows reinforce the idea of music as sonic wallpaper.  Dear forumites, where have you encountered the use of music being treated as background? 

Court composers in the good ol' days cranked out "background music" quite a bit: a new string quartet did not necessarily make everyone in the room quiet.

[DavidW]

Court composers in the good ol' days cranked out "background music" quite a bit: a new string quartet did not necessarily make everyone in the room quiet.

I would like to imagine that Beethoven changed that attitude, at least towards his music, or was he known for writing sonic wallpaper from time to time as well?

[George]

I've finally come to the conclusion that it's better to listen to music once in a month with your whole undivided attention than it is to listen to music all the time in the background.  I listen with no regular frequency, sometimes once in a month, sometimes more than once in a day, just dictated by my mood.  I find it much more satisfying that way.

Indeed, David! I try to do nothing else when I listen, and I listen to less music as a result, but boy do I enjoy it more! For that matter, I try to do the same with eating, working and anything else. "Just listening" or "Just eating" or "Just _____" is the way to go IMO. This way life becomes one long meditation. 


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Now as to the question about what makes something classical. Well, nothing is classical is it? Its just a word we use to label the (imaginary) box that we've placed Beethoven, Palestrina, Mozart, Ligeti into. Does anyone really thing that rock, pop and rap existed in 1600 or 1800? Back then it was just music. Did Beethoven refer to his work as "classical?" No, he just wrote music. It still is that way, Enya writes music. Ol Dirty Bastard writes music. I guess people get confused, so we've created these neat little categories to put composers in.

When a modern composer uses a snare drum, do I think that it suddenly becomes like what the Beatles did with a snare drum? No. When the Beatles uses a harpsichord in one of their songs, do I think that its like Rameau? No. Is one better than the other? No. It's all just people making sound with instruments. One persons music is another persons noise. Just ask your grandparents to listen to the new System of a Down.  Seriously though, when someone sits at the piano to play Ligeti, another could hear it as noise, another as music. They are both right in a relative sense, but in an absolute sense they are both wrong. It's neither music nor noise. It's just sound. It's just a person interacting with an instrument to create sound.

I've said before and I'll say it again; sound/music, music/noise, good/bad, Classical/Rock, Yanni/Enya. These are distinctions that only exist in our minds. Therefore they are not real. Things that aren't real don't mean anything to me. I don't see why they should.   

[m_gigena]

I've said before and I'll say it again; sound/music, music/noise, good/bad, Classical/Rock, Yanni/Enya. These are distinctions that only exist in our minds.

I tend to think Yanni and Enya actually exist out of my mind as separate things. 

[George]

I tend to think Yanni and Enya actually exist out of my mind as separate things. 

It sure is easier that way, isn't it? 

[Cato]

I would like to imagine that Beethoven changed that attitude, at least towards his music, or was he known for writing sonic wallpaper from time to time as well?

Certainly you get the impression that Beethoven wanted your full attention.  His attitude toward aristocrats was not always the politest!

[DavidW]

Indeed, David! I try to do nothing else when I listen, and I listen to less music as a result, but boy do I enjoy it more! For that matter, I try to do the same with eating, working and anything else. "Just listening" or "Just eating" or "Just _____" is the way to go IMO. This way life becomes one long meditation. 

I read that even though people try to multitask everything in their daily lives, the human brain wasn't built that way.  We were meant to just concentrate on one thing at a time, and when we try to do more than that, we do neither task well.

I'm totally with you, I do one thing at a time now, and really try to concentrate on it.  I actually get more done, and it feels more rewarding.

That's cool, we're on the same wavelength here.

[DavidW]

Certainly you get the impression that Beethoven wanted your full attention.  His attitude toward aristocrats was not always the politest!

Haha, Beethoven is like the true originator of the punk genre.

[Mystery]

I hadn't heard of Yanni until now - so went to watch him on YouTube - you should try it! :-)