Haydn's Haus

[Ken B]

Sorry to interrupt a nice flow going here, but I would like a recommendation for a good Haydn bio.  I prefer long biographies, assuming they are well written--three volumes would be better than two, for example.  If it tells a lot of tangential historical-contextual stuff, so much the better.  Any recommendations?  I have Rosen's "classical style", by the way, but haven't started it.   Thanks.

Boswell's Life of Haydn
Surprised you haven't read it.

[Florestan]

Oh I'm sure. Just wanted to make the difference between "musical HIP" and "literary HIP". Stendhal or Dante or Homer are the same forever and ever amen. Haydn, OTOH... 

Now that I think more seriously about it, it is a most interesting issue.

Gurn, you are the most knowledgeable Haydnista in residence, so here's one for you --- if you would have to choose between a 2014 performance of a Haydn's work (HIP included), and a 1814 (which is to say, just one year prior to the publishing of Stendhal's Vies de Haydn, Mozart et Metastasio) performance of the same work, which one would you choose? Which one would be more authentic on your opinion?

[kishnevi]

Now that I think more seriously about it, it is a most interesting issue.

Gurn, you are the most knowledgeable Haydnista in residence, so here's one for you --- if you would have to choose between a 2014 performance of a Haydn's work (HIP included), and a 1814 (which is to say, just one year prior to the publishing of Stendhal's Vies de Haydn, Mozart et Metastasio) performance of the same work, which one would you choose? Which one would be more authentic on your opinion?

Early or late work?  After all in 1814 Haydn had been immortal for only five years.
A performance of the London symphonies would be on instruments and by performers trained in the soundworld of Haydn's last years, and might count as authentic per se.  You are talking about a time gap there that equals the gap between us and Morricone's Fourth Concerto, after all.  But if you are thinking of one of the symphonies from the 1760-1775 period, the differences would be more pronounced.

[Gurn Blanston]

If you want something HIP, try Stendhal's Vie de Haydn.

Available in original French here.

Because --- if musical HIP is all right, then why not literary HIP as well? 

Fine, except that Stendahl was a plagiarizing crank.   I know you were joking, Florestan...

This is a good choice (I have every imaginable book I think):

[asin]0253372658[/asin]

This is another:
[asin]0802868525[/asin]

Fairly short but quite detailed, and the latest and greatest info (just released this year).

There are certainly larger ones, but they cost a fortune and I don't know if you want all that anyway.

Geiringer is good (Creative Life in Music), but hard to follow, he gets a wild hair about something and pretty soon he has moved 20 years down the road without notice. Lots of info though if you can keep it straight.

There are others if these don't please, but don't buy an old book, they are generally full of crap.

[Gurn Blanston]

Now that I think more seriously about it, it is a most interesting issue.

Gurn, you are the most knowledgeable Haydnista in residence, so here's one for you --- if you would have to choose between a 2014 performance of a Haydn's work (HIP included), and a 1814 (which is to say, just one year prior to the publishing of Stendhal's Vies de Haydn, Mozart et Metastasio) performance of the same work, which one would you choose? Which one would be more authentic on your opinion?

Stendahl wrote only shit about Haydn; he got a copy of Carpani who had some undocumented and second-hand info to start with, and he pirated it from Italian into French and passed it off as original work. So really, it's a no-brainer.

If you want authentic this is the only possible choice:

[asin]0299027945[/asin]

Gotwals translated them from German, but both of these guys had extended stays with Haydn over the last 10 years of his life, and all you have to do is take out a little hero-worship plus the memory lapses of an old man and you have true authenticity. 

[Ken B]

I know you were joking, Florestan...

Not so fast! I think Flory is arguing that as mankind makes progress we understand more and understand it better. Our understanding of electrical forces is greater than Einstein's, which was greater than Maxwell's which was greater than Faraday's which was greater than Franklin's which was greater than ... and so on. In like manner we progress artistically. Thus  Boulez understood music  better than Stravinsky who understood it better than Brahms who understood it better than Schubert ....

I think it is completely misguided myself, though I know it drives the thinking of many. I am surprised to see Florestan advance this view.But I am sure he has his reasons.

[Madiel]

I keep meaning to hunt down the Cambridge Companion. I've seen samples of it on Google Books and thought it was just my cup of tea. Probably not something that would count as a biography though.

[Gurn Blanston]

I keep meaning to hunt down the Cambridge Companion. I've seen samples of it on Google Books and thought it was just my cup of tea. Probably not something that would count as a biography though.

No, not a biography, but there are several interesting essays in it, and you don't need a profound knowledge of music theory to be enlightened by them either. As it happens, it is on my reading table right now for the essay about opera I used in my last essay!   

[Madiel]

No, not a biography, but there are several interesting essays in it, and you don't need a profound knowledge of music theory to be enlightened by them either. As it happens, it is on my reading table right now for the essay about opera I used in my last essay!   

What I most liked about the bits I've seen is that there's fairly concise information about groups of works. For instance, I think I first came across it because it had a nice succinct table of the groups of piano trios published in the 1790s.

[Gurn Blanston]

What I most liked about the bits I've seen is that there's fairly concise information about groups of works. For instance, I think I first came across it because it had a nice succinct table of the groups of piano trios published in the 1790s.

Yes, I thought the essay on exoticisms was interesting, and the one by Tom Beghin on performing the sonatas. IIRC, the one you are talking about was the one about trios and sonatas and the audience (and players) they were written for. I like that it doesn't concern itself with one particular genre, but hits on a little bit of everything. It (and others like it) made me think about more than my immediate enthusiasms! There are that one and a couple of others here, you may see some other essays you would like. The book "Haydn and his World" is a nice choice along those lines.

[Mookalafalas]

Thanks, All. I got the Geringer and the Stapert.  Wanted the Robbins Landis, but could not get it shipped to Taiwan for a reasonable price.

   Cannot see the "Searching for Haydn" at all, which amazes me.  I generally have good resources for stuff like that...

[Gurn Blanston]

Thanks, All. I got the Geringer and the Stapert.  Wanted the Robbins Landis, but could not get it shipped to Taiwan for a reasonable price.

   Cannot see the "Searching for Haydn" at all, which amazes me.  I generally have good resources for stuff like that...

Very good, I think that is a good start for bios. I liked the Stapert, even though the title makes you think of some religious connection, I can assure you there isn't one. It is just a passing reference to Haydn's personal philosophy, which is fair. Stapert walks through a couple of works in a most interesting way: I only wish he had done more that way. I wish I could do that myself. 

You have to get lucky on the Landon/Jones book. I found it one day for $15!  It's a big book, probably why it costs a lot to ship. But the BIG Landon book is a 5 volume set which can be had for ~$800 US, then you have to ship it. In MY book, that's prohibitive! 

[Mookalafalas]

You have to get lucky on the Landon/Jones book. I found it one day for $15! 

  There's a used, signed copy at Amazon for $18, and a cheaper one on ebay, for anyone interested.  Actually, I'm interested, but I just bought two other books, and my eyes are often bigger than my stomach...  There's a new Beethoven bio which looks very promising.  I came close to adding that to my purchase.

[EigenUser]

Very good, I think that is a good start for bios. I liked the Stapert, even though the title makes you think of some religious connection, I can assure you there isn't one. It is just a passing reference to Haydn's personal philosophy, which is fair. Stapert walks through a couple of works in a most interesting way: I only wish he had done more that way. I wish I could do that myself. 

You have to get lucky on the Landon/Jones book. I found it one day for $15!  It's a big book, probably why it costs a lot to ship. But the BIG Landon book is a 5 volume set which can be had for ~$800 US, then you have to ship it. In MY book, that's prohibitive! 

I really wish that I had bought that $400 Landon book from that closing music store (the 800-page one on the symphonies). Not that I would have paid anywhere near that, but when I saw that book it was the first time I went to the music store -- before I knew the lady that sold me scores at unspeakably low prices (the last day I calculated $500 worth for a total of $35). The second time I went there it was gone .

[Ken B]

I really wish that I had bought that $400 Landon book from that closing music store (the 800-page one on the symphonies). Not that I would have paid anywhere near that, but when I saw that book it was the first time I went to the music store -- before I knew the lady that sold me scores at unspeakably low prices (the last day I calculated $500 worth for a total of $35). The second time I went there it was gone .

That'll learn ya to post where I can get the address.

You missed the big Messiaen sale too. Gawd that was a lot to carry.

[EigenUser]

That'll learn ya to post where I can get the address.

You missed the big Messiaen sale too. Gawd that was a lot to carry.

(sorry, off-topic )

[Florestan]

Not so fast! I think Flory is arguing that as mankind makes progress we understand more and understand it better. Our understanding of electrical forces is greater than Einstein's, which was greater than Maxwell's which was greater than Faraday's which was greater than Franklin's which was greater than ... and so on. In like manner we progress artistically. Thus  Boulez understood music  better than Stravinsky who understood it better than Brahms who understood it better than Schubert ...

I think it is completely misguided myself, though I know it drives the thinking of many. I am surprised to see Florestan advance this view.But I am sure he has his reasons.

Not at all. Nevermind, I was just joking in the first post and being provocative in the second. 

[Karl Henning]

  There's a used, signed copy at Amazon for $18

Well, da Haus remains quite the dangerous place for me . . . .

[Old Listener]

I was doing a comparison between Harnoncourt's and Hogwood's Haydn, and then started listening to Abbado's 100-102 symphonies, and then went through all my CDs, culled all the Haydn discs and put them in a (fairly substantial) pile next to my player...I think it's time for a Haydn binge

Add the Abbado/COE Sinfonia Concertante to the pile.  Originally coupled with Sym. 96 which is also very fine.

[Karl Henning]

You have to get lucky on the Landon/Jones book. I found it one day for $15!  It's a big book, probably why it costs a lot to ship. But the BIG Landon book is a 5 volume set which can be had for ~$800 US, then you have to ship it. In MY book, that's prohibitive! 

  There's a used, signed copy at Amazon for $18, and a cheaper one on ebay, for anyone interested.

Aye, I snapped that one up.  There is a copy at the Boston Public Library, which on a time I checked out;  that copy has, shall we say, seen some wear.  So an $18 copy for mine own library is a deal.