Haydn's Haus

[JBS]

And then you have annoying situations like Dantone recording 78-81 to fill out a box set, meaning that 76-77 aren't available unless you plump for that entire box set, because they were only ever on an obscure BBC music magazine disc.

This is the AmazonUS listing for Hogwood's 76/77, if you're willing to pay at least US$20 and contact the sellers independent of Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Symphonies-Nos-77-76/dp/B000IJS0U0/ref=mp_s_a_1_31

[Madiel]

This is the AmazonUS listing for Hogwood's 76/77, if you're willing to pay at least US$20 and contact the sellers independent of Amazon.
https://www.amazon.com/Haydn-Symphonies-Nos-77-76/dp/B000IJS0U0/ref=mp_s_a_1_31

As an Australian, Amazon marketplace listings are off limits to me. Because one of the largest companies in the world threw a hissy fit over Australian law and wailed about how it was all too hard. And I suspect they have rules about contacting sellers independently - plus of course you lose all the protections.

EDIT: In fact, Amazon have now changed their site so that it's literally impossible for me to see who those sellers even are. It just flat out announces that no, they're not available to me. One of the used copies is apparently available, for $27.75 plus nearly $15 shipping. It won't tell me a thing about the other copies.

eBay, on the other hand. I can do eBay. That's where I'm finding Fischer for example.

SECOND EDIT: And a number of copies of the Hogwood 76/77. Some of them not horrifying in price.

[Daverz]

Anyone heard this Op. 50 by the Quatuor Zaïde?



Don't recall this recording mentioned anywhere.

...OK, I found the main Amazon listing with some comments: https://www.amazon.com/Joseph-Haydn-String-Quartets-op-50/dp/B01AKA4S2K

[JBS]

As an Australian, Amazon marketplace listings are off limits to me. Because one of the largest companies in the world threw a hissy fit over Australian law and wailed about how it was all too hard. And I suspect they have rules about contacting sellers independently - plus of course you lose all the protections.

EDIT: In fact, Amazon have now changed their site so that it's literally impossible for me to see who those sellers even are. It just flat out announces that no, they're not available to me. One of the used copies is apparently available, for $27.75 plus nearly $15 shipping. It won't tell me a thing about the other copies.

eBay, on the other hand. I can do eBay. That's where I'm finding Fischer for example.

SECOND EDIT: And a number of copies of the Hogwood 76/77. Some of them not horrifying in price.

If Amazon doesn't sell you stuff, I don't see any reason why you should pay attention to their rules.  Some MP sellers are big enough to have independent websites. In fact, the one with the listing of the cheapest copy is Half Price Books, which has indeed its own website. But the website doesn't list the Hogwood CD. (At least, not under the keyword Haydn.)
It does seem to have a few cheap copies of various Fischer subsets.

BTW that $ 27.75 copy is the most expensive one.

[71 dB]

If Amazon doesn't sell you stuff, I don't see any reason why you should pay attention to their rules.  Some MP sellers are big enough to have independent websites. In fact, the one with the listing of the cheapest copy is Half Price Books, which has indeed its own website. But the website doesn't list the Hogwood CD. (At least, not under the keyword Haydn.)
It does seem to have a few cheap copies of various Fischer subsets.

BTW that $ 27.75 copy is the most expensive one.

We non-americans see only the $ 27.75 copy. It doesn't show the other ones. Amazon.com serves really only Americans these days. Maybe it's Covid-19. I don't know.

[Madiel]

If Amazon doesn't sell you stuff, I don't see any reason why you should pay attention to their rules.  Some MP sellers are big enough to have independent websites. In fact, the one with the listing of the cheapest copy is Half Price Books, which has indeed its own website. But the website doesn't list the Hogwood CD. (At least, not under the keyword Haydn.)
It does seem to have a few cheap copies of various Fischer subsets.

BTW that $ 27.75 copy is the most expensive one.

I do go to other websites to some extent, though to be honest with American companies it can be a real challenge getting clarity as to whether they will ship to me. It varies, but some of them just don't conceive of a world outside the US and Canada.

Or... I can just eBay. Honestly, in my last big binge last year, my eBay experience was so positive and my Amazon experience was so terrible, I can see little reason to go back. Not every eBay seller is great, but there are enough great ones to make it far more reliable, not least because all of the eBay systems for getting information actually work. Half of the time on Amazon I'd just go round in circles.

Presto Classical and eBay are now my standard ports of call.

[amw]

Anyone heard this Op. 50 by the Quatuor Zaïde?



Don't recall this recording mentioned anywhere.

...OK, I found the main Amazon listing with some comments: https://www.amazon.com/Joseph-Haydn-String-Quartets-op-50/dp/B01AKA4S2K

Haven't heard it, but want to. (The fact that the reviewer who gave it only 2 stars considers the Tokyo Quartet a reference recording, where I'd give the Tokyo Quartet only about 2 stars myself, makes me think I'd probably like it.)

If there are any excerpts to sample to get an idea of a particular ensemble's approach in op. 50, the slow movements of op. 50/1 and 50/3 would be the main ones, I think.

[Madiel]

Well, I just sampled Fischer in symphonies 78-81, and then Dantone in the same.

Fischer, hands down.

Dantone's orchestra just sounds a bit ugly, and also aggressive. Given that I like the Hogwood set I was surprised at this, when Dantone was kind of a supplement to Hogwood. There are things that sound like it's supposed to be Haydn's humour, but the joke is being told by a large and somewhat drunk man and everyone else in the room is shuffling uncomfortably. It feels too rough and coarse for Beethoven.

[JBS]

Well, I just sampled Fischer in symphonies 78-81, and then Dantone in the same.

Fischer, hands down.

Dantone's orchestra just sounds a bit ugly, and also aggressive. Given that I like the Hogwood set I was surprised at this, when Dantone was kind of a supplement to Hogwood. There are things that sound like it's supposed to be Haydn's humour, but the joke is being told by a large and somewhat drunk man and everyone else in the room is shuffling uncomfortably. It feels too rough and coarse for Beethoven.

Broad generalizations are always erroneous, but as a broad generalization I think it's fair to say the difference you heard is the difference between Hogwood and Dantone throughout their repertoire.

[Jo498]

I don't think that considerations of "fit" with the older Hogwood recordings went into picking Dantone as conductor for closing that gap in the Decca Haydn set. Not sure if I have heard any conducting by Dantone, I have a few harpsichord or organ recordings (WTC II, Goldberg, Handel suites) and they are all quite good although more "liberal" than I'd expect Hogwood to play.

Fischer does have some austro-hungarian charm but his Haydn can also have a few rough spots. The most "elegant" and perfect playing is probably served by the Orpheus CO. I'd have to re-listen to add anything of value, but as above I'd recommend both Fischer and Orpheus, if one can get them at decent prices.

[Madiel]

I don't want fully elegant to the point of utter smoothness, but Dantone goes too far the other way. I'll be buying the Fischer.

[Madiel]

I am in increasing danger of wanting to go through the whole of Gurn's blog very slowly and carefully to get a proper picture of the chronology of Haydn's work.

I'm slightly terrified.

[JBS]

I am in increasing danger of wanting to go through the whole of Gurn's blog very slowly and carefully to get a proper picture of the chronology of Haydn's work.

I'm slightly terrified.

It's a very enjoyable read. Have no fear.
ETA: meaning have no fear of anything worse than finding more recordings you might want to buy.

[Karl Henning]

I am in increasing danger of wanting to go through the whole of Gurn's blog very slowly and carefully to get a proper picture of the chronology of Haydn's work.

I'm slightly terrified.

Embrace your destiny.

[Scion7]

I was on a du Pre´ binge today, Gurn!
My vinyl is still very pristine for this one, even being 40+ years.

[Madiel]

Embrace your destiny.

Current phase of destiny: await op.33 Mosaiques in the mail, buy Fischer symphonies box to fill the gap and then get the Beaux Arts piano trios. Plus a flute option for the 3 flute trios.

[vandermolen]

I've been enjoying symphony 104 'London'. The majestic opening took me totally by surprise. This and 'Hornsignal' have been my favourites of the two Mackerras recordings with the Orchestra of St Luke's on Telarc:

[Jo498]

It is probably too general a feature to count as imitation or inspiration but both the introduction of Beethoven's 2nd symphony and the first forte passage/main theme of his 9th seem to echo the majestic d minor intro of Haydn's 104 (and then later you also have Bruckner with similar gestures in abundance).
Very impressive for me is how Haydn takes the most trivial part of the main theme of the first movement (ta-ta-ta-ta-taa-taam) as main material for the development. Making something from almost nothing is often mentioned in context with Beethoven but Haydn was already a master of this. And in the slow movement it is impressive how the seemingly simple, songlike theme gives rise to sublime and serious music in the course of the movement (again a particularly strong instance of something Haydn does very frequently in his mature music).

[Biffo]

I have also been splurging on Haydn.

Several years ago there was a seller on ebay who sold broken-up Brilliant boxes.  I managed to buy most of the Fischer/AHHO cycle of symphonies except for a gap in the middle - Nos 30 - 51. Over the years I sporadically managed to fill a few gaps but not many. As a result of this thread I was prompted to buy a couple of boxes (on Nimbus) to fill the gaps. Nos 40-54 arrived yesterday, Nos 21-39, A&B is on its way. There is some overlap with what I have already but it is a cost efficient way of plugging the gap.

I have also bought the Mackerras/St Luke's album with Nos 100, 101, 103 & 104 so I have plenty of Haydn symphonies to listen for a while. After that I think I will explore the String Quartets further.

[DaveF]

It is probably too general a feature to count as imitation or inspiration but both the introduction of Beethoven's 2nd symphony and the first forte passage/main theme of his 9th seem to echo the majestic d minor intro of Haydn's 104 (and then later you also have Bruckner with similar gestures in abundance).
Very impressive for me is how Haydn takes the most trivial part of the main theme of the first movement (ta-ta-ta-ta-taa-taam) as main material for the development. Making something from almost nothing is often mentioned in context with Beethoven but Haydn was already a master of this. And in the slow movement it is impressive how the seemingly simple, songlike theme gives rise to sublime and serious music in the course of the movement (again a particularly strong instance of something Haydn does very frequently in his mature music).

I'd be interested to hear what others think about this, but the development passage you mention in 104, where those 6 unremarkable notes are transformed in every imaginable way, strikes me as being completely beyond anything that Mozart ever achieved in his developments...