Haydn's Haus

[Opus106]

Although we can safely laugh at him.   Tin roofs be damned!

Oh, yes!

[Bogey]

Taken from the listening thread:

Excellent performance of the Haydn as one would expect from Brüggen (hard to imagine a more powerful earthquake)--but, unfortunately, marred by the inclusion of short, dissonant intermezzi between movements composed by Ron Ford; music inexplicably commissioned by Brüggen to fill in for spoken words. It's about as far from HIP as can be imagined. The intermezzi are not tracked separately and can't be avoided. I'm deeply puzzled by this messing about with the work. Brüggen's reasoning makes no sense. The booklet quotes him as saying, "The intermezzi are meant to be a worthy musical substitute for no music."  Huh?
Sarge

It is one thing to interpret....even guess what the composer would have tried with new instrumentation....but to just do your own thing because you are "feeling it"....nope.

[Antoine Marchand]

Interested in a summary report, Antoine. The good, the bad and the ugly! 

This will be a long travel, Gurn. 

[Gurn Blanston]

This will be a long travel, Gurn. 

In the meanwhile, I hope you will be taking a side street to listen to either or both of the disks I posted last night. Guess they are 5-10 pages back by now, but anyway, at least the symphonies disk was rec'd with you in mind.

[Leon]

inclusion of short, dissonant intermezzi between movements composed by Ron Ford; music inexplicably commissioned by Brüggen to fill in for spoken words.

However, adapting this work is not uncommon, but those for SQ, chorus and piano were all approved by Haydn - not this one.  That said, I find it some what humorous that dissonant outbursts are standing in for the words of a bishop speaking from a pulpit.

[Gurn Blanston]

However, adapting this work is not uncommon, but those for SQ, chorus and piano were all approved by Haydn - not this one.  That said, I find it some what humorous that dissonant outbursts are standing in for the words of a bishop speaking from a pulpit.

I can relate to that.  

"The intermezzi are meant to be a worthy musical substitute for no music" is one of those statements that only a Cato could parse. Savall uses the actual words, provided in the score by Haydn anyway. They are on separate tracks that one can program out (and I usually do). Atonal honking really is not an adequate substitute, especially when you can't program them out (although I would find a way). I will give this one a miss, I think, particularly since the Savall is so very satisfactory anyway.

[Sergeant Rock]

Atonal honking really is not an adequate substitute, especially when you can't program them out (although I would find a way).

One could rip the tracks and edit out the honking...but I'm just going to grit my teeth (and my ears  ) and listen as Brüggen intended. Someday I might stop cursing 

Sarge

[Antoine Marchand]

In the meanwhile, I hope you will be taking a side street to listen to either or both of the disks I posted last night. Guess they are 5-10 pages back by now, but anyway, at least the symphonies disk was rec'd with you in mind.

Are you referring to this post?

Purchases Today (transplanted  )

Just received these 2 in today's post. Listening to the symphonies now;



I had seen reviews of these here and there, enough to pique my curiosity. The Arion Baroque, led here by harpsichordist Gary Cooper, are indeed a 'real size' ensemble, in this case employing 17 musicians, which is very likely to be the precise number in the Esterhazy band at the time these works were composed (1768-71). Despite Mr. Hogwood's protestations, Cooper plays a harpsichord continuo. The justification for using a 3rd viola comes from Haydn's famous written instructions for the performance of the cantata "Applausus" from 1767, in which he urges the use of an extra viola to support the inner (instrumental) voices which frequently need it more than the upper and lower ones. In addition, since trumpets and timpani were only added on at the time of publication and didn't exist in the original autograph score of #41, they aren't used here in it either. The result is rather stunning actually. Whereas in every version (many!) that I've heard, one must struggle to pick out the amazing C maj Alto horns from the trumpets, here they stand out in a stark beauty that must be heard to be appreciated. I must admit, I am absolutely delighted so far (though still only in #44, another winner!). This is very HIP, unless you already really like PI and all it can do, you may be brought up short when you first hear it, esp. #41.

The baryton trio disk (well, I needed another one ) promises, by all I've read, to also be a winner. The barytonist, Balestracci, is reputed to be an actual virtuoso on the instrument. How rare is that?  We'll see shortly. The liner notes were highly interesting with a brief discussion of actually playing the instrument. I can't remember any baryton disk that went that direction before. Hope it lives up to my expectations, I'll let you know tomorrow.

[Gurn Blanston]

One could rip the tracks and edit out the honking...but I'm just going to grit my teeth (and my ears  ) and listen as Brüggen intended. Someday I might stop cursing 

Sarge

Yes, that's what I would do, especially now that I have a great flac editor. But yeah, maybe you will get used to it. Or not.

[Gurn Blanston]

Are you referring to this post?

Yes, that's the one.

[Antoine Marchand]

Yes, that's the one.

Both of them look interesting, specially the symphonies. Gary Cooper is a very reliable guy. 

Do you have this 2-CD set?

[Gurn Blanston]

Both of them look interesting, specially the symphonies. Gary Cooper is a very reliable guy. 

Do you have this 2-CD set?

I have the 2 single CD's that came out before the set did. I have those same works by the Esterhazy group with Piccolo Concerto Wien, and also by Huss's group. All good, as befits the music.

In any case, I very much recommend the symphonies, especially to you and Que. They are particularly nice.

[Elgarian]

Strongly recommended, Arnold. I am now listening to the beautiful extended Adagio opening movement of #49 in f and it is truly special.   0:)
[asin]B001OBT3LG[/asin]

I'll now ask an impossible question.

Given that I already have the Pinnock versions of these symphonies in the Sturm & Drang box, and since the splendid liveliness of those Pinnock symphonies are what really woke me up to Haydnism in the first place, are these Arion versions sufficiently different/better/scrunchy/rock&roll (delete as appropriate) to warrant me buying that disc? Bearing in mind that there's still an enormous amount of Haydn (a) that I don't own; or (b) that I do own but l haven't listened to or assimilated properly yet. Bearing in mind also that I'm still finding the Schornsheim set of keyboard concertos so delicious that I keep playing them over and over, instead of moving on to pastures new.

Simpler questions relating to the meaning of life, the precise length of a piece of string, and the origin of the angular momentum of spinning mice will follow.

[Gurn Blanston]

I'll now ask an impossible question.

Given that I already have the Pinnock versions of these symphonies in the Sturm & Drang box, and since the splendid liveliness of those Pinnock symphonies are what really woke me up to Haydnism in the first place, are these Arion versions sufficiently different/better/scrunchy/rock&roll (delete as appropriate) to warrant me buying that disc? Bearing in mind that there's still an enormous amount of Haydn (a) that I don't own; or (b) that I do own but l haven't listened to or assimilated properly yet. Bearing in mind also that I'm still finding the Schornsheim set of keyboard concertos so delicious that I keep playing them over and over, instead of moving on to pastures new.

Simpler questions relating to the meaning of life, the precise length of a piece of string, and the origin of the angular momentum of spinning mice will follow.

Ah, a 'why is there air?' question.  

Well, I found the stark reading of #41 revelatory, and the subsequent playing of 44 & 49 to be as good as any of the competition (and better than most). But that's just me; you may be looking for something else in a performance and say to yourself "Freakin' Gurn had a cranio-rectal inversion this go-round".

I don't know if you do online streaming at all. I don't, so I only know what people say. But if it is possible to stream this and give it a pre-listen, that might settle you for it. Then you can either whip out your credit card else breathe a sigh of relief that you avoided aural disaster! 

[chasmaniac]

the precise length of a piece of string

I might be a New Worlder, but I know where that comes from!

[DavidRoss]

Simpler questions relating to the meaning of life, the precise length of a piece of string, and the origin of the angular momentum of spinning mice will follow.

Are those African mice, or European mice?

[Que]

n any case, I very much recommend the symphonies, especially to you and Que. They are particularly nice.

Your description does make it sound like a really interesting recording!

Bearing in mind also that I'm still finding the Schornsheim set of keyboard concertos so delicious that I keep playing them over and over, instead of moving on to pastures new.

By all means - give yourself the time to relish in those delights!

Q

[Elgarian]

Are those African mice, or European mice?

Congratulations. You have provided the correct response, and your prize of ten dozen chocolate spinning mice is on its way to you.

[Elgarian]

Well, I found the stark reading of #41 revelatory, and the subsequent playing of 44 & 49 to be as good as any of the competition (and better than most). But that's just me; you may be looking for something else in a performance and say to yourself "Freakin' Gurn had a cranio-rectal inversion this go-round".

I don't know if you do online streaming at all. I don't, so I only know what people say. But if it is possible to stream this and give it a pre-listen, that might settle you for it. Then you can either whip out your credit card else breathe a sigh of relief that you avoided aural disaster! 

I don't do this 'streaming' thing either, but what I did was to set up the two sets of samples from the Pinnock set, and the Arion disc, and alternate my way through the three symphonies in 30-second samples. Being so far removed from what one actually does when listening properly, it seems a daft thing to do ... except, well, the differences are rather gobsmacking, really.

I should explain first that what shocked and delighted me when I first heard Pinnock's Haydn symphonies (last year, was it?) was that, unlike his Mozart symphonies, they weren't 'polite'. They rollicked, where rollicking is called for. Well, in the course of today's 30-second-bursts-of-machine-gun-fire type of comparative listening, I found that every time, the Arion recording blasted Pinnock out of the sky. I could hardly believe it, but Pinnock sounds tame, safe, and pretty, by comparison.

This is troubling, because it's going to change my attitude to the Pinnock box, I suspect. Unless, of course, I decide not to buy the Arion disc, and let the memory of this experiment quietly fade. But if I buy the Arion disc, I open up a whole can of Haydnistical Pinnockian worms.

Oh what to do? What to do?

[Gurn Blanston]

Part 13

1764

In terms of life at Eisenstadt, 1764 brought no significant changes from 1763. The Prince was becoming a sensation due to his amazing tastes (like wearing a coat entirely studded with diamonds!) and extravagant style. The quality and depth of his wealth is stunning even today, since he never came close to lacking for money. At that time, he was only beginning to spend!  For Haydn it was business as usual. Getting a house built, training musicians, writing music; the life he had aspired to was now his.

The music of 1764;

Hob 01_021 Symphony in A
Hob 01_022 Symphony in Eb 'The Philosopher'
   The Hanover Band / Goodman

Hob 01_023 Symphony in G
Hob 01_024 Symphony in D
   Academy of Ancient Music / Hogwood


Hob 02_D22 Cassatio in D for 4 Horns & Strings
   L'Archibudelli / Koster


Hob 09_04 Six Minuetti di Ballo
   Ensemble Bella Musica de Vienne / Dittrich


Hob 12_01 Duet in A for 2 Barytons
Hob 12_02 Duet in G for 2 Barytons
Hob 12_04 Duet in G for 2 Barytons
Hob 12_06 Duet in G for 2 Barytons
   Esterhazy Ensemble


Hob 14_04 Divertimento in C for Keyboard
   L'Arte dell'Arco / Loreggian


Hob 16_Eb2 Sonata #17 in Eb for Keyboard
Hob 16_Eb3 Sonata #18 in Eb for Keyboard
   Yuko Wataya (Cembalo)


Hob 17a_deest / 09_03 12 Menuets for Keyboard (w/Trio)
   Bart van Oort (Fortepiano)


Hob 24a_03 Cantata in C  "Al Tuo arrivo felice"
Hob 24a_04 Cantata in A "Qual dubbio ormai"
   Cappella Coloniensis / A. Spering / VokalEnsemble Köln



Well, a few new items here now, eh?   

Four symphonies, but hardly an off year. The famous #22 in Eb dates from 1764. All of these 4 are interesting though. If we have someone who would like to analyze them a bit for us, that would be great. I don't want to go down any particular avenue excepting history unless there is a demand for it. 

The Cassatio for 4 Horns doesn't appear in Hoboken. The score was found only in 1959 in a castle in Prague by Robbins-Landon. He dated it to 1764 more by logic than that it had a big "1764" written on the front. Haydn's orchestra went from 2 horns to 4 in 1763. Then, the piece is structurally related to symphony 31 (The Hornsignal) from 1765. It has some excellent horn writing, as does all Haydn's work from this time, like Symphonies 72 & 31. As I mentioned earlier, this disk with L'Archibudelli/Koster is a must-have!

For the first time we run across sets of dances. Down the road there would be lots more of them, but for now, we will have to be content with these. These 6 "Minuetti di Ballo" are on a very nice little disk on Harmonia Mundi. Some of the dances are authentic Haydn, some are "attributed to", but all are very nice. This is the only disk I have ever found of the orchestral versions of these early  dances. If anyone has any knowledge to help me broaden out a bit, here is my plea for help.

Now we also get to the baryton. The more I learn about this instrument and listen to the music, the more I enjoy it. Since the dates of these earliest works are uncertain, given as a range (1764-1766), then I elect to start with the duets for 2 barytons. I'm sure that some of you that bought the Big Box have noticed that there is a disk missing from the baryton set. And this is it. It only is available when one buys the "Complete Music for Baryton" set. I'm hoping that our friend Harry will speak to his friends at Brilliant about releasing a "patch" with the disks that were lacking to fill out complete sets (a couple of string quartet disks are in that group too).

Some very nice sonatas that had not been available for years to Hoboken were finally authenticated and now exist as Eb2 & Eb3. I was rather surprised to note that they are among the most recorded early sonatas. Check them out on Brautigam or Van Oort, or join me with some more period instruments still, in this case harpsichord.

And speaking of Van Oort and dances, notice that I have properly classified the keyboard reductions of the dances into Hob 17 (other keyboard music) instead of Hob 9 (dances) since the original dances were all orchestrated, not keyboard reductions. That said, I believe that some of these sets of dances only exist in the keyboard form. This particular one, consisting of 12 minuets with trios, is a fine example of the minuet before it really zipped off into scherzo-land! 

Finally, 2 cantatas written for Nicholas' return from a long journey (to a coronation in Frankfurt) finish off what is a very fine year of music!

Please feel free to add questions, comments, other facts, corrections etc.



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Now playing:
    Balestracci \ Tampieri \ Cocset - Hob 11_042 Trio in D for Baryton, Viola & Cello 3rd mvmt - Menuet