Haydn's Haus

[Gurn Blanston]

I listen in a variety of ways.  Sometimes, it's just listening to a disc straight through.  Sometimes, I have some momentary interest and pursue that (such as my Sibelius and Nielsen mélange, earlier to-day).

Sometimes, it's just Haydn all the time . . . .

Yes, but other than choice of composer, is there a rhyme or reason to your choices?   Or is it whimsy? Not denigrating whimsy, being whimsical myself at times, just curious to what extent it compels listeners.

[Gurn Blanston]

I tend to listen to the whole box of string quartets if I start one ...

And the same for the 'London' symphonies.

Ah! That's what I expect to hear more than not. Curious though; if you had the intention of listening to the entire from the beginning, would you listen to them chronologically, or would it be more randomly than that (say, Op 76, followed by 33, 64 etc)?

[Leon]

I'm curious how different people listen to music. I mean, not whether it's with my ears, or while reading a book or the Forum. Rather, do you just grab a disk and throw it on and listen from end to end? Or do you do it thematically, like "all the songs are about rainbows", so to speak.  Or is there some other key that you use to gain the most from your listening experience? Or do you care about that? Something else altogether?

If you feel like sharing, please do. Some of you already know that I have some thoughts on the matter, but I want to know what yours are.

I rarely listen to an entire disc, but usually am wanting to hear a specific work on the disc.  And more often than not, I'll grab a few recordings of the same work and listen to a part of them all or a few in a row.  But that's when I'm engaged in focused listening. 

Many times I just want some thing playing of a certain period or genre, which is why I have created so many playlists of "piano trios", or "string quartets"; "French chamber music", or my favorite, "Haydn, Mozart & Beethoven"; or an artist/ensemble, "Beaux Arts Quartet" or "Kuijken" and then put it on random play and enjoy the various works and movements butting up against each other.

[Karl Henning]

Yes, but other than choice of composer, is there a rhyme or reason to your choices?   Or is it whimsy? Not denigrating whimsy, being whimsical myself at times, just curious to what extent it compels listeners.

Sometimes, whimsy.  Sometimes genre, or a specific piece, or indeed rainbows or some other parallel theme.  Or form: themes-&-variations, e.g.

[chasmaniac]

I'm curious how different people listen to music. I mean, not whether it's with my ears, or while reading a book or the Forum. Rather, do you just grab a disk and throw it on and listen from end to end? Or do you do it thematically, like "all the songs are about rainbows", so to speak.  Or is there some other key that you use to gain the most from your listening experience? Or do you care about that? Something else altogether?

A composer, (songwriter, band,) work, genre will suggest itself to me, and I'll accept it or reject and wait for more suggestions. When I've found what I feel like hearing, I'll play whole discs in that vein. I also put together my own anthologies on one theme or another, so they're in the mix as well.

[Gurn Blanston]

A composer, (songwriter, band,) work, genre will suggest itself to me, and I'll accept it or reject and wait for more suggestions. When I've found what I feel like hearing, I'll play whole discs in that vein. I also put together my own anthologies on one theme or another, so they're in the mix as well.

I like that thematic anthology idea. It tkes a little effort, but I should imagine it is time well invested.

I rarely listen to an entire disc, but usually am wanting to hear a specific work on the disc.  And more often than not, I'll grab a few recordings of the same work and listen to a part of them all or a few in a row.  But that's when I'm engaged in focused listening. 

Many times I just want some thing playing of a certain period or genre, which is why I have created so many playlists of "piano trios", or "string quartets"; "French chamber music", or my favorite, "Haydn, Mozart & Beethoven"; or an artist/ensemble, "Beaux Arts Quartet" or "Kuijken" and then put it on random play and enjoy the various works and movements butting up against each other.

I do that too, in fact for many years it was my main method. The second one, I mean. Although I also do the first occasionally. I am horrible at comparative listening though, so it doesn't jump right out at me now. 

Sometimes, whimsy.  Sometimes genre, or a specific piece, or indeed rainbows or some other parallel theme.  Or form: themes-&-variations, e.g.

On any given evening...

Well, here is one thing that I really enjoy doing. It can be very difficult to arrange, but for me, perverse bastard that I am, that's part of the appeal.

I started this a while back. Before I was a Haydn specialist, I gave the same treatment to first, Mozart, then Beethoven. All the books, all the music. I have to admit, they were a lot easier! Anyway, while reading I would frequently read concert programmes in the text, and think 'I sure would have liked to be there!'.  So the idea of recreating actual historic concerts came to me. Here's my first;

#1 April 2, 1800 - Beethoven Benefit Academy (Concert)

Mozart -  K 543 Symphony #39 in Eb

Hob 21_2 Oratorio 'Die Schöpfung'  pt 08 - Aria (Gabriel) - "Non beut die Flur das frische Gruen" 

Beethoven Op 15 Concerto #1 in C for Piano & Orchestra

Beethoven Op 20 Septet in Eb for Strings & Winds

Haydn Hob 21_2 Oratorio Die Schöpfung  pt 32 - Duet (Adam & Eve) - "Holde Gattin, dir zur Seite"

Beethoven WoO 73 Variations (10) in Bb on 'La Stessa, le Stessissima' from "Falstaff" by Salieri

Beethoven  WoO 76 Variations ( 8 ) in F on 'Tändeln und Scherzen" from "Suliman II" by Süssmayr

Beethoven Op 21 Symphony #1 in C

This was/still is a great concert! I did 8 of these, right up through the premiere of the 9th. Anyway, that's an idea from me for starters.

[chasmaniac]

Plucked from the budget box this morning, these really hit the spot. Tafelmusik playing Haydn Symphonies 50, 64, 65.

[asin]B000002971[/asin]

[Leon]

Plucked from the budget box this morning, these really hit the spot. Tafelmusik playing Haydn Symphonies 50, 64, 65.

[asin]B000002971[/asin]

I really like Weil's Haydn - I have the larger box set of 7 discs.

[asin]B001U0HB60[/asin]

[Gurn Blanston]

Ultimately, I believe both those boxes have the same contents, do they not?

[Leon]

Ultimately, I believe both those boxes have the same contents, do they not?

I thought he posted just the one disc of Syms. 50, 64 & 65 - not the entire box.

[chasmaniac]

I thought he posted just the one disc of Syms. 50, 64 & 65 - not the entire box.

That was to illustrate the disc I listened to this morning. The 2 boxes are the same.

[Gurn Blanston]

I thought he posted just the one disc of Syms. 50, 64 & 65 - not the entire box.

That's funny; I thought the same thing the first time I read it; then I noted the blue border and the light bulb came on. Only dimly, but that's another story.

[Gurn Blanston]

..........'I sure would have liked to be there!'.  So the idea of recreating actual historic concerts came to me. Here's my first;

#1 April 2, 1800 - Beethoven Benefit Academy (Concert)

Mozart -  K 543 Symphony #39 in Eb

Hob 21_2 Oratorio 'Die Schöpfung'  pt 08 - Aria (Gabriel) - "Non beut die Flur das frische Gruen" 

Beethoven Op 15 Concerto #1 in C for Piano & Orchestra

Beethoven Op 20 Septet in Eb for Strings & Winds

Haydn Hob 21_2 Oratorio Die Schöpfung  pt 32 - Duet (Adam & Eve) - "Holde Gattin, dir zur Seite"

Beethoven WoO 73 Variations (10) in Bb on 'La Stessa, le Stessissima' from "Falstaff" by Salieri

Beethoven  WoO 76 Variations ( 8 ) in F on 'Tändeln und Scherzen" from "Suliman II" by Süssmayr

Beethoven Op 21 Symphony #1 in C

This was/still is a great concert! I did 8 of these, right up through the premiere of the 9th. Anyway, that's an idea from me for starters.

Hmmm, I was hoping that this would spur on some other Haydnistas to bare their souls, so to speak. I am always looking for new ideas in this realm, since devising creative ways to enjoy music is a vital part of my enjoyment, tied hand-in-hand with my history hobby.

Well, here is a variation that I came up with just recently. Lately I have become rather more interested in sacred music than I ever was. But it didn't take long to discover that sitting down and throwing on a disk of masses got old pretty quickly, despite that the music was beautiful. So as you mostly recall, I did that little research project a few weeks back to see what other music was in there and how they fit together. And I came up with this;

A Missa longa from <>1768:

Hasse Concerto in F for Solo Organ - Allegro
Altenburg Concerto in C for 7 Trumpets & Timpani – Allegro

Haydn: Hob XXII: 04 Mass in Eb 'Grosse Orgelsolomesse'
Kyrie:   Kyrie eleison
Gloria:    Gloria in excelsis Deo
           Gratias agimus tibi
           Quoniam tu solus sanctus
Haydn: Hob I:22 Symphony in Eb - Adagio

Hasse: Concerto in F for Solo Organ - Andante
Altenburg: Concerto in C for 7 Trumpets & Timpani - Andante

Credo:    Credo in unum Deum
      Et incarnatus est
      Et resurrexit
Hob I: 22 Symphony in Eb - Presto
Sanctus
Benedictus
Agnus Dei
Agnus Dei: Dona nobis pacem
Hob I: 22 Symphony in Eb - Finale: Presto
Altenburg: Concerto in C for 7 Trumpets & Timpani  - Vivace
Hasse: Concerto in F for Solo Organ - Minuet: Allegro

Now when I listen to the Große Orgelsolomesse I get to start out with some contemporary solo organ music by a master, a great little trumpet fanfare with timpani, some of the mass, some of a symphony etc. etc. It's a treat for me!

I invite any or all of you to try something like this. Especially I would like to her whether you enjoy listening to it this way. I personally feel like Prince Esterházy when I do it!   0:)

Also, any other ideas for increasing your listening pleasure? Please share.




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Now playing:


The Solstice Ensemble - Hob 02_26 Notturno in F for Flute, Oboe & Small Orchestra 1st mvmt - Adagio - Allegro spiritoso

[chasmaniac]

Hmmm, I was hoping that this would spur on some other Haydnistas to bare their souls, so to speak.

My sets aren't very Haydn-y, or even classical, but I put together a Haydn sampler for propaganda purposes. It goes like this...

Sonata in Em for Keyboard, Hob. XVI/34
1. Presto
2. Adagio
3. Vivace molto
Ronald Brautigam

String Quartet in F, Op. 77/2
4. Allegro Moderato
5. Menuet: presto
6. Andante
7. Finale: vivace assai
Quatuor Mosaïques

Piano Trio in G, Hob. XV/25
8. Andante
9. Poco adagio, cantabile
10. Finale: rondo all'Ongarese, presto
Van Swieten Trio

Sonatina in F for Violin and Viola, Hob. VI/1
11. Allegro Moderato
12. Adagio sostenuto
13. Tempo di Nebuet
Anton Steck, Christian Goosses

[Gurn Blanston]

My sets aren't very Haydn-y, or even classical, but I put together a Haydn sampler for propaganda purposes. It goes like this...

Sonata in Em for Keyboard, Hob. XVI/34
1. Presto
2. Adagio
3. Vivace molto
Ronald Brautigam

String Quartet in F, Op. 77/2
4. Allegro Moderato
5. Menuet: presto
6. Andante
7. Finale: vivace assai
Quatuor Mosaïques

Piano Trio in G, Hob. XV/25
8. Andante
9. Poco adagio, cantabile
10. Finale: rondo all'Ongarese, presto
Van Swieten Trio

Sonatina in F for Violin and Viola, Hob. VI/1
11. Allegro Moderato
12. Adagio sostenuto
13. Tempo di Nebuet
Anton Steck, Christian Goosses

That's an excellent evening's listening. And as you say, not restricted to any particular composer. A variation that I have used many times is a simulated salon in Vienna from around 1783 or so:

Hob 26a_03 Lied for Soprano and Fortepiano "Der erste Kuss"

Hob 16_40 Sonata #54 in G for Fortepiano

Hob 26a_05 Lied for Soprano and Fortepiano "Die Verlassene"

Hob 03_39 Op 33 #3 Quartet in C

Hob 26a_04 Lied for Soprano and Fortepiano "Eine sehr gewöhnliche Geschichte"

Hob 03_41 Op 33 #5 Quartet in G

Hob 16_41 Sonata #55 in Bb for Fortepiano

Another pleasant evening. This sort of thing works outstandingly well with Schubert, as you can imagine. Recreating a Schubertiade of any given year can provide great pleasure, limited only by your imagination.

[chasmaniac]

I very much like vocal numbers interspersed with instrumental. That extra variational dimension widens the set's dynamic - denser, looser; higher, lower; rougher, smoother and so on. The mixture is everything.

[Gurn Blanston]

I very much like vocal numbers interspersed with instrumental. That extra variational dimension widens the set's dynamic - denser, looser; higher, lower; rougher, smoother and so on. The mixture is everything.

Yes, and very realistic too, since there was no such thing in those days as a concert or recital of solely instrumental music. So just as you say, it varies the density nicely. Nice thing about Haydn (or Schubert), you can take many different phases of his career and make a great little recital of 'latest hits', which was a big deal for the Viennese.   "Oh my, that's so last year " 

[Leo K.]

Hmmm, I was hoping that this would spur on some other Haydnistas to bare their souls, so to speak. I am always looking for new ideas in this realm, since devising creative ways to enjoy music is a vital part of my enjoyment, tied hand-in-hand with my history hobby.

I have been thinking of this question, and realizing how difficult it is to write down my subjective processes in choosing music day to day! On the outside it seems so plain, "I'll listen to this then, it suits my fancy just now, " etc., but it's a complex process.

Some things that are easy to note are:

I never listen to half of a work, i.e., a symphony, piano sonata, etc. Perhaps I will listen to the first act or two of an opera, but usually I prefer to hear the complete work as a whole. I really can't stand excerpts if I can help it. Sometimes it is unavoidable. A lot of my listening occurs at my workplaces, so obviously, I will be interupted time to time.

I usually enjoy focus on an era, or style, or genre of music. One day it will be operas of the early 18th century, the next day, keyboard literature of the first half of the 19th century, etc. I'm also led by connections. I may jump around but somehow, each musical work somehow fits an overall theme, regardless of the difference of composer, era or genre. It can be magical. A listening session is sometimes like an episode of the television series called  "Connections" by science historian James Burke, which rejected a linear view of historical progress. It is all rather fun!

Starting from two years ago, I've been branching out, uncovering the blind spots in my knowledge and collection, and seeing where it takes me. The music of JS Bach (and his sons), Johann Hasse, Bruckner, Chopin, Liszt, Mendelssohn, Richard Strauss, and unknown or not-known contemporaries of the greats (within the 18th and 19 centuries) are some examples.

Particular fascinations during the last year is the development of the mass, piano sonata and the symphony. Also, the period of late-romanticism is of particular interest right now, particularly those of the Brahms-Bruckner mold who are mostly forgotten today.

This is also a time of rediscovering recordings, or composers, the biggest being Mozart and Tschaikovsky, that I got burnt-out on years ago, but am now finding something new I haven't heard before, and a new appreciation is happening.

It goes without saying that this board has been endlessly helpful in suggesting avenues of exploration, and now a big influence on my listening sessions.

[Gurn Blanston]

That's very interesting, Leo. I have read it a few times now and come to the realization that in many ways, I do entirely the opposite from you, although I suspect our net result (and motivations) are the same. It goes without saying that there is no opposition about listening to parts and excerpts though!

It was no accident that I arranged all my digital music chronologically. This was so that I could choose a particular year or group of years and play contemporaneous music with a blend of genres that spanned whatever creative spectrum that composer indulged at the time.

I don't suppose that I need to say that I focus on an era though, do I? 

I like the 'connections' concept though. One doesn't see it much here, but on boards that specialize in one composer, a very large percentage of the members seem to believe that their boy was sui generis and had no antecedents who influenced him or taught him anything at all. Which is ludicrous, of course. If one were to trace the actual influences from just 1750 to 1850 for example, he would be stunned by the inbreeding inherent in the training process of composers!  So 'connections' is a cool idea. I was going to do an essay on that at one time, but I might just play around with my playlists first and see what's what.

It's a funny thing how the board influences one's viewpoints. Many times I read something and try to see how it might fit in with my own knowledge. Often it doesn't, or the slant of it is unacceptable, but somewhere down the road I find a way to let it expand my horizons anyway. So yes, it is nice to see so many viewpoints up for debate. Guess that's why I've stuck around here for such a long time.




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Now playing:


Van Swieten Trio - Hob 15_10 Trio in Eb for Keyboard & Strings 1st mvmt - Allegro moderato

[Leo K.]

That's very interesting, Leo. I have read it a few times now and come to the realization that in many ways, I do entirely the opposite from you, although I suspect our net result (and motivations) are the same. It goes without saying that there is no opposition about listening to parts and excerpts though!

It was no accident that I arranged all my digital music chronologically. This was so that I could choose a particular year or group of years and play contemporaneous music with a blend of genres that spanned whatever creative spectrum that composer indulged at the time.

I don't suppose that I need to say that I focus on an era though, do I? 

I like the 'connections' concept though. One doesn't see it much here, but on boards that specialize in one composer, a very large percentage of the members seem to believe that their boy was sui generis and had no antecedents who influenced him or taught him anything at all. Which is ludicrous, of course. If one were to trace the actual influences from just 1750 to 1850 for example, he would be stunned by the inbreeding inherent in the training process of composers!  So 'connections' is a cool idea. I was going to do an essay on that at one time, but I might just play around with my playlists first and see what's what.

It's a funny thing how the board influences one's viewpoints. Many times I read something and try to see how it might fit in with my own knowledge. Often it doesn't, or the slant of it is unacceptable, but somewhere down the road I find a way to let it expand my horizons anyway. So yes, it is nice to see so many viewpoints up for debate. Guess that's why I've stuck around here for such a long time.




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Now playing:


Van Swieten Trio - Hob 15_10 Trio in Eb for Keyboard & Strings 1st mvmt - Allegro moderato

Thanks for your thoughts Gurn!

I think the essence of my listening habits is era/history based rather than composer based. I definitely continue to be obsessed with Mozart, Haydn, Alban Berg, and of course Mahler to name a few! But essentially, my listening habits are changing into the history direction mentioned above. My overall favorite era is the 18th century, but these meaningful connections that bridge each era is so fascinating, endlessly fascinating, and keep me listening to other eras with the same passion.

I'm very interested in the inbreeding in western art music. That's why I'm fascinated by composers working in the "Brahms mold". I love how a tradition takes hold and inspires more of the same sounds, same tradition. Originality is not as interesting or important to me as identifying or enjoying the consistency that exists in an era.