Haydn's Haus

[Wakefield]

You make a valid point, Jeffrey, and if that was Gordon's point, I heartily wish he had made it, and confined himself to it

There is the avuncular assurance (here, alas! a little disingenuous) that the matter is "childishly simple," yet in that brief statement, he loads negative baggage onto the word "progress" which is absolutely unchildlike.

Your point, that the Beautiful of its nature is timeless, and the idea of Progress does not apply, is (I should think) a given. But the assertion that there is no progress in the practice of art? (For the "childish simplicity" here strikes me as little more than lassitude.) Not the reasonably nuanced "there are aspects of the progress which I find æsthetically questionable," but just, "nope, ain't no sech thing."

In the Art of Music, alone, there are myriad facets of progress. (What, the fully chromatic concert harp is not an instance of progress? And once we acknowledge the obvious -- that it is progress -- is there anyone present who has a serious æsthetic problem with it?)

Let's bring this back to the thread topic. Who among us Haydn enthusiasts seriously believes that our "Papa" did not make progress in his practice of composition over a long and wonderfully productive career? Who denies that exposure to "Papa's" string quartets was a catalyst (I think I use that correctly) for progress in Mozart's composition

I shall pause and wait for an answer

Your idea of "progress" is frankly naive, Karl; not childish, but naive and unelaborated. There is a lot of writings about this notion, starting with the famous "Quarrel of the Ancients and the Moderns" and gallons of ink used to criticize the notion of "indefinite progress" defended by the Enlightenment.

It's impossible to discuss anything without a minimum consensus about the meaning of the words used.

[Sergeant Rock]

Isn't Haydn ahead of Brian now?

Only in number of replies. Brian is still significantly ahead in number of views (8000+ more views than Haydn). In any case, having Brian and Haydn first and second in terms of popularity suits me nicely 

Sarge

[Parsifal]

I'm not sure if I should get the DRD box, since I tend to prefer HIP, lightness and lively tempi and rhythms.

As far as I am concerned, it has all of that, just not on period instruments.

In any case, a reissue of this would be most welcome.

[asin]B00006IU8V[/asin]

It is a mystery to me, with all of the box sets, Bruggen is neglected (unless they're saving it all for his 80th birthday).

[Mandryka]

I've Brüggen's set of Sturm und Drang symphonies plus 90, 93, 101, 103....all very good performances.





Sarge

There's some very fine live Bruggen Haydn on symphonyshare, an 82 and an excellent 101. The 101 is particularly fine. I like his heaviness, but if you demand energetic performances then he's not going to be your man. I've never got on with his commercial Paris and Sturm und Drang Symphonies as much as his London symphonies, which is probably my favourite recordings of those late symphonies -- despite the fact that he makes Haydn sound like Beethoven. MAybe I should retry the other studio Haydn some time.

Another Haydn CD he made, worth investigating maybe,  is this. I would say that in 84 I much prefer Harnoncourt

[Sergeant Rock]

I like his heaviness, but if you demand energetic performances then he's not going to be your man. I've never got on with his commercial Paris and Sturm und Drang Symphonies as much as his London symphonies, which is probably my favourite recordings of those late symphonies -- despite the fact that he makes Haydn sound like Beethoven. MAybe I should retry the other studio Haydn some time.

True, Brüggen is less stressful than other conductors in this music    lacking a certain drive. And one is very aware there is a conductor controlling proceedings with phrasing that seems more appropriate to the following century. Nonetheless, it's a way I enjoy hearing these symphonies...sometimes. Certainly they are unfailingly beautiful performances.

Sarge

[Gurn Blanston]

See how easy it is to quote out of context.
It looks like your fetish is Haydn - no surprises there...
Enough.

I'm not sure if I should get the DRD box, since I tend to prefer HIP, lightness and lively tempi and rhythms - the Weil box would seem to be a better idea, even if it's only 7 CD's - or perhaps that's another benefit.

The Weil box is an outstanding choice. I had the singles and bought the box anyway, just in case.

[Gurn Blanston]

As far as I am concerned, it has all of that, just not on period instruments.

In any case, a reissue of this would be most welcome.

[asin]B00006IU8V[/asin]

It is a mystery to me, with all of the box sets, Bruggen is neglected (unless they're saving it all for his 80th birthday).

Agreed. During the extended period when I was shopping for it, the best price was $180. I even made David Ross an offer (refused!).

I have the complete contents of that box, but in 6 or 7 various other boxes. Hardly tidy. A reissue is way overdue.

[DavidW]

But it is easily available, it's even on spotify and googleplay.

I believe that you are mistaken.  Bruggen's set of London Symphonies is not available on google play, nor is it available on itunes or amazon mp3.

I think you have to get used  to the idea that the compact disc is dead.

I certainly don't have to get used to something that is obviously false!  Look at the current marketshare for music, and you will see that the cd is still a popular format and far, far, far, far from being dead.

[Mandryka]

I believe that you are mistaken.  Bruggen's set of London Symphonies is not available on google play, nor is it available on itunes or amazon mp3.

Oh sorry, they're on spotify, and as mp3 through amazon in the uk, so I assumed you could get them where you are. If you want I'll upload them onto symphonyshare.

Has anyone read Dean Sutcliffe's book on op50?

[North Star]

As far as I am concerned, it has all of that, just not on period instruments.

The Weil box is an outstanding choice. I had the singles and bought the box anyway, just in case.

Hmm, will have to think about this..

[Gurn Blanston]

Has anyone read Dean Sutcliffe's book on op50?

Yes, it's a fine book, not only analyzes the music, but gives a nice historiographical review. I bought it along with the score (all I could get at the time was the Dover, but I was good with that), and had an enjoyable time with the Tokyo Quartet.

[Gurn Blanston]

Hmm, will have to think about this..

Not really.

Or at least I wouldn't. Of course, I have no slight interest in another complete set (on MI), and I already know that the Weil is excellent, so it's easy for me to say that. 

[North Star]

Not really.

Or at least I wouldn't. Of course, I have no slight interest in another complete set (on MI), and I already know that the Weil is excellent, so it's easy for me to say that. 

Alright, alright, but then I have only three Haydn symphonies on disc at the moment.

[Sammy]

But it is easily available, it's even on spotify and googleplay. I think you have to get used  to the idea that the compact disc is dead.

Fortunately, your statement is baloney.

[DavidW]

I suppose Mandryka each of us will have to be careful about speaking of digital downloads in the context of region since what is available in one region is not in another.  I look forward to a future in which that is not true.  I'm glad that at least those restrictions do not exist for cd sales. 0:)

[Karl Henning]

Your idea of "progress" is frankly naive, Karl; not childish, but naive and unelaborated. There is a lot of writings about this notion, starting with the famous "Quarrel of the Ancients and the Moderns" and gallons of ink used to criticize the notion of "indefinite progress" defended by the Enlightenment.

It's impossible to discuss anything without a minimum consensus about the meaning of the words used.

I note that you have not addressed any of my points. I thank you for conceding them. Your fencing here also underscores my point about your disingenuousness. I thank you for that, as well.

[Karl Henning]

The Weil box is an outstanding choice.

Indeed!

[Madiel]

If the CD is dead, I'm a necrophiliac.

This needs to be made into a sticker I can buy.

[Madiel]

Oh sorry, they're on spotify, and as mp3 through amazon in the uk, so I assumed you could get them where you are.

...aaaaaand you just hit on one of the chief reasons for sticking with CDs.  See a CD you like in a store in the USA, UK, Canada, South Africa, Poland, Japan? No problem.  See a track you like on a digital store in another country?  Tough.

When an Australian can buy a Japanese performance on a Swedish record label from a store in the Netherlands in a lossless format, then call me. And not before.

[Madiel]

To be more topical, I have a question about the piano trios.  At first glance it looks as if complete sets of the piano trios tend to ignore the flute in the 3 flute trios, because they have violinist handy.  Is that correct, or am I just reading websites that don't bother mentioning a flautist?

Beaux Arts for example, and Trio 1790 was another one. I'm not sure what other complete sets there are.