Haydn's Haus

[Brahmsian]

Naturally, given Ray's (comparative, only comparative) coolness to the Alleluja, I should like to revisit it . . . and the new nannydom is an obstacle.  (As it has been generally, slowing my visits to da Haus.)  I keep the DRD cube by my night-table . . . .

  +1

May the cube be with you!

[Gurn Blanston]

Naturally, given Ray's (comparative, only comparative) coolness to the Alleluja, I should like to revisit it . . . and the new nannydom is an obstacle.  (As it has been generally, slowing my visits to da Haus.)  I keep the DRD cube by my night-table . . . .

Curious your reaction to it, Karl. As you see in my essay, my preference is Harnoncourt which is ass-kickin', but I need to check out Hogwood, as I simply don't remember it. If DRD plays it hot, it should be good too.

[Sergeant Rock]

Curious your reaction to it, Karl. As you see in my essay, my preference is Harnoncourt which is ass-kickin'[...]If DRD plays it hot, it should be good too.

When Nut first remarked on his disappointment with 30, I wondered if it had something to do with DRD...perhaps one of his lesser efforts? Unfortunately I couldn't find even short clips online to confirm or refute that suspicion. Ref Harnoncourt's Alleluja: I can't imagine anyone being disappointed with the symphony the way he tackles it 

Sarge

[Gurn Blanston]

When Nut first remarked on his disappointment with 30, I wondered if it had something to do with DRD...perhaps one of his lesser efforts? Unfortunately I couldn't find even short clips online to confirm or refute that suspicion. Ref Harnoncourt's Alleluja: I can't imagine anyone being disappointed with the symphony the way he tackles it 

Sarge

Alleluia, amen!   

[Karl Henning]

Gorm, just had a post eaten up. Shaking it off . . . .

Gurn, I've got DRD/Stuttgarters in a few modernish works as well as the "Papa" symphony cube, including:

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So, clarity and energy are the hallmarks.  Of course, I've not completely listened to the Hogwood set yet, either.  Between the two, I am the proverbial kid in the musical candy shop . . . .

[Roberto]

Hopefully, a prod to the listener. Two outstanding symphonies for 1765, here is a short discussion with some features to listen for. Hope you enjoy these!
Alleluia and Hornsignal

I've read it. Great article, thank you! I had to listen to the 30th and 31st because of it.  (With Hogwood of course.)
30th: beautiful and lively first movement (with darkness sometimes)! It was a joy to hear. Second movement was great too with unexpected ending. Maybe the 3rd movement was less successful but I liked it too.
31st: it was one of my first Haydn experience years ago with a Hungarian chamber orchestra on Hungaroton CD. (Old romantic performance.) I didn't know it uses 4 horns!  Hogwood conducts it lively also. Balance is optimal, solo playing is great. 2nd movement was autumnal like a Vivaldi season.

[Gurn Blanston]

I've read it. Great article, thank you! I had to listen to the 30th and 31st because of it.  (With Hogwood of course.)
30th: beautiful and lively first movement (with darkness sometimes)! It was a joy to hear. Second movement was great too with unexpected ending. Maybe the 3rd movement was less successful but I liked it too.
31st: it was one of my first Haydn experience years ago with a Hungarian chamber orchestra on Hungaroton CD. (Old romantic performance.) I didn't know it uses 4 horns!  Hogwood conducts it lively also. Balance is optimal, solo playing is great. 2nd movement was autumnal like a Vivaldi season.

Splendid! And a reminder for me to listen to the Hogwood again. I have only Hogwood and Goodman for many early works, and so when I get others I tend to go with them and forget all what Hogwood sounded like . I think for both of these works, lively is the way to go. Laying back and trying to sneak up n them is just going to disappoint.

[Roberto]

There was a strange sounding instrument in the last movement of the 31th. Is there a double bass solo (variation) in it?

[Gurn Blanston]

There was a strange sounding instrument in the last movement of the 31th. Is there a double bass solo (variation) in it?

Yes, almost positive. There is one in #72, and I think in #31 too. Haydn was very fond of his violoneist, he even wrote him a (sadly lost) concerto!

[Karl Henning]

You want to be careful around bassists, referring to their ax as a strange-sounding instrument 

[Karl Henning]

At last!

Hogwood is sprightlier with the Alleluja than DRD;  I do like the DRD as well, but the Stuttgarters are notably smoother with the piece.

[Gurn Blanston]

At last!

Hogwood is sprightlier with the Alleluja than DRD;  I do like the DRD as well, but the Stuttgarters are notably smoother with the piece.

Ah, interesting, Karl. I have been otherwise occupied and unable to listen to the Hogwood yet, but I think there are many occasions, especially in Haydn, when smoother is not necessarily better. Perhaps this is another of them? 

[Karl Henning]

Could be;  the Hogwood n^o. 30 does seem to me more immediately likeable.  I don't think I am waffling, in liking the DRD, too . . . .

[Brahmsian]

Ah, interesting, Karl. I have been otherwise occupied and unable to listen to the Hogwood yet, but I think there are many occasions, especially in Haydn, when smoother is not necessarily better. Perhaps this is another of them? 

Good point, Gurn.  Some people prefer smooth peanut butter, while other prefer crunchy.  Then again, some are deathly allergic to both.   


Example for me:

Mahler - I like really smooth

Bruckner - I enjoy more of a street brawl, spitting bloody chiclets gritty kind of approach

[Gurn Blanston]

Good point, Gurn.  Some people prefer smooth peanut butter, while other prefer crunchy.  Then again, some are deathly allergic to both.   


Example for me:

Mahler - I like really smooth

Bruckner - I enjoy more of a street brawl, spitting bloody chiclets gritty kind of approach

This is certainly a discussion that has come up before, more to the point of period instruments vs modern ones. But also in the Haydn string quartets where there is a clear division in taste between the smooths and the chunkys. My own opinion is that going smooth sort of takes out Haydn's personality from the equation. Perhaps I am injecting my OWN personality into it at this point, but for my taste, Haydn is chunky, Mozart is smooth.   

Could be;  the Hogwood n^o. 30 does seem to me more immediately likeable.  I don't think I am waffling, in liking the DRD, too . . . .

I don't think you're waffling. Well played is well played, what's not to like?

[Brahmsian]

This is certainly a discussion that has come up before, more to the point of period instruments vs modern ones. But also in the Haydn string quartets where there is a clear division in taste between the smooths and the chunkys. My own opinion is that going smooth sort of takes out Haydn's personality from the equation. Perhaps I am injecting my OWN personality into it at this point, but for my taste, Haydn is chunky, Mozart is smooth.   

I don't think you're waffling. Well played is well played, what's not to like?

I probably feel similarly (especially vis a vis Mozart and Haydn string quartets).  Smooth Wolfie, and Chunky Papa J. 

Great!  Now I have a craving for homemade waffles with strawberries, and pure Canadian or Vermont maple syrup.  Note to self:  Get a waffle iron. 

[Roberto]

You want to be careful around bassists, referring to their ax as a strange-sounding instrument 

I will be careful.
(I've heard solo double basses but in this recording it was slightly different.)

[Gurn Blanston]

I will be careful.
(I've heard solo double basses but in this recording it was slightly different.)

Roberto,
Variation 7 is for 'solo violone'. While violone is considered in modern times to be a synonym for double bass, in fact, in the time, there were many different variations on that instrument. In Haydn's area, the most likely contender would have been an Austrian Violone (that is a name, not a description) which was rather short and squatty. It was used in church music and chamber music where it fit perfectly in a blend with the others. If the AAM bassist is using one (and he should be) it will not sound the same as one of those big old upright basses that are more commonly used. I suspect this accounts for the difference in sound.

[Brahmsian]

Roberto,
Variation 7 is for 'solo violone'. While violone is considered in modern times to be a synonym for double bass, in fact, in the time, there were many different variations on that instrument. In Haydn's area, the most likely contender would have been an Austrian Violone (that is a name, not a description) which was rather short and squatty. It was used in church music and chamber music where it fit perfectly in a blend with the others. If the AAM bassist is using one (and he should be) it will not sound the same as one of those big old upright basses that are more commonly used. I suspect this accounts for the difference in sound.

I had read up on it Gurn, when I first heard this movement!  Quite honestly, I had never heard of a violone before.    It is a great variation.  I'm sure DRD/Stuttgart uses a double-bass, albeit, it sounds a bit different from a double-bass.  Perhaps they tuned it a bit differently?

Regardless, that is a great Variation movement as a whole, and I do love that variation with the 'violone'.

[Gurn Blanston]

I had read up on it Gurn, when I first heard this movement!  Quite honestly, I had never heard of a violone before.    It is a great variation.  I'm sure DRD/Stuttgart uses a double-bass, albeit, it sounds a bit different from a double-bass.  Perhaps they tuned it a bit differently?

Regardless, that is a great Variation movement as a whole, and I do love that variation with the 'violone'.

Hey, Ray,
I'm not sure what causes the different sound. What I have discovered about tunings is that there are dozens of different ones, perhaps one for each instrument (intentional exaggeration), so I don't know what effect that might have. Probably the biggest factors in tonal difference are the sound box (shape and size) and the strings. I don't know the physics of either one of those so I can't pursue this, but if I can find something I will be back here with it.