Haydn's Haus

[Florestan]

as a Haydinisto,

Shouldn't it be rather Haydnista? 

[Karl Henning]

Shouldn't it be rather Haydnista? 

Yes, I think 

[Wakefield]

Shouldn't it be rather Haydnista? 

I believe so, but this name was chosen by Gurn long time ago, so it's a sort of tradition... 

[Florestan]

I believe so, but this name was chosen by Gurn long time ago, so it's a sort of tradition... 

Let's stick to the tradition, then. 

[Gurn Blanston]

I can go either way with it; masculine/feminine word endings in Spanish are only considered consistent by native speakers. For example, even though the police were nearly always men in the days when the word was being coined, the police generically are called 'El Policia', which is a feminine ending. Haydnisto probably falls in the same category, despite it being a sad case of Espanish-izing an already existent made-up word, which is 'Haydnist', which dates back a long time. It has a softer and more pleasant sound with a Spanish ending.   

[Karl Henning]

I can go either way with it; masculine/feminine word endings in Spanish are only considered consistent by native speakers. For example, even though the police were nearly always men in the days when the word was being coined, the police generically are called 'El Policia', which is a feminine ending. Haydnisto probably falls in the same category, despite it being a sad case of Espanish-izing an already existent made-up word, which is 'Haydnist', which dates back a long time. It has a softer and more pleasant sound with a Spanish ending.   

Not to seem to gainsay any of your post, dude . . . just further musing.  I wonder if this usage (cf. Sandinista) mirrors the "significant exception" category including such masculine Spanish nouns as pianista and artista.

[Karl Henning]

Love this thread . . . we can chat about [nearly] anything 

[Florestan]

Not to seem to gainsay any of your post, dude . . . just further musing.  I wonder if this usage (cf. Sandinista) mirrors the "significant exception" category including such masculine Spanish nouns as pianista and artista.

AFAIK there is no -isto suffix in Spanish. All of them are -ista, be they masculine or feminine. Gordo can surely illuminate the question.

[Florestan]

Love this thread . . . we can chat about [nearly] anything 

That's another tradition, this time going back to Eszterhazy Miklos. He surely chatted a lot during Taffelsmusik. 

[Wakefield]

AFAIK there is no -isto suffix in Spanish. All of them are -ista, be they masculine or feminine. Gordo can surely illuminate the question.

You're right, it's very uncommon. But it's possible to find some exception: "modisto", for instance, it's the masculine form for "dressmaker", being "modista" the feminine.

[Karl Henning]

You're right, it's very uncommon. But it's possible to find some exception: "modisto", for instance, it's the masculine form for "dressmaker", being "modista" the feminine.

So that is la modista as compared to el artista, sì?

[Florestan]

La lista de un artista: de manana ir a la modista, a las dos de las tardes desayunar con un violinista, a las once de las noches charlar con una pianista, y despues hasta la vista! 

[Wakefield]

So that is la modista as compared to el artista, sì?

Exactly.

It would be:

El/la artista; not "el artisto."

Then, a bit exceptionally, "el modisto" and "la modista."

[Wakefield]

La lista de un artista: de manñana ir a la modista, a las dos de las tardes desayunar con un violinista, a las once de las noches charlar con una pianista, y despueés hasta la vista! 

Totally right, it would never be: "violinisto" o "pianisto"; just "modisto" o "modista", a sort of exception.   

[Wakefield]

I found a reference to this disk very recently and thought that maybe other Haydnistos could be interested:

[asin]B00004SVIA[/asin]

Mrs. Huggett is a good hook. 

[Gurn Blanston]

Still have that on my wish list, Gordo. I downloaded it years ago, always planning on getting it one day, now it is more challenging! 

I found a reference to this disk very recently and thought that maybe other Haydnistos could be interested:

[asin]B00004SVIA[/asin]

Mrs. Huggett is a good hook. 

[Gurn Blanston]

I thought I might get off-track just a bit this week, and finally begin to post the resource material I have been promising for a while. This week I put up a summary of all the music composed in the 1750's. It would have been foolhardy to try to assign a year to most of these, but you can refer to some of the essays for works which are virtually certain of the dating. Hope this is helpful to those interested.

The Music of the 1750's

Thanks!

[Gurn Blanston]

OK, well it's back to Paris this week, enjoying their last golden years before the fall. If anything, this year's symphonies are even grander than last year's!

Someone put that damned bear back in its cage!

Thanks for checking it out!

[Jo498]

Thanks for your list of 1750s music!

I wonder whether you or someone else can identify the first piece on the following disc. In the booklet there is no Hob # given (and it might be a piece of dubious authorship). The 2nd and 3rd pieces on the CD are revealed in the booklet to be Hob II:B4 and Hob II:A4. AFAIS it is NOT identical to Hob II:20 as the movements have different timings. In any case it will probably be named as a divertimento (instead cassatio, these were almost synonymous) in Hoboken or elsewhere. It's for oboe(s) horns and some strings, so no "Feld-parthie" for winds only. (I wonder if it might be a hybrid or arrangement but the booklet does not say so.) I do not know ho many Hob II:Fx there are and how I could compare incipits or soundbits. The piece does not seem to be in Huss' BIS/Koch box but I did not check all the pieces (the also sometimes do sound rather similar to each other, only the ones in F major with 5 movements).

[asin]B000001WTW[/asin]

[Gurn Blanston]

Thanks for your list of 1750s music!

I wonder whether you or someone else can identify the first piece on the following disc. In the booklet there is no Hob # given (and it might be a piece of dubious authorship). The 2nd and 3rd pieces on the CD are revealed in the booklet to be Hob II:B4 and Hob II:A4. AFAIS it is NOT identical to Hob II:20 as the movements have different timings. In any case it will probably be named as a divertimento (instead cassatio, these were almost synonymous) in Hoboken or elsewhere. It's for oboe(s) horns and some strings, so no "Feld-parthie" for winds only. (I wonder if it might be a hybrid or arrangement but the booklet does not say so.) I do not know ho many Hob II:Fx there are and how I could compare incipits or soundbits. The piece does not seem to be in Huss' BIS/Koch box but I did not check all the pieces (the also sometimes do sound rather similar to each other, only the ones in F major with 5 movements).

[asin]B000001WTW[/asin]

You're welcome. New decades will be posted as I get them collated, I like that format.

There is another page to click on the right side of the page, it is called 'Sunrise Over Hoboken' and it explains how to read one of those damned numbers.

In this case, since the letter is on the right side of the full stop, it indicates the key, as you have already figured out. 'B flat 4' and 'A4' are works which have only been attributed to Haydn, and very likely are not by him. There are only 2 authenticated Haydn works in the dozens which have that sort of numbering in Hoboken II.  They are D22 and G1. And those are the only ones you will find in Huss' set, since he only put authenticated ones in there. If you want to see a bunch of those, look in that Warner box of 'Haydn Wind Divertimentos' by Dieter Klöcker, he has a pisspot full of them, all of them very likely composed by someone else!

Without my own copy of Hoboken and a working knowledge of German, I can't tell how many works are included in each category like that. The fact of that authentic one being D22 gives some idea, although, of course, D major is the #1 key for wind divertimentos in the 18th century.

Hope that helps a little.