A different cut on beginners' classical music

[jochanaan]

What context?  This is absolute music for the most part.

But not "absolute music" in the same sense as in Bach's fugues or Mozart's symphonies (and there may be some question as to how "absolute" Mozart's symphonies were).  In those, the music is be-all and the end-all.  In Mahler's music, there are, by the composer's own testimony, strong emotive associations; yet Mahler, who for a time titled his movements, later deleted most of the titles, calling them "crutches for cripples".  He didn't want his listeners to be "limited" in their associations, but I believe he would not react kindly to having his music called "absolute."

[bigshot]

Getting stuck in a musical rut isn't good even if the music you're stuck with is good.

[RJR]

Nothing wrong with that. Try listening to Tchaikovsky's 1812 Overture in the original version, the one with cannon shots. That's as percussive as it gets!

But don't stand in front of the speakers unless you've written your last will and testament.

Anecdote:
Met a fellow some twenty years ago. He was a plumber in a small town outside of Montreal who decided to change his life. He knew nothing about classical music so he decided to buy a series of cds that contained one to two minute extracts of Bach, Vivaldi, Mozart, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, etc.

[eyeresist]

Anecdote:
Met a fellow some twenty years ago. He was a plumber in a small town outside of Montreal who decided to change his life. He knew nothing about classical music so he decided to buy a series of cds that contained one to two minute extracts of Bach, Vivaldi, Mozart, Beethoven, Tchaikovsky, etc.

... And?

[Fëanor]

... And?

And, well, I think the point is that 2-3 minute excerpts of classical composers teaches you almost nothing about classical music.  Classical music isn't about single motives however pretty or memorable.

[Fëanor]

Getting stuck in a musical rut isn't good even if the music you're stuck with is good.

This reminds me of another classical music site whose principal denizen rarely listens to anything but Beethoven or Handel, and when he does so it's with considerable condescension.

[eyeresist]

And, well, I think the point is that 2-3 minute excerpts of classical composers teaches you almost nothing about classical music.  Classical music isn't about single motives however pretty or memorable.

Someone must be listening to these things, because there are quite a few such compilations available.

[Fëanor]

Someone must be listening to these things, because there are quite a few such compilations available.

There are many engaging themes that can be cherry-picked from classical music, and cross-over goes back a long way. I remember about 40 years ago a very popular LP, (wish I could remember the actual name). Each track consisted of a familiar classical theme, first briefly play in classical style, then switched to jazz style repeating the single theme with back-beat, etc.. It was very pleasant and the recording sold a lot of copies.

A colleague's wife loved and asked me if I thought it was a good introduction to classical music. She expected me to answer in the affirmative. She was chagrined when I said I didn't thinks so because it wasn't what classical was actually about.

[Mirror Image]

I'm in agreement with Sara (Lethe). I never understood why people make these lists. I mean who are they really aimed at? Lists, like anything else that comes from someone else, is subjective. I never could make a list for beginners because I don't know what beginners should or shouldn't be listening to. Music is such a personal thing for me. I can easily make a recommendation. That's never an issue. Newcomers to classical music should explore what they want to and there shouldn't be a definite set of composers that they should listen to. What a newbie should do is use his/her own judgement and do a lot of research, which entails going over to YouTube and listening to some music. It's really all about filtering out what you like and what you don't like but you also have to keep an open-mind. Thank goodness I listened to my judgement and continued down my own path, because if I listened to what people thought I should be listening to I would have never heard of most of the composer's music I listen to now. Anyway, that's my take on this subject.

[Szykneij]

Music is such a personal thing       

Word!

[Fëanor]

I'm in agreement with Sara (Lethe). I never understood why people make these lists. I mean who are they really aimed at? Lists, like anything else that comes from someone else, is subjective. I never could make a list for beginners because I don't know what beginners should or shouldn't be listening to. Music is such a personal thing for me. I can easily make a recommendation. That's never an issue. Newcomers to classical music should explore what they want to and there shouldn't be a definite set of composers that they should listen to. What a newbie should do is use his/her own judgement and do a lot of research, which entails going over to YouTube and listening to some music. It's really all about filtering out what you like and what you don't like but you also have to keep an open-mind. Thank goodness I listened to my judgement and continued down my own path, because if I listened to what people thought I should be listening to I would have never heard of most of the composer's music I listen to now. Anyway, that's my take on this subject.

There's no harm in making a list of recommendations. The problem comes if we feel that list is somehow definitive.  I made a list, (see below); I did it as a near-beginner and the purpose was to guide my own listening. It was compiled from many popular sources -- most of which had its own list.

[Karl Henning]

And yet (particularly in the case of orchestral music) without a collective, without a consensus, the music does not get made.

[Mirror Image]

There's no harm in making a list of recommendations. The problem comes if we feel that list is somehow definitive.  I made a list, (see below); I did it as a near-beginner and the purpose was to guide my own listening. It was compiled from many popular sources -- most of which had its own list.

The general problem I ran into were people telling that I need to be listening to Beethoven or Mozart or Schubert. I don't like this kind of attitude. I listen to what I want, when I want. As I said, making a recommendation is one thing. Giving somebody some sort of guide as to what composers they should or shouldn't be listening to has never been something I'm into. I forged my own path with classical music because I was curious about the music. I had my grandfather telling me in one ear to listen to this composer and had my Dad telling me to listen to that composer in my other ear. It becomes just too much for one to deal with. A person has to go on their own and jump right in without safety nets. It's all a matter of just doing the listening and the research. I'm proud of myself for going my own way with classical music and I really pride myself knowing that I think I made some very good decisions. The reason why it all worked for me is because I did it on my own, my own way, just like anyone new to classical music will have to do. People have to learn to go with their own gut and make their own decisions about music. I may have some unpopular opinions about music and I may like some composers that nobody else likes and this is the way it's supposed to be. I listen with my heart and mind and this is what someone who is new to this music should do. The ball is in their court.

[DavidW]

The list and the reasons for it are the product of someone that doesn't really appreciate classical music.  But the intentions are pure.  Misguided, uninformative blogs are a dime a dozen.  Let it go everyone.

[Fëanor]

The general problem I ran into were people telling that I need to be listening to Beethoven or Mozart or Schubert. I don't like this kind of attitude. I listen to what I want, when I want. As I said, making a recommendation is one thing. Giving somebody some sort of guide as to what composers they should or shouldn't be listening to has never been something I'm into. I forged my own path with classical music because I was curious about the music. I had my grandfather telling me in one ear to listen to this composer and had my Dad telling me to listen to that composer in my other ear. It becomes just too much for one to deal with. A person has to go on their own and jump right in without safety nets. It's all a matter of just doing the listening and the research. I'm proud of myself for going my own way with classical music and I really pride myself knowing that I think I made some very good decisions. The reason why it all worked for me is because I did it on my own, my own way, just like anyone new to classical music will have to do. People have to learn to go with their own gut and make their own decisions about music. I may have some unpopular opinions about music and I may like some composers that nobody else likes and this is the way it's supposed to be. I listen with my heart and mind and this is what someone who is new to this music should do. The ball is in their court.

You have the right to do whatever you like and like whatever you like, but there's something above that suggests you don't care for advice. A saying of mine is, "Any fool can learn from his own mistakes; it takes a wiser person to learn from other people's". (Granted, some fools don't even learn from their own.)

I found it instructive to listen to other people's suggestions when I started listening to classical more seriously.  Doubtless it saved me a lot of time and wasted effort.  Since then I've formed my own preferences that don't necessarily conform to the original advice but it was a worthwhile learning experience.

[coffee]

Wow, I'm glad I wasn't here in 2008. Those guys hated people like me! In fact, I'm not sure I'm safe here now....

[North Star]

Wow, I'm glad I wasn't here in 2008. Those guys hated people like me! In fact, I'm not sure I'm safe here now....

Which guys?
JdP, Teresa, someone else?

[mc ukrneal]

Wow, I'm glad I wasn't here in 2008. Those guys hated people like me! In fact, I'm not sure I'm safe here now....

Well, if you really must know, it's the shoes...  

[mszczuj]

Music is such a personal thing for me.

You are of course in your right while using music in such a way. But I'm afraid it is probably the worst way of listening. You only close yourself within yourself missing possiblity to open your mind for infinity of spiritual experience mirrored in all works.

[Reverend Bong]

If this is the 'Teresa' I know from various hi-fi forums she's, to be blunt, a well-known loony and extremist who should not be debated with seriously.