Historically Speaking .. was Classical music ever 'mainstream'?

[karlhenning]

. . . there is a Deanna Durbin movie from the early 1940's, where she is singing a classical piece to a crowd of soldiers (with Stokowski on the podium!), and of course a soldier shouts out at the end: "Hey!  Sing us some real music now!"  After a slight hesitation, she of course starts singing "real" music!

Chattanooga choo-choo, wontcha choo-choo me home?

[Cato]

Chattanooga choo-choo, wontcha choo-choo me home?

Don't write 'em like that ennymore, yew betcha !

Nothin' more real than a song 'bout a locomotive!   0:)

(Wait! Honegger's  Pacific 231 ought to qualify therefore!)

[Ephemerid]

We don't consciously choose what composers we are drawn to. the music draws us, and conversely we are repeled by certain composers.

I don't necessarily agree.  Perhaps initially, but when one takes a deeper listen, no. 

When I was in my teens thru to my late twenties, my classical music listening habits were focussed almost exclusively to modern music and some baroque music.  Certainly one is initially drawn to certain sounds, and even today those are still my preferences.  HOWEVER, over the years my tastes have deepened and matured and broadened into areas I cound not have foreseen when I was younger-- which is why its always good to push one's own personal envelope. 

Of course, even when I was younger there were modern pieces I had trouble appreciating, but I plugged at it & something *clicked*.  I've found that is true of older, more "traditional" classical music as well.  I think there is always some hidden potential within everyone to broaden and deepen one's tastes, its just a matter of timing & openness (even for Mahler, who for the moment still sounds too bloated for my ears, though I've made a little headway this year already). 

There was a time when I never thought I would love Beethoven's string quartets so much, but I do!  I have found it pays to return again and again to things outside the scope of one's main interests-- every now & then, new treasures can be discovered!   We can transcend our own limited scope, and there are many rewards for doing so.

[Ephemerid]

That being said, I won't feel guilty if I find most of Mahler's music unlistenable to my ears.  Some things aren't meant to be, but that doesn't stop me from trying every once in a while.  9 times out of 10, there has always been a payoff for me.

[karlhenning]

That's right, go back a bit later. At some point, it just may hit.

[(poco) Sforzando]

But, Paul, did I misunderstand you to say that you like the Eighth Symphony?

You forget: Music chooses us, not we the music.

[(poco) Sforzando]

I don't necessarily agree.  Perhaps initially, but when one takes a deeper listen, no. 

When I was in my teens thru to my late twenties, my classical music listening habits were focussed almost exclusively to modern music and some baroque music.  Certainly one is initially drawn to certain sounds, and even today those are still my preferences.  HOWEVER, over the years my tastes have deepened and matured and broadened into areas I cound not have foreseen when I was younger-- which is why its always good to push one's own personal envelope. 

Of course, even when I was younger there were modern pieces I had trouble appreciating, but I plugged at it & something *clicked*.  I've found that is true of older, more "traditional" classical music as well.  I think there is always some hidden potential within everyone to broaden and deepen one's tastes, its just a matter of timing & openness (even for Mahler, who for the moment still sounds too bloated for my ears, though I've made a little headway this year already). 

There was a time when I never thought I would love Beethoven's string quartets so much, but I do!  I have found it pays to return again and again to things outside the scope of one's main interests-- every now & then, new treasures can be discovered!   We can transcend our own limited scope, and there are many rewards for doing so.

Very intelligently put.

[karlhenning]

You forget: Music chooses us, not we the music.

You are right, I was forgetting 

[paulb]

You are right, I was forgetting 

Yes i did sort of round about confess the 8th had stellar moments. But its like the approach Debussy took to Beethoven, avoidance. I understand Debussy and Ravel of creative necessity avoided some germanic strains, though  this should not have anything to do with my opinions of  Beethoven.
Beethoven and i are opposites in so many ways, impossible for us to meet as friends. But neither should we be enemies, yet how followers do grate my nerves at times, 'the immortal" and such.. "the god".
And sure you could go to the Pettersson forum and pin this same accusation on some things I said there.
Ephemerid has one of the better posts on the matter, we need to push our experiences. But likewise we should not push something on us that goes contrary to who we are as individuals. Its a  new modern development in man's psyche, this individualism. I admit of being a ,,,having   iconoclastic tendencies.

[Ephemerid]

Yes i did sort of round about confess the 8th had stellar moments. But its like the approach Debussy took to Beethoven, avoidance. I understand Debussy and Ravel of creative necessity avoided some germanic strains, and this should not have anything to do with my hearing Beethoven.
Ephemerid has one of the better posts on the matter, we need to push our experiences. But likewise we should not push something on us that goes contrary to who we are as individuals. Its a  new modern development in man's psyche, this individualism. I admit of being a ,,,having   iconoclastic tendencies.

No, no, no-- as was stated by Karl & Szforzando in that thread, being a composer, they were trying to establish their voice as creators.  I don't think you can use essentialism as an argument against not liking (or liking) certain composers or certain musical styles.  If someone is that rigid to other experiences, that has less to do with "who we are as individuals" than it does to prejudices, likes, dislikes, etc.  Those limitations can be transcended, or not.  The overall experience is a lot more fluid and complex than that.

[paulb]

No, no, no-- as was stated by Karl & Szforzando in that thread, being a composer, they were trying to establish their voice as creators.  I don't think you can use essentialism as an argument against not liking (or liking) certain composers or certain musical styles.  If someone is that rigid to other experiences, that has less to do with "who we are as individuals" than it does to prejudices, likes, dislikes, etc.  Those limitations can be transcended, or not.  The overall experience is a lot more fluid and complex than that.

I guess at this point i should confess my father was a  fascist, thus my perculiar stance, <"rigidity">. Now that should explain alot about my attitude. I seek no sympathy.

[millionrainbows]

My guess is that before recorded music, people had to make music themselves in order to hear it. This probably meant singing, not just in church. There were probably minstrels or people who had instruments, and folk music was heard. Whistles, flutes, clapping, beating on objects.