Why don't people use their name, or a name, on internet forums?

[knight66]

Speaking to a stranger at all is considered way beyond rude in England: they're a bunch of absolute psychos and sickos.

Sean, I am only picking you up on this; in case there are people elsewhere who actually believe what you wrote. I would not deny you your own fix on your own experiences, but you do not speak for us all living here.
Like Luke, I don't recognise your generalisation. Of course it depends on the circumstances and the topic, but if you want to discuss your soiled underwear on a busy Tube, apart from being thought of as an eccentric opener, it will certainly attract anxious looks for various reasons.

But even on the tube, where people are pretty self absorbed or focused; you can have pleasant superficial chats. I do it and am not the most gregarious of people.

Mike

[Sean]

Luke & Knight

Well this is something I've given some thought to, and my views are very very different to yours. And I'm right on this.

Knight's London subway tube is a good example of alienation: the only conversations heard are by foreigners or visitors- the locals read books and their trash magazines with a fury unknown elsewhere in the entire world, or in history, avoiding any eye contact with a skill only achieved after many years of fear and utter horror towards their fellow human beings, likewise reading and avoiding, and with very few friends.

I also try to speak languages Luke- this was just some of M's sorry one-upmanship.

I tend to find that if you are pleasant to people, and smile, and perhaps don't skulk around suspecting them of all being 'psychos' or 'sickos' they are generally pleasant to you too.

This is totally wrong and unrelated to the truth about English society. You could stand in a bar every night for twenty years in England without ever being spoken to. That's a sick society.

[knight66]

Sean, As I said, these remarks may in part reflect what happens to you. But they do not hold true across London, let alone across the UK. I am happy we leave it for people to decide on our track records of making sense.

BTW, I have travelled a reasonable amount. So, I am not stuck in some rose tinted view of my country. Like Luke, I acknowledge it is far from perfect, also that there are probably better places to live. I merely want to correct the distorted impressions you put forward.

Mike

[m_gigena]

I also try to speak languages Luke- this was just some of M's sorry one-upmanship.

I'm sure you tried to learn thai and successfully failed. I guess you then overcame the frustration by talking the universal language of money with Asian strip dancers that were hitchhiking their way home after those horrendous night shifts in clubs full of westerners that, like you, were looking for under-aged action.

[Guido]

I'm sure you tried to learn thai and successfully failed. I guess you then overcame the frustration by talking the universal language of money with Asian strip dancers that were hitchhiking their way home after those horrendous night shifts in clubs full of westerners that, like you, were looking for under-aged action.

The wit!

[lukeottevanger]

Luke & Knight

Well this is something I've given some thought to, and my views are very very different to yours. And I'm right on this.

Ah, so my own life experience in England doesn't amount to anything - only yours 'counts'. I thought as much 

[matti]

This is totally wrong and unrelated to the truth about English society. You could stand in a bar every night for twenty years in England without ever being spoken to. That's a sick society.

I spent a week in England about a year ago, and had nice, shortish chats with the locals in the smoking areas of the bars... or outside the bars. I did often start the chats, I'll give you that, but every time the response was at least polite, and we did not chat about the weather only. Sean, start smoking, that may be good for you!

[PaulR]

I just don't see the need for people that I don't know in life to know my name  

[Guido]

Oh cripes, I was being sarcastic... your comment was one of the least witty thing I've read in a long time. I can't believe that I need to explain such a simple linguistic inflection to an adult.

[Lethevich]

Sean, maybe your social skills just suck. While I am not of a normal mind-frame, so my personal experiences cannot be considered as definitive of anything, I have witnessed my friends engage in conversation with strangers time and again. Whether it is two people in the same spot in an attractive area (seaside town, Glastonbury Tor, whatever), and one of the people making a comment to the other about it, and a discussion building from that (this is IRL after all, rather than a chatroom, so you require some "excuse" to enter conversation, but those "excuses" are very easy to make), or an eye-contact made between a stranger in a park which has people relaxing in*, it's very easy to make conversation once the willingness of the other participant has been confirmed.

It's only natural that a bunch of people also don't want to talk, ESPECIALLY as you mention on the tube, as many of the people on there are on their way to work and have probably developed rituals involving this. Whether it is wanting to spend what little time they have reading the newspaper or having some quiet calm time before 8 hours of tedium, I don't know, but I can imagine that this is the case for plenty of people, as it was for me when I went to college.

*It's a great British tradition whenever the sun comes out for everybody to immediately flock to the nearest piece of grass and lay down on it in groups of friends - the lack of grass versus the amount of people means that these situations inevitably encourage socialising.

[Sean]

I'll agree to disagree.

[Tsaraslondon]

Just coming in on the tail end of this discussion. I was born in North East England. My mother is Greek, but my father was English. It never mattered to him where we were, what part of the world, what language was spoken, within 5 minutes he was chatting and talking to the locals. He had an easy, gregarious nature and was an easy communicator. I think his attitude was to believe in the good of people until proved wrong. My Greek mother has something of this quality too, but, if anything, she was the more reserved of the two. However, whenever she travels, she invariably strikes up a friendship of sorts with anyone sitting next to or near her. For the most part, I believe that people from all over the world will respond positively to a friendly and open demeanor.

[Sean]

Tsaraslondon

I believe that people from all over the world will respond positively to a friendly and open demeanor.

How most people respond will depend on the cultural context that has shaped their outlook, even if under the surface they appreciate friendliness. The English are uncommunicative, unfriendly, lack social skills, operate in cliques that last many years and hardly know how to deal with outsiders of any kind: it's not out of conscious choice of course but due to the socially repressed culture they're in.

It's related to the stratified class system, the cold weather and staying indoors, and the inherent pragmatism and parsimony that doesn't understand why one should go beyond the absolute minimum in relations with others; in America by contrast there's the concept of an 'American', a national consciousness and set of shared values that explicitly includes people via a strong civil society; the English are more interested in small minded bitching and getting the better of the next person.

[m_gigena]

Oh cripes, I was being sarcastic... your comment was one of the least witty thing I've read in a long time. I can't believe that I need to explain such a simple linguistic inflection to an adult.

.... It's your language, I'm just trying to use it...
                                                                                - Victor Borge

[karlhenning]

. . . I tend to find that if you are pleasant to people, and smile, and perhaps don't skulk around suspecting them of all being 'psychos' or 'sickos' they are generally pleasant to you too.

I have found exactly the same thing, in many different places.

[karlhenning]

Ah, so my own life experience in England doesn't amount to anything - only yours 'counts'. I thought as much 

Yes, that's a song that Sean has sung variations on before, isn't it? 

[karlhenning]

BTW, I have travelled a reasonable amount. So, I am not stuck in some rose tinted view of my country. Like Luke, I acknowledge it is far from perfect, also that there are probably better places to live. I merely want to correct the distorted impressions you put forward.

Yes, those are quite some lenses Sean has ground for himself . . . .

[Ephemerid]

...in America by contrast there's the concept of an 'American', a national consciousness and set of shared values that explicitly includes people via a strong civil society...

In theory, for those Americans who value plurality, yes, you are right.  In actual application, no.  There is a significant chunk of the US population that has a much more narrow concept of what being an "American" is. 

[MN Dave]

I've been to London. Everyone was just super.

[karlhenning]

They were gracious hosts to me, as well, Dave.