Author Topic: The unimportant news thread  (Read 352656 times)

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Ken B

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Re: The unimportant news thread
« Reply #3140 on: September 30, 2019, 05:40:50 PM »
Quote
OSLO, NORWAY—The Norwegian Nobel Committee was reportedly considering President Trump as a recipient of its prestigious Nobel Peace Prize, as the president had submitted his name for consideration to them over 67 times. But after reviewing his credentials, the committee concluded that he had not launched enough drone strikes against foreigners to qualify.

This is satire of course but well aimed satire.

Offline SimonNZ

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Re: The unimportant news thread
« Reply #3141 on: September 30, 2019, 06:20:43 PM »
Nonsense. You can be a fringe brownshirt as well as a mainstream one. Thuggery is thuggery, it doesn’t need an electoral platform.

So prolife means prolife, the Moral Majority are the moral ones, Trump is a stable genius, and you take all self applied labels at face value?  If you are dressed in black with a mask assaulting people in the streets then you are the fascist no matter what you call yourself.

No, I think they're terrible at being "anti-fascists",and am quite happy calling them "thugs" and a number of other pejoratives, mostly synonyms of "idiot" . But "fascist" has a meaning more specific than the one you're suggesting, and "brownshirt" a specific set of historical analogies. And I'm not in any way defending them, though I don't think they're the threat Fox et al makes them out to be.

At what level would you place their threat?

« Last Edit: September 30, 2019, 06:22:32 PM by SimonNZ »

Ken B

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Re: The unimportant news thread
« Reply #3142 on: September 30, 2019, 06:48:56 PM »
No, I think they're terrible at being "anti-fascists",and am quite happy calling them "thugs" and a number of other pejoratives, mostly synonyms of "idiot" . But "fascist" has a meaning more specific than the one you're suggesting, and "brownshirt" a specific set of historical analogies. And I'm not in any way defending them, though I don't think they're the threat Fox et al makes them out to be.

At what level would you place their threat?
Threat level? An irrelevant question. The behaviour is before us, I don’t need a theory of the organization,s reach.

I do FWIW think there is a threat of general escalation of political violence. (I suspect that is a motivator for some of the people we see on both sides.) I do believe it is contagious and can spread unpredictability. So I favour a quick hard stomp on such stuff.

We don’t always get it. Google Jordan Hunt kick video Toronto. He got a suspended sentence eventually for that assault. (I think he aimed for her head in fact. )

Offline SimonNZ

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Re: The unimportant news thread
« Reply #3143 on: September 30, 2019, 07:03:39 PM »
Threat level? An irrelevant question. The behaviour is before us, I don’t need a theory of the organization,s reach.

I do FWIW think there is a threat of general escalation of political violence. (I suspect that is a motivator for some of the people we see on both sides.) I do believe it is contagious and can spread unpredictability. So I favour a quick hard stomp on such stuff.

We don’t always get it. Google Jordan Hunt kick video Toronto. He got a suspended sentence eventually for that assault. (I think he aimed for her head in fact. )

I think it is relevant in considering the context of the current climate of political violence - specifically from where and from who the calls for violence are coming from, who is condoning or whitewashing it, how the statistics of violence stand among specific groups, and which groups are likely to be increasingly popular and more violent in the future.

Again: I'm not supporting this group in any way - if they're being violent they should be arrested and charged, and that seems to be what's happening. But they are not the boogeymen they're painted on Fox. Nor are they the imminent threat of mobilized political violence.

Offline Florestan

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Re: The unimportant news thread
« Reply #3144 on: September 30, 2019, 11:09:58 PM »
If you are dressed in black with a mask assaulting people in the streets then you are the fascist no matter what you call yourself.

Actually, the real fascists were not masked.

And I'm curious: these only too brave antifas, so good at scaring impotent elders, have they ever had a real fight with a real right-wing gang, which is their supposed raison d'être? If yes, who were the victors?

This is satire of course but well aimed satire.

Hah! Very good.
"Melody is the essence of music." --- Mozart

Offline Florestan

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Re: The unimportant news thread
« Reply #3145 on: September 30, 2019, 11:16:29 PM »
At what level would you place their threat?

Threat of changing the political statu quo, nonexistent level.

Threat to peaceful citizens happening to cross their way, very high level. Supposed that old lady had a heart attack, which given the circumstances I'm surprised, and glad, it didn't happen.

These hooligans should be treated with the utmost legal severity.
"Melody is the essence of music." --- Mozart

Offline Florestan

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Re: The unimportant news thread
« Reply #3146 on: September 30, 2019, 11:24:47 PM »
Brownshirts where I live. Masked thugs yelling at an old lady with a walker
https://mobile.twitter.com/MrAndyNgo/status/1178498843597344768
Three miles from where I am sitting.

The comments by David and Stephanie Blake made my day.

Alos worth noting, the passive attitude of three guys who just indifferently filmed or photographed the incident without trying to make the thugs come to their senses. And a big bravo for the bearded guy who helped the lady.
"Melody is the essence of music." --- Mozart

Offline SimonNZ

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Re: The unimportant news thread
« Reply #3147 on: October 01, 2019, 01:16:53 AM »

These hooligans should be treated with the utmost legal severity.

They should be treated with the legal severity matching legal guidelines and legal standards for any crimes they commit.


Offline SimonNZ

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Re: The unimportant news thread
« Reply #3148 on: October 01, 2019, 01:22:36 AM »

And I'm curious: these only too brave antifas, so good at scaring impotent elders, have they ever had a real fight with a real right-wing gang, which is their supposed raison d'être? If yes, who were the victors?


At Charlottesville, though its hard to get a clear sense of how exactly  that went down.

At the time there were people here posting photos of guys wearing swastikas with bruises, who took this to prove that Antifa and the anti-Nazis protesters were the real villains (aww...did the poor widdle Nazi get a boo-boo?).

Offline Florestan

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Re: The unimportant news thread
« Reply #3149 on: October 01, 2019, 02:17:51 AM »
They should be treated with the legal severity matching legal guidelines and legal standards for any crimes they commit.

Exactly what I said. I'm sure that disrupting public order and harrassing people in the streets are crimes in the US just as they are in Romania.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 02:20:51 AM by Florestan »
"Melody is the essence of music." --- Mozart

Offline SimonNZ

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Re: The unimportant news thread
« Reply #3150 on: October 01, 2019, 02:28:46 AM »
Exactly what I said. I'm sure that disrupting public order and harrassing people in the streets are crimes in the US just as they are in Romania.

Okay, but then they'll have to do the same to the harassers outside abortion clinics etc.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 02:30:24 AM by SimonNZ »

Offline Florestan

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Re: The unimportant news thread
« Reply #3151 on: October 01, 2019, 02:30:59 AM »
Okay, but then they'll have to do the same to the harassers outside abortion clinics.

If they behave as aggressively, they should be punished the same. A just cause is not made juster by violence, on the contrary, it is harmed.
"Melody is the essence of music." --- Mozart

Offline ritter

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Re: The unimportant news thread
« Reply #3152 on: October 01, 2019, 05:18:13 AM »
If they behave as aggressively, they should be punished the same. A just cause is not made juster by violence, on the contrary, it is harmed.
Unfortunately, the diabolical idea that "violence committed by us on them is somehow justifiable, while violence committed by them on us is completely intolerable" is getting an ever stronger grip in many circles (and in many countries).  :o :( >:(
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Offline Florestan

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Re: The unimportant news thread
« Reply #3153 on: October 01, 2019, 05:26:20 AM »
Unfortunately, the diabolical idea that "violence committed by us on them is somehow justifiable, while violence committed by them on us is completely intolerable" is getting an ever stronger grip in many circles (and in many countries).  :o :( >:(

Well, it might very well be that the period in which this idea seemed to have subsided was just a (too short) interlude...
"Melody is the essence of music." --- Mozart

Ken B

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Re: The unimportant news thread
« Reply #3154 on: October 01, 2019, 06:13:45 AM »
Unfortunately, the diabolical idea that "violence committed by us on them is somehow justifiable, while violence committed by them on us is completely intolerable" is getting an ever stronger grip in many circles (and in many countries).  :o :( >:(

Exactly right. And why it cannot be tolerated: if it is it will spread.

And in that light let me remark on Simon’s repeated reference to Charlottesville and Fox. We don’t have Fox in Canada and this story does not involve Fox. Nor did we have swastikas and burning torches.  We had elderly people crossing the road with a walker.

Ken B

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Re: The unimportant news thread
« Reply #3155 on: October 01, 2019, 06:22:10 AM »
Oddly enough I was
Just rereading a book on the origins of wwI   
The authorities knew about Princip. What do you think was their assessment of the threat level ?

 ;)  :laugh:

More seriously how many people remember that Canada was under martial law in peacetime, in my lifetime? Or know that our non murder violent crime rate is a bit higher than in the USA? The potential for violence here is greater than the “polite Canadian” stereotype suggests.

ADDED
And two years ago also in Hamilton we had “anti capitalist” rioters, also masked, rampage downtown. They caused millions in damages and destroyed a couple places including a small donut shop that had just opened. The reaction here was encouraging. We had campaigns to raise money to pay for damages, and a week long festival of shopping in the affected area, with traffic closed off. The donut shop had long lines for over 6 months (in a city with oodles of Tim Horton stores). The police worked for months and arrested the ring leader, who is in jail. A massive and thrilling “fuck you”.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 07:12:41 AM by Ken B »

Ken B

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Re: The unimportant news thread
« Reply #3156 on: October 01, 2019, 04:30:35 PM »
Update from one of the local papers https://www.hamiltonnews.com/opinion-story/9622448-apparently-i-m-nazi-scum-/#.XZNtLGvfAON.twitter

And more details, also from the local paper
https://www.hamiltonnews.com/news-story/9621255-hamilton-police-arrest-four-individuals-after-protest-against-ppc-leader-maxime-bernier-s-mohawk-college-event-turns-violent/

I want to highlight one detail. The red caps a few people were apparently wearing (I only ever saw one) said “Make Canada Great Again”. This is much more plausible than the CBC claim about MAGA and is a nice example of why I distrust the CBC. They are sloppy and tendentious. They didn’t bother to check.

For several years whenever I heard on CBC some factual matter I had first hand knowledge of they were wrong. My favorite example was calling Guelph a “long time bellwether riding” This couldn’t be more wrong. At the federal and provincial level the riding had members, of opposing parties, who served decades, winning by large amounts, even in the face of landslides. After they retired Guelph still usually bucked the trend, and last election elected only the second Green Party member in the country. Bellwether my ass.
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 04:44:24 PM by Ken B »

Offline SimonNZ

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Re: The unimportant news thread
« Reply #3157 on: October 01, 2019, 05:10:40 PM »
What do they mean by Make Canada Great Again? Hasn't Canada had a pretty consistent level of goodness?

Offline greg

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Re: The unimportant news thread
« Reply #3158 on: October 01, 2019, 05:34:50 PM »
But because identity politics (despite lip service to "intersectionality") overall blinds people to economic inequality (that's why it serves as a divide and conquer tool for the 0.1%) this is not so often talked about.
That's exactly what my observation has been.

Maybe my perception is wrong about this, but it just seems like identity politics exploded after Occupy Wall Street died down. If it's no coincidence, than it may be intentional as a divide and conquer tactic by whoever decides what media stories would be about. But it also could be a million other things, so personally I don't stick to conclusion, really, because we will never have that sort of information even if it were the case.


(put another way, the super rich may have gotten pissed that people were protesting them so they manipulated the masses to argue amongst themselves about divisive things such as gender, racial violence by cops, etc. to divert their attention and stay in control)
« Last Edit: October 01, 2019, 05:37:25 PM by greg »
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Offline JBS

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Re: The unimportant news thread
« Reply #3159 on: October 01, 2019, 06:56:58 PM »
What do they mean by Make Canada Great Again? Hasn't Canada had a pretty consistent level of goodness?

I read the PPC platform earlier tonight.  To me it sounds like a straight adaptation into Canadian of Trump's program.

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