Alfred Schnittke (1934-1998)

[Karl Henning]

Well, here's the BIS:
http://www.youtube.com/v/GlZrJqPrdNQ

Listened to this again, since it's been a while, and enjoyed it. I really like the atmosphere of this symphony. I'm not sure how to describe it, but it kind of reminds me of the atmosphere in an area of my favorite game where time stands still (there's a large bell in this area, too).

I don't hear anything shocking in it, so I'm wondering, too, if it's the recording.

Thanks, Greg! Nice to hear the BIS recording.  I do not recall anything 'shocking' about the Polyansky recording of the Fourth . . . not a thing, at all.

[Karl Henning]

Well, if Schnittke was "after shock value" in his Fourth Symphony, then the piece is a signal failure.

But I think that the goals of the piece were very much other, and I think it one of the greatest successes in his symphony cycle.

[ibanezmonster]

Ooo, elaborate please.    I'm always interested in video game music.

Well, here's a glimpse of the area I'm talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4foetX8zbnk

(couldn't really get as much as I wanted, since they talk a lot on playthroughs, but no talking on this one)

The music before that, during the first part of the Dead Sea, has this music playing the background:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ine3_jdQIIs

which actually always reminded me of the 2nd movement of Mozart's 23rd piano concerto. All of these have this empty, time standing still quality. 

[Mirror Image]

Well, if Schnittke was "after shock value" in his Fourth Symphony, then the piece is a signal failure.

But I think that the goals of the piece were very much other, and I think it one of the greatest successes in his symphony cycle.

I'm talking about Schnittke in general was after shock value, which seemed to be his only aim IMHO. It had no relation to the 4th. As for the 4th, my feelings on this symphony have been stated already.

[Karl Henning]

I don't think you can have that both ways, John; if being after shock value (your humble opinion) was "his only aim," how can the remark have no relation to a whole symphony of his?

A pity you think so poorly of the Fourth! I find it a marvelous, luminous piece.

[Mirror Image]

I don't think you can have that both ways, John; if being after shock value (your humble opinion) was "his only aim," how can the remark have no relation to a whole symphony of his?

A pity you think so poorly of the Fourth! I find it a marvelous, luminous piece.

Well perhaps it wasn't his only aim but I'm getting the impression that it very well could be with each Schnittke symphony I hear. For me, the 4th just doesn't have enough orchestral involvement in it. I guess I'm just looking for things in Schnittke which simply aren't there. Anyway, I'm not worried about not liking his music any more. I have so many other composers that I truly love that I'm just not going to waste my time on Schnittke.

[TheGSMoeller]

Well, here's a glimpse of the area I'm talking about:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4foetX8zbnk

(couldn't really get as much as I wanted, since they talk a lot on playthroughs, but no talking on this one)

The music before that, during the first part of the Dead Sea, has this music playing the background:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ine3_jdQIIs

which actually always reminded me of the 2nd movement of Mozart's 23rd piano concerto. All of these have this empty, time standing still quality.

Chrono Cross, you're an old school gamer. Very nice.    Thanks for sharing.

[Karl Henning]

Well perhaps it wasn't his only aim but I'm getting the impression that it very well could be with each Schnittke symphony I hear. For me, the 4th just doesn't have enough orchestral involvement in it. I guess I'm just looking for things in Schnittke which simply aren't there.

Well, you certainly seem to be looking for something that isn't in the Fourth Symphony, whose instrumental component is a chamber orchestra.

And I should agree: if you cannot enjoy Schnittke's music for what is in there, you're not doing either the composer or yourself any great service.

Sure it must be a shock when he employs a chamber orchestra ; )

[Mirror Image]

Well, you certainly seem to be looking for something that isn't in the Fourth Symphony, whose instrumental component is a chamber orchestra.

And I should agree: if you cannot enjoy Schnittke's music for what is in there, you're not doing either the composer or yourself any great service.

Sure it must be a shock when he employs a chamber orchestra ; )

Didn't know the 4th employed a chamber orchestra, but this makes no difference whatsoever for me. I love Stravinsky's music and many of his works used chamber forces. I either a: like the music or b: don't like it. I just don't like his style of composition and I'm not just talking about his 4th symphony. I'm talking about his other 7 too and some of the various other works I heard, which Peer Gynt, which deserves a better recording IMHO, is the only one that made any kind of significant impression on me.

At least I gave Schnittke another go, I can't say many people would have done this, but at least I tried to like the music.

[not edward]

All this talk of the 4th made me do a little research, and discover that the Rozhdestvensky recording of the 4th is dirt cheap on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Symphony-No-4-Alfred-Schnittke/dp/B000003JHX/

One copy down ... a few left.

[snyprrr]

All this talk of the 4th made me do a little research, and discover that the Rozhdestvensky recording of the 4th is dirt cheap on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Symphony-No-4-Alfred-Schnittke/dp/B000003JHX/

One copy down ... a few left.

Oh, you aaaare naughty, haha!!!

[Karl Henning]

All this talk of the 4th made me do a little research, and discover that the Rozhdestvensky recording of the 4th is dirt cheap on Amazon:

http://www.amazon.com/Symphony-No-4-Alfred-Schnittke/dp/B000003JHX/

One copy down ... a few left.

Thanks, Edward! I'm in.

[TheGSMoeller]

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My first Schnittke symphony, delivers such an ethereal quality, very powerful and thoughtful, I think I'm going to enjoy this journey.

[Karl Henning]

Cool, Greg. I'm about due for a re-immersion in Schnittke; I had a good sonic soaking last April/May, and not a note but I grooved to.

[TheGSMoeller]

Cool, Greg. I'm about due for a re-immersion in Schnittke; I had a good sonic soaking last April/May, and not a note but I grooved to.

Well, I have a large amount of Schnittke awaiting my listening, thanks to a generous friend, so I have much more soaking to do myself...I'll keep you informed on my findings, Karl, and will be interested to hear your views.

[lescamil]

Didn't know the 4th employed a chamber orchestra, but this makes no difference whatsoever for me. I love Stravinsky's music and many of his works used chamber forces. I either a: like the music or b: don't like it. I just don't like his style of composition and I'm not just talking about his 4th symphony. I'm talking about his other 7 too and some of the various other works I heard, which Peer Gynt, which deserves a better recording IMHO, is the only one that made any kind of significant impression on me.

At least I gave Schnittke another go, I can't say many people would have done this, but at least I tried to like the music.

Don't give up until you've heard the piano concertos disk with Kupiec and Lettberg!

[Karl Henning]

. . . I either a: like the music or b: don't like it.

I appreciate your honesty here, John. A pity, though, that it's such a straightforward opposition for you!

Myself, when I don't like a piece, I do not find that phenomenon to be an "equal but opposite" quantity to my liking this other piece.  There are a hundred pieces which I "didn't like" on an initial hearing, or even for extended periods, which I have since come to like. In some cases, a piece which I did not like at all on a first hearing, is now one of my signal favorites; one example here would be the Shostakovich Fourth Symphony.

At least I gave Schnittke another go, I can't say many people would have done this, but at least I tried to like the music.

Um, if you cannot say that many people would have done this, you need to exercise your imagination more.  There may be more people with open musical minds than you give them credit for.

Of course, it is a temptation to think highest of ourselves, and to feel that few people have a mind as open as our own. One argument for cultivating the virtue of humility, I suppose.

Personally, I have seen — even on GMG alone — many instances of people giving a piece, or a composer, a 'fresh shake'. They are an inspiring example.

[Karl Henning]

Don't give up until you've heard the piano concertos disk with Kupiec and Lettberg!

I love this disc!  And agree heartily on its musical merits.

John may simply not like the music, of course.

Hey! I've got an idea!  On each composer-specific thread, let's all take for granted the fact that any given listener may just not like it. That way, it isn't necessary for, say, Jack Blue, who cannot stand the music of Roussel, to post in the Roussel thread "I just don't like this music."

[Mirror Image]

I appreciate your honesty here, John. A pity, though, that it's such a straightforward opposition for you!

Myself, when I don't like a piece, I do not find that phenomenon to be an "equal but opposite" quantity to my liking this other piece.  There are a hundred pieces which I "didn't like" on an initial hearing, or even for extended periods, which I have since come to like. In some cases, a piece which I did not like at all on a first hearing, is now one of my signal favorites; one example here would be the Shostakovich Fourth Symphony.

Um, if you cannot say that many people would have done this, you need to exercise your imagination more.  There may be more people with open musical minds than you give them credit for.

Of course, it is a temptation to think highest of ourselves, and to feel that few people have a mind as open as our own. One argument for cultivating the virtue of humility, I suppose.

Personally, I have seen — even on GMG alone — many instances of people giving a piece, or a composer, a 'fresh shake'. They are an inspiring example.

I certainly understand what you're saying, Karl. I shouldn't have given up on Schnittke so easily, but I just can't get onboard with the music. No worries, as I said, there are so many other composers whose music that I do love that it's enough to keep me busy for a lifetime.

[ibanezmonster]

Revisited both the 8th and 2nd symphonies.

I want to listen to the 9th again soon. I like this quote, which could as well describe the sound of the 8th:

Composer and conductor William C. White concisely analyzes and interprets the Symphony No. 9 by Schnittke on his own web site. He writes: I think this is music of someone who is already dead – as Schnittke had been, having been pronounced clinically dead on several occasions during his strokes. Much of the music sounds like the exploratory wanderings of a ghost during his first encounter with a new, otherworldly universe and then concludes: It is a delicate work, to be sure, and I think there is a lot of richness to keep exploring in it's nuances