J.S. Bach on the Organ

[Marc]

A CD shop owner, so they still exist here and there? I am utterly jealous of the shop that Que has nearby his home. In Groningen there are no shops of renown that I know off, and what they had to say about classical music or organists (Carillion) was not worth repeating.
I personally have no hot line to God, to ask him about money and the having of it, but be sure as soon as we meet, I will ask him.
Anyways presently I have 6 boxes with the complete organ music by Bach in the waiting, and will start listening to them for the first time, while two sets are going at the second time.  And since I have my birthday this week, I fully expect to get some more of Bach organ works. I gave clear instructions, so no fear of getting the wrong interpretations. Ardesch was virtually unknown to me.

The shop I was referring to isn't in Groningen, but in Ljouwert/Liwadden/Leeuwarden.
They already went online in the 1990s, and, according to the owner, it's still paying off.

And I think that Groningen (compared to many other cities in NL) isn't that bad off. I'm having a good relationship with 't Carillon and I hope they manage to survive. But yes, organ music isn't the Speciality of the House, even though I bought my Bach/Alain 3, Bach/Koopman and Bach/Vernet boxes there.
Sometimes I switch to the bookshop of Van der Velde (near the Der Aa Kerk). One of the employees is an enthousiastic classical music lover and always shows me his latest 'discovery', but, after all the polite blabbering, I still decide for myself what to buy.

I.c. events this week: I wish you a happy birthday, Harry! Listening to Bach's organ music might add to the enjoyment! Don't hesitate in letting us know what your thoughts are, here and/or on your blog.

[KevinP]

I'm looking for recommendations on a complete Bach organ box set. I've skimmed through this thread, but 113 pages is quite a lot to take in, plus the thread isn't specifically about complete sets.

I know little about pipes organs and grew up not particularly liking the instrument (to put it mildly). So justifications of your choices would be appreciated.

Comments on not-complete-but-sizable collections also welcomed.

[XB-70 Valkyrie]

Possibly the best overall (although I certainly haven't heard all!), or at least very, very good. The sound quality is generally quite good, the performances technically excellent with very interesting registrations in many cases. She has a great feeling for the music. The price is very cheap as well!



https://www.amazon.com/Bach-Complete-Organ-Marie-Claire-Alain/dp/B004RUF022/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1478999432&sr=8-2&keywords=bach+alain+organ

Keep in mind that "complete" may mean different things to different people. Some sets call themselves complete but lack the Art of Fugue (which in fairness, was not written specifically for organ). Other sets lack the Concerti (After Vivaldi), which are well worth owning, and yet call themselves "complete".

[KevinP]

Thanks!

And yeah, I noticed that with the sheer number of discs a set requires there must be notable variation on what constitutes 'complete.'

Awaiting delivery of the not-nearly-complete Karl Richter 3-disc set.

[XB-70 Valkyrie]

I actually like Karl Richter a great deal in this repertoire. The three disc set on DG is one of the weaker of his recordings, mostly because of the organs, which sound a bit electronic to me (they are not). The Richter one you want is on Teldec in which he is playing some beautiful Arp Schnitger instruments. Sorry, couldn't find it on Amazon right now--maybe OP.

[Jo498]

There are also a bunch of pieces of dubious authorship and/or only discovered/edited some time after e.g. Walcha's recordings were made.

This may not be very helpful but as someone who was not too fond of organ music until about a year ago, I would not recommend a big box. Such a box can both be overwhelming by the sheer amount of music and the range of both organ sounds and playing styles is so wide that a box from one organist (although often different instruments) might appear boring simply because you are not too fond of his/her style or the organ sounds.

Some separate discs can be found rather cheaply (although with the current cheap boxes you will never beat them for price). The first message in the thread has a nice list of single/double discs to sample a variety of organists and organs.

[KevinP]

I have a couple single-disc titles (Koopman, Alain) that I've been listening to lately. I'm ready for more.

[prémont]

I actually like Karl Richter a great deal in this repertoire. The three disc set on DG is one of the weaker of his recordings, mostly because of the organs, which sound a bit electronic to me (they are not). The Richter one you want is on Teldec in which he is playing some beautiful Arp Schnitger instruments. Sorry, couldn't find it on Amazon right now--maybe OP.

You must think of the one (LP from ca 1958, released on CD about 1995) played on the Schnitger organ, Norden, containing the triosonatas BWV 527 and 530, the piece d´orgue BWV 572 and the pastorale BWV 590. It was made long time before the informed restoration of this organ, and at that time it did not sound much Schnitger. Also the recording is mono - or rather: I have never seen a stereo release. I think Richter's playing here was effective, but stiff and colorless.

I much prefer the DGG recordings on the Marcussen organ, Jægersborg to these above. The playing has more life and interest.The Jægersborg organ was one of the first intended neo-baroque organs, but except for its trompette en chamade it sounds rather generic. I can say, that the sound on the CDs is very true to the actual sound of this organ.

[prémont]

Some separate discs can be found rather cheaply (although with the current cheap boxes you will never beat them for price). The first message in the thread has a nice list of single/double discs to sample a variety of organists and organs.

Yes, I would stick to this list. The above mentioned Alain set is also a nice choice, played on well restored baroque organs (with one exception) and relatively cheap. The most obvious competitor is the Foccroulle set (Ricercare) and maybe the Weinberger set (CPO). Most available sets however are played on modern or mostly on modern organs.

[Marc]

There are also a bunch of pieces of dubious authorship and/or only discovered/edited some time after e.g. Walcha's recordings were made.
[...]

And the Neumeister chorales (BWV 1090-1120), who were attributed to Bach by Christoph Wolff et al around 1985.
Even some 'complete' organists who began recording their integrals after that, didn't include them, like Simon Preston and the above-mentioned Marie-Claire Alain.

I don't know which integrals are still 'in print' nowadays, but Foccroulle (Ricercar) is a very good choice, HIP-influenced playing on beautiful historic instruments.
Weinberger (CPO) is solid, too, and I personally like the cycle of Ewald Kooiman & pupils (AEOLUS) very much, played on 'French' Silbermann organs in great sound. But that set might be quite expensive.

[kishnevi]

My favorite is Vernet, but that us OOP and priced accordingly.

You might do best with the Hanssler set, which used a variety of organists and organs, and organized chronologically, as much these works can be organized that way. It was a subset of their Complete Bach box, but is available independently. Not sure how it's priced at the moment.

[XB-70 Valkyrie]

You must think of the one (LP from ca 1958, released on CD about 1995) played on the Schnitger organ, Norden, containing the triosonatas BWV 527 and 530, the piece d´orgue BWV 572 and the pastorale BWV 590. It was made long time before the informed restoration of this organ, and at that time it did not sound much Schnitger. Also the recording is mono - or rather: I have never seen a stereo release. I think Richter's playing here was effective, but stiff and colorless.

...

Hi, The Teldec set I have does indeed have these works, but the date on one is listed as 1971, and the discs are both labeled "Stereo". Here it is. Well worth owning IMO--especially for the Chorale Partita Sei gegrüßet Jesu gütig, BWV 768.

[KevinP]

Hi, The Teldec set I have does indeed have these works, but the date on one is listed as 1971, and the discs are both labeled "Stereo". Here it is. Well worth owning IMO--especially for the Chorale Partita Sei gegrüßet Jesu gütig, BWV 768.

If you see a place online that sells it, let me know please. Can't be in print, but it's odd that no third-party sellers offer it. I won't pay a super OOP price, but if it were slightly higher than new, I'd consider it. Richter's sacred vocal works has earned him much respect from me, and his organ recordings are spoken about just as highly.

[Marc]

My favorite is Vernet, but that us OOP and priced accordingly.

You might do best with the Hanssler set, which used a variety of organists and organs, and organized chronologically, as much these works can be organized that way. It was a subset of their Complete Bach box, but is available independently. Not sure how it's priced at the moment.

Yep, the Hänssler set is a gem, too.
Forgot all about that one.

[Jo498]

I was about to recommend the Hänssler which is rather cheap in Germany. Regularly around 40 EUR, but there have been sales offers for around 20 and even lower. I am not through with it but it is very complete and offers a range of players and organs. The documentation is somewhat flimsy, though, in the cheap 20 disc box. The organ buffs who need 3 pages on every organ will be disappointed (there is usually a few lines on the organ/builder, not more).

[prémont]

Hi, The Teldec set I have does indeed have these works, but the date on one is listed as 1971, and the discs are both labeled "Stereo". Here it is. Well worth owning IMO--especially for the Chorale Partita Sei gegrüßet Jesu gütig, BWV 768.

This CDset is a combination of two LPs, the one I wrote about above and another containing BWV 538 and BWV 768, both played on the -  at that time (1950es) new Ott organ, the so called Marien-orgel in the monastery church, Ottobeuren, DE (Karl Riepp just managed to buuild the Heilig Geist-orgel and the Dreifaltigheits-orgel of the three planned organs there, the Marien-orgel had to wait for financial reasons). I purchased the two LPs in the late 1960es , and the recording dates seem to be 1960 for the Norden recording and 1957 for the Ottobeuren recording. I have since parted with them, after having digitized the one with BWV 538 and 768. It may be, that the Norden recording was made in stereo originally.

Reference:

http://www.jsbach.org/richterorganworks.html

http://www.bach-cantatas.com/NVP/Richter-K.htm

[KevinP]

Picked this up today:



Mostly just want to hear an organ recording in 5.1 though it'll be a while before I can hear the hi-rez layer.

Anyone heard this? (Either layer of course)

This one, as the image link might not be working:
https://www.amazon.com/Goldberg-Variationen-Martin-Schmeding/dp/B002985NQM

[prémont]

Picked this up today:



Anyone heard this? (Either layer of course)

Don't know it. I have ordered it on ordinary CD.

The most uplifting organ version I have heard of the Goldbergs until now is the version on Brilliant by Elena Barshai.

[Mandryka]

I'd be interested to know what you both make of Schmeding, for me some of his registrations, rhythms, phrasing, voicing and tempos give the music the feeling of comedy, like organ music for when Coco the clown enters the big top and does his slapstick.

[KevinP]

I've not spent a lot of time with it yet, but I know what you mean. Still, the association of organ music with the big top comes well after Bach's time, so for all we know, those registrations could have been used and only abandoned/avoided more recently.

But yeah, it's hard to distance ourselves from it.