J.S. Bach on the Organ

[Mandryka]

I thought you would know when  I talk about cabling I meant interlinks and  loudspeaker cables.
Valve amps give a warmer sound but are less precise. But I like valve amps.

I listened to an old Copland amp, hybrid integrated, which had a lovely autumnal golden sound through Tannoy Lancasters. I'm looking out for one. But valves are a bit scary . . .

I'm increasingly convinced that recording quality is a major factor in my bass issues, I'm listening now to Vogel's Georg Bohm CD, and the bass is tight. Before that I heard Wiersma  play some orgelbuchlein, and the bass sounds fine (though clearly the recording isn't as impressive as Vogel's)

[SurprisedByBeauty]

I have a valve headphone amp (nice compromise; you could never drive Thiels with valve amps... they EAT power, despite their delicate output). Valves aren't that scary, once you get used to it.

[Mandryka]

I just have this vision of going to play music and it just spits static at me, because one of the valves needs changing. What I'd really like is a classic Brit valve amp - Redford or Leak or Quad. But they aren't powerful enough for my ESL 63s which was really designed with big transistor amps in mind. I maybe should explore the more recent quads, to see  whether they have the warm magic of the old valve amps.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

Get backup valves. I finally did, just in case. Fortunately you don't need to spend a fortune on good valves; the whole "NOS" obsession is overrated. There's plenty good new stock available.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

I thought you would know when  I talk about cabling I meant interlinks and  loudspeaker cables.
Valve amps give a warmer sound but are less precise. But I like valve amps.

I am in the league of valve amps as well. I use EL84, EL34, and KT88 amps, and everything, especially piano, sounds very good. 10W for tube amps is loud and powerful enough.

[SurprisedByBeauty]

Finished Chapuis tonight; the last two discs ring out on a conciliatory note: The concertos and various chorales. The bright registration that he uses consistently throughout the set works well here.

[Mandryka]

I am in the league of valve amps as well. I use EL84, EL34, and KT88 amps, and everything, especially piano, sounds very good. 10W for tube amps is loud and powerful enough.

Yes but unfortunately 10W will not be enough for my speakers, ESL 63s are particularly demanding.

[Mandryka]

You simply need good equipment, and good speakers, if so, you don't need a Subwoofer, certainly not with Quad ESL. I had them aeons ago matched with the 33-303 Quad amplification, and there was more than enough bass, and yes also with the 32 feet pipes.
If you hear a growl, you better look at your amplification, and above all the CD player! Cabling is also an issue.

The solution, I'm pleased and embarrassed to say, was simpler than that, I just needed to turn the subwoofer volume down a little. That track is useful for setting up subwoofers I think.

[Elk]

Mandryka, I'm glad the solution was so simple. I'm also glad to hear you're using subs with the ESL 63s, which, IMHO, need a bit of help in the low extreme. From what I've read, the Gradients should work admirably.

I finally had the time to listen to the Weinberger, and , yes, it does have fine extension  into the low 30s. One track I use when assessing extension is from an old Capriccio recording of Hannes Kästner playing BWV 639, Ich ruf zu dir, Herr Jesu Christ. It too has clear lines with that 'walking' bass into the low 30s. For those 32' pipes, when I want to really test the lungs of the system (read: impress others), I turn up the gain on Peter Hurford's Mendelssohn recording.

[Mandryka]

Mandryka, I'm glad the solution was so simple. I'm also glad to hear you're using subs with the ESL 63s, which, IMHO, need a bit of help in the low extreme. From what I've read, the Gradients should work admirably.

I finally had the time to listen to the Weinberger, and , yes, it does have fine extension  into the low 30s. One track I use when assessing extension is from an old Capriccio recording of Hannes Kästner playing BWV 639, Ich ruf zu dir, Herr Jesu Christ. It too has clear lines with that 'walking' bass into the low 30s. For those 32' pipes, when I want to really test the lungs of the system (read: impress others), I turn up the gain on Peter Hurford's Mendelssohn recording.

When you have very deep sounds, should you be able to feel it?

[Traverso]

When you have very deep sounds, should you be able to feel it?

Sure,but be aware of your neighbours.

[Karl Henning]

Sure,but be aware of your neighbours.

Part of the joy of listening to a fine organ in its space (feeling the power of the lower frequencies, I mean).

[Mandryka]

Part of the joy of listening to a fine organ in its space (feeling the power of the lower frequencies, I mean).

So when you're in the church listening to a very deep note on an organ, can you sense it through your feet, as it were?

[Harry]

When the 16 and 32 pipes kick in, I feel it coming through my feet, and ending in my stomach. So it goes low, very low.

[Mandryka]

When the 16 and 32 pipes kick in, I feel it coming through my feet, and ending in my stomach. So it goes low, very low.

So this is what I'm feeling sometimes though the subs. Thanks, this is an aspect of music which is new to me!

[Elk]

Probably. A lot not only depends on the sub(s), but on the room. For example, one of my audio heroes is Dr. Floyd Toole, the man who basically created the double-blind loudspeaker test co-related with objective measurement to determine what object characteristics result in repeatably, winning results in listening tests, once described to me a recording studio that had been build on a concrete slab. When recordings were mixed, the engineers boosted the bass so that they could hear it, and the result was recordings with bloated bass when played back elsewhere. They built a wooden floor on top of the slab. The engineers could now feel the bass as well as hear it-- problem solved. In churches, as well as homes, a lot depends on whether the floor is suspended, or on grade. As for your subs, Madryka, they supposedly have useful output to 28 HZ, so what your might hear below that is hard to say, particularly since the Gradient subs are dipole, so there will be some, if not considerable, cancellation of notes. This is a weakness of dipoles.

[Karl Henning]

So when you're in the church listening to a very deep note on an organ, can you sense it through your feet, as it were?

When the 16 and 32 pipes kick in, I feel it coming through my feet, and ending in my stomach. So it goes low, very low.

Yes, indeed.  Part of why they call the organ the King of Instruments.

[Mandryka]

Probably. A lot not only depends on the sub(s), but on the room. For example, one of my audio heroes is Dr. Floyd Toole, the man who basically created the double-blind loudspeaker test co-related with objective measurement to determine what object characteristics result in repeatably, winning results in listening tests, once described to me a recording studio that had been build on a concrete slab. When recordings were mixed, the engineers boosted the bass so that they could hear it, and the result was recordings with bloated bass when played back elsewhere. They built a wooden floor on top of the slab. The engineers could now feel the bass as well as hear it-- problem solved. In churches, as well as homes, a lot depends on whether the floor is suspended, or on grade. As for your subs, Madryka, they supposedly have useful output to 28 HZ, so what your might hear below that is hard to say, particularly since the Gradient subs are dipole, so there will be some, if not considerable, cancellation of notes. This is a weakness of dipoles.

The space behind is padded with bass traps, they're about 1m from the wall.

[Dry Brett Kavanaugh]

The original label stil lists it a little cheaper (however posting costs may differ):

https://www.jpc.de/jpcng/cpo/detail/-/art/Johann-Sebastian-Bach-1685-1750-S%E4mtliche-Orgelwerke/hnum/7006321

Good: I ordered the Weinberger set. Though the web site says €50, they only charged €42 plus 4 shipping.

Bad: As for the receipient's address on the order page, there was no section for state/province. Just a minute after placing the order, I realized it and sent a message to the customer service to add my state. Next day, they gave me an email and said that they cannot modify the address once an order is placed. I was speechless. Since the address they have includes a postal code, I hope it will be delivered, but we are talking about the U.S. Postal Service.

[Alek Hidell]

Good: I ordered the Weinberger set. Though the web site says €50, they only charged €42 plus 4 shipping.

Bad: As for the receipient's address on the order page, there was no section for state/province. Just a minute after placing the order, I realized it and sent a message to the customer service to add my state. Next day, they gave me an email and said that they cannot modify the address once an order is placed. I was speechless. Since the address they have includes a postal code, I hope it will be delivered, but we are talking about the U.S. Postal Service.

You'll probably get it. I'm pretty sure I've had that situation before - or at least there was no state listed on the address label when it arrived. As long as the city and zip code are there, it should make its way to you.