Bernstein says that Beethoven was the greatest composer

[Saul]

I disagree.

Though Beethoven was a great composer , I am not ready to call him the greatest composer ever.
Mendelssohn's early (age 13-14) piano trios concertos and quartets contradict Bernstein's  assertion. Even Mozart's symphony No.40 in G minor would discredit his comments.

He makes this comment in this video:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ZYn865RiRE&feature=related

[Josquin des Prez]

Mendelssohn's early (age 13-14) piano trios concertos and quartets contradict Bernstein's  assertion.

Beethoven's late piano sonatas and quartets contradict your assertion.

[(poco) Sforzando]

When you get to be as famous as Leonard Bernstein, you can make your own video to rebut him.

[Saul]

Beethoven's late piano sonatas and quartets contradict your assertion.

Check Mendy's Concerto in D minor for Piano & Violin written at 13 and you make your own decision then..

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZR-zHrhH0Qc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFKPKx0lQWE&feature=related

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zUWm1Xy39rs&feature=related

[Josquin des Prez]

Did Mendelssohn ever wrote something like this, irrespective of age?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORrYCjtckM0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkeMlZThfHc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=repcFTXxL7A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXYbGr5RaKM

I rest my case.

[Saul]

Did Mendelssohn ever wrote something like this, irrespective of age?:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ORrYCjtckM0

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZkeMlZThfHc

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=repcFTXxL7A

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EXYbGr5RaKM

I rest my case.

Ah... Brahms famously had said that he would have given up all his compositions if he would had been able to write something like :


This

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3_Px2yXVbw

Try to bit that...

[eyeresist]

Brahms also gave an autograph, in which he scribbled a few bars from the Blue Danube, and wrote beneath, "Not by Brahms, alas!"

So J Strauss II was the best composer ever!

[lukeottevanger]

I have no idea what on earth age has to do with the matter - the quality of the music is all that counts. There have been many astonishing prodigies in music history, of whom Mendelssohn is only one. I'm not prepared on that basis to assert that Saint-Saens (for instance - first piano piece composed at 3 - Mendelssohn didn't even begin taking lessons until 6, the sluggard  ) is greater than Beethoven. What's more, I think Saint-Saens, and Mendelssohn too, would have laughed at such an assertion!

[Mark]

I have no idea what on earth age has to do with the matter - the quality of the music is all that counts. There have been many astonishing prodigies in music history, of whom Mendelssohn is only one. I'm not prepared on that basis to assert that Saint-Saens (for instance - first piano piece composed at 3 - Mendelssohn didn't even begin taking lessons until 6, the sluggard  ) is greater than Beethoven. What's more, I think Saint-Saens, and Mendelssohn too, would have laughed at such an assertion!

Luke, don't take the bait. This is Saul we're dealing with. Mendelssohn was Jewish, Beethoven was German. Can there be any other outcome?

[The new erato]

Luke, don't take the bait. This is Saul we're dealing with. Mendelssohn was Jewish, Beethoven was German. Can there be any other outcome?

But then Bernstein is Jewish also. The plot thickens!

[lukeottevanger]

Luke, don't take the bait. This is Saul we're dealing with. Mendelssohn was Jewish, Beethoven was German. Can there be any other outcome?

Don't worry, I'm perfectly aware of the subtext! But who knows, maybe the absurdity does need to be pointed out.

We all know Rachmaninov (6 foot 6) was the greatest composer anyway.

[Mark]

But then Bernstein is Jewish also. The plot thickens!

Hence why Saul bothered to start this thread. If Bernstein had been a Hindu, it wouldn't have bothered Saul one iota. What riles our tiresome resident religious fanatic is that a member of his faith could possibly pick a gentile over a Jew as the world's greatest composer. Saul's persistence in this kind of spam is both tragic and wearisome. But G-d forbid that he should be banned from here - that would be anti-Semitism, naturally ...

[(poco) Sforzando]

Ah... Brahms famously had said that he would have given up all his compositions if he would had been able to write something like :


This

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=M3_Px2yXVbw

Try to bit that...

Ah... Brahms famously took 20 years to produce his first symphony because the work of Beethoven was such a mighty example to follow: "Composing a symphony is no laughing matter. You have no idea of how it feels to hear a giant's footsteps behind you!"

Try to bit that...

Or even to beat that.

[Florestan]

What else could be expected from someone whose only source of information, education and entertainment seems to be youtube?

[Saul]

Luke, don't take the bait. This is Saul we're dealing with. Mendelssohn was Jewish, Beethoven was German. Can there be any other outcome?

LOL

[Saul]

What else could be expected from someone whose only source of information, education and entertainment seems to be youtube?

Below the belt... you nerd...

You nerds have forgot that Bach and Chopin were my favorite composers before Mendelssohn. I was intreduced to Mendelssohn's music by my mother and after listening to him for a while, I decided that he is my favorite composer. If he wouldnt have been Jewish, still I would have considered him as my favorite composer. You guys are silly nerds nothing more and nothing less.

Mendelssohn's music is just as great or even greater then Beethoven, he has written mature works as a boy, and the quality, depth and greatness of his music is evident and obvious, and Im not even talking about Mendelssohn's later years mature style, works such as Elijah, violin concerto in E, piano concerto In E No. 3 among others, places him as a supirior composer then Beethoven.

I dislike Mahler's Schoenberg's music, and I think that Beethoven was so much greater then them...

How can I say this? They were Jews no?

Well, it doesnt have to do with he is Jewish and he is not Jewish...

So stop with this whole 'religion' thing....

[karlhenning]

Though Beethoven was a great composer , I am not ready to call him the greatest composer ever.
Mendelssohn's early (age 13-14) piano trios concertos and quartets contradict Bernstein's  assertion.

Well, it's no news that you would propose that Mendelssohn is somehow a greater composer than Beethoven, but that remains a niche (not to say eccentric) assertion.  For only three things, (a) Beethoven's symphonic output was broader and more consistently excellent than Mendelssohn's, (b) Beethoven's output for piano solo is generally regarded as dwarfing Mendelssohn's contribution in that field, and (c) Beethoven's cycle of string quartets is of a breadth and historical importance which Mendelssohn's comparable work does not come at all close to sharing.

Your statement regarding "Mendelssohn's early (age 13-14) piano trios concertos and quartets" does not in the least make Mendelssohn a 'greater' composer than Beethoven;  it only compares them by a narrow, and overall meaningless, yardstick -- in fact, it only demonstrates that the 13-year-old Mendelssohn composed better than the 13-year-old Beethoven did.

While it is arguable that Bernstein's remark is an admixture of musical opinion, and historical argument, it is much more defensible than your counter-assertion, Saul.

[karlhenning]

We all know Rachmaninov (6 foot 6) was the greatest composer anyway.

Bring that hammer down, Luke!

[Saul]

Well, it's no news that you would propose that Mendelssohn is somehow a greater composer than Beethoven, but that remains a niche (not to say eccentric) assertion.  For only three things, (a) Beethoven's symphonic output was broader and more consistently excellent than Mendelssohn's, (b) Beethoven's output for piano solo is generally regarded as dwarfing Mendelssohn's contribution in that field, and (c) Beethoven's cycle of string quartets is of a breadth and historical importance which Mendelssohn's comparable work does not come at all close to sharing.

Your statement regarding "Mendelssohn's early (age 13-14) piano trios concertos and quartets" does not in the least make Mendelssohn a 'greater' composer than Beethoven;  it only compares them by a narrow, and overall meaningless, yardstick -- in fact, it only demonstrates that the 13-year-old Mendelssohn composed better than the 13-year-old Beethoven did.

While it is arguable that Bernstein's remark is an admixture of musical opinion, and historical argument, it is much more defensible than your counter-assertion, Saul.

Thank you for your civil disagreement, perhaps Mark and Florestan can take lessons from you in debating.....

But nevertheless, I disagree with you.

[Florestan]

I was intreduced to Mendelssohn's music by my mother and after listening to him for a while, I decided that he is my favorite composer.

That's very nice and nobody here has any issue with that. The problem --- your problem, to be more specific --- is that you seem to have a inexhaustible need to exalt Mendelssohn to the status of the greatest composer who ever lived, by endlessly and senselessly comparing him with others who achieved more celebrated status than him. For some mysterious reason you seem not to be able to fully enjoy his music until you debase Beethoven, or Mozart or whomever happens to come under your whimsical wrath. I don't know what deep psychological forces compel you to behave like this but it's not a wealthy attitude.