Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[relm1]

So you think it is more the norm than the exception that utility horns are used? That's an extra player an orchestra has to pay for.

I think it really depends on the repertoire and the orchestral budget since it is a bit of a luxury.  The LA Philharmonic has a huge budget (I believe their 2016-17 budget was $125 million and they have 5 to 6 horns on their roster.  They are actually auditioning to have a utility horn in their roster.  You'll frequently see this player in their big works like Strauss, Mahler, Shosty, etc. but not in Mozart, Brahms, or Haydn.  Most orchestras might just hire the utility horn on an as needed basis rather than have that player in their payroll.  I played in an orchestra and contracted for them frequently and the principal horn would routinely ask for a hand on something like Mussorgsky's Pictures or Stravinsky, etc., basically the more demanding works.

I found this from the Horn society website:
Utility Horn can be called upon to play any part.  It is a title usually designated in conjunction with another title. Many players in professional orchestras have in their contract that their position is "2nd Horn and Utility Horn," or "Assistant Principal and Utility Horn." It simply means that their main duty will be the assigned part (like 2nd or Assistant), but the conductor, personnel manager, or Principal Horn can also ask the player to play any other part that is required.

[Mirror Image]

Das Lied von der Erde



Although seemingly a set of songs with orchestra, this is for all intents and purposes Mahler's ninth symphony. Das Lied represents a refinement and concentration of the means and expression of the Eighth Symphony. In Das Lied, the same contrapuntally oriented style prevails, but the thinner textures make it seem more pronounced. Also, the more intimate and personal nature of much of the writing is a direct response to the private musings of the Chinese poems rather than a major stylistic upheaval.

Das Lied is an integrated symphonic whole, as the six songs are organized into four parts analogous to symphonic movements. Mahler's harmonic and expressive language is so powerful that he was able to create a progressive effect that unite these songs into a single semantic and artistic entity.

"Das Trinklied vom Jammer der Erde" (The Drinking Song of Earth's Sorrow). The first song is a hybrid of strophic song and sonata form. It stands by itself, not only formally, but in its black, uncompromising defiance of grief in the face of mortality. The powerfully sweeping opening is contrasted with an ethereal central section, but eventually culminates in a weird and shrieking evocation of Man's fate.

"Der Einsame im Herbst" (The Lonely One in Autumn). This resigned song evokes the mists of Fall as the poet grieves over the loss of summer and life. The thin textures and wandering lines perfectly capture bitter loneliness.

"Von der Jugend" (Of Youth). This and the next two songs comprise the "scherzo" of the symphonic structure. They are all shorter, lighter in tone, and nostalgic in mood. Here, memories of young people drinking tea is captured with light and airy pentatonic lines, invoking the innocence and carefree attitude of youth.

"Von der Schönheit" (Of Beauty). A romantic scene. The gentle innocence of the girls is depicted with a delicately moving Andante. At the appearance of the horsemen there is a sudden military outburst in the orchestra, while the voice accelerates into a breathless melody, effectively portraying the maidens' fluttering hearts.

"Der Trunkene im Frühling" (The Drunk in Spring). In spite of a longing central passage, this song is mostly comic in its evocations of nature and a young man's drunken reeling. Mahler here uses an astonishing variety of harmonic and orchestral effects.

"Der Abschied" (The Farewell). There are two separate poems here. The first depicts a solitary figure waiting for a friend to come for a last farewell, the second is the farewell itself. By far the longest movement of the work, Mahler precedes each poem with a lengthy orchestral section, also making this the most instrumentally oriented movement. The first is longing and plaintive, repeated in part after the voice finally enters. The second is a long and moving funeral march, culminating in a huge and tragic climax. In the final stanza, as the poet looks back at life, Mahler composed a resigned and expansive coda.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This has become a work of immense pleasure for me. It's such a gratifying work and one that feels like no other. I'd like to research this work more in-depth, but I know I'll never gain a complete understanding of it as there's such a myriad of approaches that could be taken from it. Right now, my favorite performance is Baker/King/Haitink, but I do like several others: Ludwig/Kollo/Bernstein and Ludwig/Kollo/Karajan. I've never quite warmed to Wunderlich/Ludwig/Klemperer, which seems to still get critical acclaim. What do you guys think of the work and, of the newer performances, have there been any that have impressed you? I just bought the Spence/Connolly/Nezet-Seguin recording and have read good things about it.

[André]

I've gone to the extremes with versions by Vickers (Davis, Steinberg) and Forrester, a very plush and vibrant voice (Reiner, Walter, the same Steinberg, and Szell). It's hard to find an interpretation that encompasses all the emotions and musical marvels that Mahler wrote in the score. In a sense, it's bigger than any interpretation can possibly convey. But I don't think I'll add another version any time soon. I feel kind of saturated.

The NS disc is excellent. Some may consider it bland, I think it has a purity and chasteness that are very touching.

[PerfectWagnerite]

Das Lied von der Erde

That is a very nice picture that is often used in conjunction with Das Lied except that it is a bit anachronistic. The painting is by an artist from the Ming dynastic (ca 1500AD):

http://intelart.blogspot.com/2015/11/british-museum-china-ming-dynasty-ad.html

whereas the Chinese poems on which Das Lied is based are from the Tang Dynasty (around 700AD) so you are off by some 800 yrs.

[Spineur]

The score of the resurrection symphony will be auctioned in Hamburg on Nov 29th.

http://www.cmuse.org/original-score-from-mahlers-resurrection-symphony-exhibited-before-auction/   

[Mirror Image]

I've gone to the extremes with versions by Vickers (Davis, Steinberg) and Forrester, a very plush and vibrant voice (Reiner, Walter, the same Steinberg, and Szell). It's hard to find an interpretation that encompasses all the emotions and musical marvels that Mahler wrote in the score. In a sense, it's bigger than any interpretation can possibly convey. But I don't think I'll add another version any time soon. I feel kind of saturated.

The NS disc is excellent. Some may consider it bland, I think it has a purity and chasteness that are very touching.

Das Lied von der Erde goes through such a myriad of emotions that one or two interpretations could never be enough to get the full picture of the work. I'm looking forward to hearing the DeYoung/Villars/Oue on Reference Recordings (I received this one today) and the Connolly/Spence/Nezet-Seguin on the London Philharmonic house label.

[Turner]

Das Lied von der Erde
................ Right now, my favorite performance is Baker/King/Haitink, but I do like several others: Ludwig/Kollo/Bernstein and Ludwig/Kollo/Karajan. I've never quite warmed to Wunderlich/Ludwig/Klemperer, which seems to still get critical acclaim ............

Nice to see Bernstein/Ludwig/Kollo/IsraelPO on cbs-sony mentioned; normally I´m not a fan of that orchestra´s recordings, but it´s my favourite. Klemperer/Wunderlich/Ludwig comes second (of the 14 I´ve got), but like you, I find something somehow missing there.

[Mirror Image]

Nice to see Bernstein/Ludwig/Kollo/IsraelPO on cbs-sony mentioned; normally I´m not a fan of that orchestra´s recordings, but it´s my favourite. Klemperer/Wunderlich/Ludwig comes second (of the 14 I´ve got), but like you, I find something somehow missing there.

Yes and what's nice is the Ludwig/Kollo/Bernstein recording is now available in a cheap budget reissue now:

[asin]B004ARZJG4[/asin]

I'm glad I'm not the only one who felt that something was missing in the Ludwig/Wunderlich/Klemperer performance. I've heard some of Klemperer's other Mahler recordings in the past and I never really felt any kind of connection with the way he conducted this composer. His Beethoven, on the other hand, is top-shelf.

[knight66]

Das Lied von der Erde



Although seemingly a set of songs with orchestra, this is for all intents and purposes Mahler's ninth symphony. Das Lied represents a refinement and concentration of the means and expression of the Eighth Symphony. In Das Lied, the same contrapuntally oriented style prevails, but the thinner textures make it seem more pronounced. Also, the more intimate and personal nature of much of the writing is a direct response to the private musings of the Chinese poems rather than a major stylistic upheaval.

Das Lied is an integrated symphonic whole, as the six songs are organized into four parts analogous to symphonic movements. Mahler's harmonic and expressive language is so powerful that he was able to create a progressive effect that unite these songs into a single semantic and artistic entity.

"Das Trinklied vom Jammer der Erde" (The Drinking Song of Earth's Sorrow). The first song is a hybrid of strophic song and sonata form. It stands by itself, not only formally, but in its black, uncompromising defiance of grief in the face of mortality. The powerfully sweeping opening is contrasted with an ethereal central section, but eventually culminates in a weird and shrieking evocation of Man's fate.

"Der Einsame im Herbst" (The Lonely One in Autumn). This resigned song evokes the mists of Fall as the poet grieves over the loss of summer and life. The thin textures and wandering lines perfectly capture bitter loneliness.

"Von der Jugend" (Of Youth). This and the next two songs comprise the "scherzo" of the symphonic structure. They are all shorter, lighter in tone, and nostalgic in mood. Here, memories of young people drinking tea is captured with light and airy pentatonic lines, invoking the innocence and carefree attitude of youth.

"Von der Schönheit" (Of Beauty). A romantic scene. The gentle innocence of the girls is depicted with a delicately moving Andante. At the appearance of the horsemen there is a sudden military outburst in the orchestra, while the voice accelerates into a breathless melody, effectively portraying the maidens' fluttering hearts.

"Der Trunkene im Frühling" (The Drunk in Spring). In spite of a longing central passage, this song is mostly comic in its evocations of nature and a young man's drunken reeling. Mahler here uses an astonishing variety of harmonic and orchestral effects.

"Der Abschied" (The Farewell). ...

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

This has become a work of immense pleasure for me. It's such a gratifying work and one that feels like no other. I'd like to research this work more in-depth, but I know I'll never gain a complete understanding of it as there's such a myriad of approaches that could be taken from it. Right now, my favorite performance is Baker/King/Haitink, but I do like several others: Ludwig/Kollo/Bernstein and Ludwig/Kollo/Karajan. I've never quite warmed to Wunderlich/Ludwig/Klemperer, which seems to still get critical acclaim. What do you guys think of the work and, of the newer performances, have there been any that have impressed you? I just bought the Spence/Connolly/Nezet-Seguin recording and have read good things about it.

_{http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,683.msg749136/topicseen.html#msg749136}


Mike

[Mirror Image]

_{http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,683.msg749136/topicseen.html#msg749136}


Mike

Excellent review, Mike. Glad I made a good choice.

[Leo K.]

It took years for me to "get" the Klemperer but now it's probably my top choice. It really demonstrates the symphonic aspect of the score more than other recordings I know (and I've heard a lot!).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Mirror Image]

It took years for me to "get" the Klemperer but now it's probably my top choice. It really demonstrates the symphonic aspect of the score more than other recordings I know (and I've heard a lot!).


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Have you heard the Baker/King/Haitink performance per chance, Leo? If yes, what did you think about it?

[Leo K.]

Have you heard the Baker/King/Haitink performance per chance, Leo? If yes, what did you think about it?

It's been awhile (I must revisit this again) but it's a very beautifully balanced and solid account - again another symphonic take thanks to Haitink's rigorous battle with form, which is always fascinating and illuminating. Haitink is one of my favorite Mahler conductors next to Abbado.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Leo K.]

Have you heard the Baker/King/Haitink performance per chance, Leo? If yes, what did you think about it?

I'm revisiting this recording tonight, and wow - it's eye opening. The orchestral detail has bite. It's so amazing!

[Leo K.]

Das Lied von der Erde goes through such a myriad of emotions that one or two interpretations could never be enough to get the full picture of the work. I'm looking forward to hearing the DeYoung/Villars/Oue on Reference Recordings (I received this one today) and the Connolly/Spence/Nezet-Seguin on the London Philharmonic house label.

I haven't heard the Oue yet but I have it. The Nezet-Seguin is fantastic!

[André]

I haven't heard the Oue yet but I have it. The Nezet-Seguin is fantastic!

I'm glad you find it to your liking. I do, too. He's a hometown boy I've followed for the past 20 years, so I never know if my perception is objective  . 

I was present at a few of his recordings (Bruckner 3, 6, 9 on the ATMA label). Very peculiar experiences: no dramatic gestures, lots of eye contact, lots of "meaning" conveyed through body language. YNS is very short but has a surprisingly broad torso: his upper body conveys a lot of "animal" power. I'm pretty sure he has integrated this characteristic in his conducting.

About this Das Lied: Sarah Connolly is absolutely wonderful. She and NS obviously saw eye to eye for the Abschied. A real, close partnership. Altogether (the tenor and orchestra are important, too  ) this is a very personal and sincere Das Lied

[Mirror Image]

I haven't heard the Oue yet but I have it. The Nezet-Seguin is fantastic!

I'm revisiting this recording tonight, and wow - it's eye opening. The orchestral detail has bite. It's so amazing!

It's been awhile (I must revisit this again) but it's a very beautifully balanced and solid account - again another symphonic take thanks to Haitink's rigorous battle with form, which is always fascinating and illuminating. Haitink is one of my favorite Mahler conductors next to Abbado.

Agreed on every word. Haitink is one of my favorite Mahlerians, too. Good to hear you enjoyed the Nezet-Seguin. Can't wait to get my copy.

[Leo K.]

Have you heard the Baker/King/Haitink performance per chance, Leo? If yes, what did you think about it?

The Haitink DLvDE is so good, so powerful that I'm going to re-listen to more if not all of his original RCO cycle. Starting with the 9th. Aces!

[Mirror Image]

The Haitink DLvDE is so good, so powerful that I'm going to re-listen to more if not all of his original RCO cycle. Starting with the 9th. Aces!

Glad you enjoy Haitink's Das Lied von der Erde. It's outstanding.

[Heck148]

The reputation of his Das Lied puzzles me.  The singing is absolutely fine, but his conducting is against the score and the fact that he didn't like Mahler's music shines through his perverse take.

Reiner's DLvdE is top-notch - great playing, singing, conducting....I hear nothing perverse or "against the score" at all...