Mahler Mania, Rebooted

[Roasted Swan]

This must be the most American colloquialism 

Someone mentioned bronzing CDs on the Horenstein Mahler 3, mine are bronzed but they play fine. It's among my favorite performances. This is my other favorite performance of Mahler 3, I'm looking forward to hearing Bychkov's cycle. Maybe someone would care to comment on the 4th that has been out a few weeks now.

DO make a disc copy of your Horenstein set as soon as you can or at very least rip a WAV/lossless digital file.  Thos bronzed discs WILL fail or at least start skipping etc and probably fairly soon........

[Lisztianwagner]

I listened to the Boulez recording of Mahler's 5th Symphony and I enjoyed it very much; Boulez has a precise, full tone and a conducting style of great clearness and incisiveness that fit very well to 20th century composers, but not so perfectly to Romantic/Late Romantic composers in my opinion; but this recording surprised me in a positive way, it was better than I thought: the first two movements didn't exactly have all the passionate intensity and all the depth and richness of emotions that I expected for Mahler's music (like, for example, in the Bernstein, the Solti or the Tennstedt), the performances resulted a little dry and analytic, although they were very remarkable and they showed meticulousness in the construction of the sound structure; while the Scherzo, the Adagietto and the Rondò-Finale were very beautiful and suggestive.

[Mirror Image]

I listened to the Boulez recording of Mahler's 5th Symphony and I enjoyed it very much; Boulez has a precise, full tone and a conducting style of great clearness and incisiveness that fit very well to 20th century composers, but not so perfectly to Romantic/Late Romantic composers in my opinion; but this recording surprised me in a positive way, it was better than I thought: the first two movements didn't exactly have all the passionate intensity and all the depth and richness of emotions that I expected for Mahler's music (like, for example, in the Bernstein, the Solti or the Tennstedt), the performances resulted a little dry and analytic, although they were very remarkable and they showed meticulousness in the construction of the sound structure; while the Scherzo, the Adagietto and the Rondò-Finale were very beautiful and suggestive.

And you see, this is why I like the Boulez Mahler recordings --- they allow you to hear everything without a conductor's interference, although I think with Boulez, he probably made some textural adjustments (possibly with tempi, too) to get it closer to how he hears the music beyond the score itself. He does a remarkable job and I prefer him to the Gielen who Boulez is sometimes compared to, although I believe Gielen's recording of the 7th is just as inspired as Boulez's. One of the nice things about the Gielen Mahler series were the couplings --- Ives, Schreker and even good ol' Boulez. I'll have to revisit some of the Boulez recordings while I'm on vacation as I've been meaning to as I believe I stopped on the 4th in my last attempted run-through.

[vers la flamme]

My library is lacking in recordings of the Concertgebouw playing Mahler. Any recommendations, especially as far as individual recordings go—I'm not really trying to pick up a whole cycle right now, though I wouldn't mind getting the Chailly/RCO cycle at some point in my life if I can find it.

[DavidW]

One of the nice things about the Gielen Mahler series were the couplings --- Ives, Schreker and even good ol' Boulez.

Actually those couplings were only in the individual releases, in the box sets they were discarded.  Both of us enjoyed them, but most listeners did not and just skipped them.

I'm kind of surprised how much love everyone here has for Boulez's Mahler.  They're not bad but pretty middle of the road.  Good.  But I've heard many recordings that are more interesting.

I'm the anti-Hurwitz here because I don't enjoy Boulez's conducting that much over all, but I like some of his compositions.

[LKB]

For his live cycle on DG, Bernstein recorded with the RCO  ( or " COA ", as they were known back in the '80's when these recordings were made ) for Mahler's First, Fourth and Ninth Symphonies.

The First and Ninth can be conditionally recommended, as Bernstein takes minor liberties at times. None of these indulgences are especially damaging, but they're there and if you're a purist they might annoy you. The end of the Ninth, it should be noted, is exceedingly slow.

The Fourth is rather unusual in that it features a boy soprano for the final movement, a curious choice and not one I'm comfortable with. But the first three movements are great, so it comes down to your ability to tolerate the last movement.

Chailly's set has a strong reputation, and while Haitink has earlier sound in most cases, his latter digital Seventh is very good, my favorite in fact.

[Lisztianwagner]

My library is lacking in recordings of the Concertgebouw playing Mahler. Any recommendations, especially as far as individual recordings go—I'm not really trying to pick up a whole cycle right now, though I wouldn't mind getting the Chailly/RCO cycle at some point in my life if I can find it.

I would recommend you Jansons' recordings with the Concertgebouw Orchestra; Bernstein's DG recordings of No.1, No. 4 and NO.9 too.

[Mirror Image]

Actually those couplings were only in the individual releases, in the box sets they were discarded.  Both of us enjoyed them, but most listeners did not and just skipped them.

I'm kind of surprised how much love everyone here has for Boulez's Mahler.  They're not bad but pretty middle of the road.  Good.  But I've heard many recordings that are more interesting.

I'm the anti-Hurwitz here because I don't enjoy Boulez's conducting that much over all, but I like some of his compositions.

Yeah, I was talking about the individual releases and should've been more specific. Actually, Hurwitz isn't much of a fan of Boulez either (I think he likes his earlier recordings for Columbia, though). He practically worships Bernstein, though, and Leonard Slatkin, too, but I think this is only because they're very good friends.

[VonStupp]

My library is lacking in recordings of the Concertgebouw playing Mahler. Any recommendations, especially as far as individual recordings go—I'm not really trying to pick up a whole cycle right now, though I wouldn't mind getting the Chailly/RCO cycle at some point in my life if I can find it.

I believe Solti did at least Mahler 4 and Das Lied von der Erde with the Concertgebouw. I don't think, however, any were recommendable over what he led with London and Chicago. Perhaps misremembering too...I am well overdue for a visit with Mahler.

VS

[Lisztianwagner]

And you see, this is why I like the Boulez Mahler recordings --- they allow you to hear everything without a conductor's interference, although I think with Boulez, he probably made some textural adjustments (possibly with tempi, too) to get it closer to how he hears the music beyond the score itself. He does a remarkable job and I prefer him to the Gielen who Boulez is sometimes compared to, although I believe Gielen's recording of the 7th is just as inspired as Boulez's. One of the nice things about the Gielen Mahler series were the couplings --- Ives, Schreker and even good ol' Boulez. I'll have to revisit some of the Boulez recordings while I'm on vacation as I've been meaning to as I believe I stopped on the 4th in my last attempted run-through.

Good point, I understand what you mean; Boulez' interpretation is certainly fascinating for the timbral fullness, the clarity and the meticulousness of the sound texture (Mahler's orchestral structure is always dense and complex), but, as Mahler's music is very introspective and meditative about the world, but at the same time very personal about the composer himself, I think it can't be too cold and analytic, because otherwise it would lack in suggestive power and in what the composer wanted to evoke and describe with his works; of course, it shouldn't exceed in passion and energy either, or it would be pathetic. Not that the Boulez recording is completely lacking in intensity and powerful feelings, but it hangs on a more synthetic approach than other versions.
Same thing for his Wagner, for example, that I find terribly good, but too dry.

[Archaic Torso of Apollo]

My library is lacking in recordings of the Concertgebouw playing Mahler. Any recommendations, especially as far as individual recordings go—I'm not really trying to pick up a whole cycle right now, though I wouldn't mind getting the Chailly/RCO cycle at some point in my life if I can find it.

Haitink's early Mahler cycle with the Con'bouw contains some still classic performances - the 3rd, the 9th and Das Lied von der Erde.

I haven't heard the whole of Chailly's cycle but his 5th is my overall favorite of all 5ths ever! One of those recordings where just everything goes right.

while Haitink has earlier sound in most cases, his latter digital Seventh is very good, my favorite in fact.

Are you referring to the one recorded around 1982? That's a good one, might be hard to find nowadays.

[LKB]

Haitink's early Mahler cycle with the Con'bouw contains some still classic performances - the 3rd, the 9th and Das Lied von der Erde.

I haven't heard the whole of Chailly's cycle but his 5th is my overall favorite of all 5ths ever! One of those recordings where just everything goes right.

Are you referring to the one recorded around 1982? That's a good one, might be hard to find nowadays.

Yes, released in 1983 iirc. Arkivmusic produced it on license before they went into hiatus, but it's still available elsewhere:

https://www.amazon.com/Mahler-Symphony-7-Gustav/dp/B00000E2N9/ref=mp_s_a_1_1?crid=38JRJGFGMTX2R&keywords=Haitink+Mahler+7&qid=1658191724&sprefix=haitink+mahler+7%2Caps%2C196&sr=8-1#

[Mirror Image]

Good point, I understand what you mean; Boulez' interpretation is certainly fascinating for the timbral fullness, the clarity and the meticulousness of the sound texture (Mahler's orchestral structure is always dense and complex), but, as Mahler's music is very introspective and meditative about the world, but at the same time very personal about the composer himself, I think it can't be too cold and analytic, because otherwise it would lack in suggestive power and in what the composer wanted to evoke and describe with his works; of course, it shouldn't exceed in passion and energy either, or it would be pathetic. Not that the Boulez recording is completely lacking in intensity and powerful feelings, but it hangs on a more synthetic approach than other versions.
Same thing for his Wagner, for example, that I find terribly good, but too dry.

As it has been said before but there's more than one way to skin a cat. One of the more remarkable things about Boulez's approach is how, as we both mentioned, the scoring becomes more clear and there is music that sometimes is buried in other performances. For this reason, Haitink is another one of my favorite Mahlerians. He performs the music as it is and brings out all of the emotions that are within the work, it's just that they aren't over-the-top in their emotionalism. We have to remember that this isn't Expressionistic music, it's Late-Romantic that has a clear hindsight into the future and what was to come or, at least, in Germanic music. Anyway, it's just a different Mahler altogether and it's an approach that works for me, but I know Boulez has many detractors.

[DavidW]

Good point, I understand what you mean; Boulez' interpretation is certainly fascinating for the timbral fullness, the clarity and the meticulousness of the sound texture (Mahler's orchestral structure is always dense and complex), but, as Mahler's music is very introspective and meditative about the world, but at the same time very personal about the composer himself, I think it can't be too cold and analytic, because otherwise it would lack in suggestive power and in what the composer wanted to evoke and describe with his works; of course, it shouldn't exceed in passion and energy either, or it would be pathetic. Not that the Boulez recording is completely lacking in intensity and powerful feelings, but it hangs on a more synthetic approach than other versions.
Same thing for his Wagner, for example, that I find terribly good, but too dry.

I agree.  That is also why I love Bertini and Kubelik so much.  They deliver such balanced performances.  Neither cold nor drunk with passion.

[Lisztianwagner]

As it has been said before but there's more than one way to skin a cat. One of the more remarkable things about Boulez's approach is how, as we both mentioned, the scoring becomes more clear and there is music that sometimes is buried in other performances. For this reason, Haitink is another one of my favorite Mahlerians. He performs the music as it is and brings out all of the emotions that are within the work, it's just that they aren't over-the-top in their emotionalism. We have to remember that this isn't Expressionistic music, it's Late-Romantic that has a clear hindsight into the future and what was to come or, at least, in Germanic music. Anyway, it's just a different Mahler altogether and it's an approach that works for me, but I know Boulez has many detractors.

Of course, there's not one single way to appreciate Mahler (as well as composers in general) and that someone prefers Bernstein's intertepretation, Boulez's or another one, in any case, uns bliebe gleich die heil'ge Mahlers Kunst. 
I'll test Boulez' style with the 8th Symphony, that Schönberg considered the peak of Mahler's music. 

[aukhawk]

Haitink's early Mahler cycle with the Con'bouw contains some still classic performances - the 3rd, the 9th and Das Lied von der Erde.

I was also going to cite Haitink's first recording of M9.  Marvellous music and a superb orchestral recording - though dating from the very early '70s this was a Philips 'golden age' for recording quality, and especially in the Concertgebouw.
I think I've read, elsewhere on this site, that a recent Decca-branded remaster of these recordings has done them damage.  I don't know how true this is, but I would seek out an older Philips-branded version to be safe.

[relm1]

What do you all think of Erich Leinsdorf's Mahler?  I've only heard No. 1 with Boston I think and thought quite highly of it but don't see him frequently mentioned.

[vers la flamme]

What are y'all's favorite Mahler 10ths? For any of the completions I've only heard the Rattle/Berlin. For the adagio standalone I only have Bernstein. Really do not know this symphony well.

[VonStupp]

What are y'all's favorite Mahler 10ths? For any of the completions I've only heard the Rattle/Berlin. For the adagio standalone I only have Bernstein. Really do not know this symphony well.

Ormandy for a classic & Inbal to set beside Rattle.

VS

[Mirror Image]

Of course, there's not one single way to appreciate Mahler (as well as composers in general) and that someone prefers Bernstein's intertepretation, Boulez's or another one, in any case, uns bliebe gleich die heil'ge Mahlers Kunst. 
I'll test Boulez' style with the 8th Symphony, that Schönberg considered the peak of Mahler's music. 

Indeed and I will say that Bernstein is my favorite Mahler conductor overall or, at least, in the symphonies and song cycles, but both of his recordings of Das Lied von der Erde come up short for me. For Das Lied von der Erde, it's still difficult to best Baker/King/Haitink, but certainly there some others that come close for me like Ludwig/Wunderlich/Klemperer and the more recent Connolly/Smith/Jurowski.