Bargains...

[eyeresist]

I used to think the same until I upgraded to good playback systems.  The recordings were suddenly transformed.  After hearing period instruments live (William Christie/Les arts florissants), I concluded that period instruments were difficult to record and to reproduce well. (But I think the recording engineers were gradually getting it - try harmonia mundi or alpha recordings.)   Since I have learned to appreciate the transparency (and warmth  ) of gut strings, there has been no turning back for me: it's harpsichords for Bach, fortepianos for Beethoven, and pianofortes for Brahms!

I've been dabbling in HIP. My first effort was Norrington's Beethoven cycle (EMI), which Hurwitz was hilariously antagonistic towards, and which the Third Ear guide described as "swill"! Although the LCP is a sometimes scrappy outfit, and Norrington undoubtedly makes some eccentric choices, I think the major problem with these recordings is simply the sound. I listened to Kuijken's Haydn symphonies, and sonically the difference is like night and day - Norrington gets unnatural, "hard" sound with no sense of depth; Kuijken gets warmth, transparency and a natural-sounding soundstage.

[Brian]

I've been dabbling in HIP. My first effort was Norrington's Beethoven cycle (EMI), which Hurwitz was hilariously antagonistic towards, and which the Third Ear guide described as "swill"! Although the LCP is a sometimes scrappy outfit, and Norrington undoubtedly makes some eccentric choices, I think the major problem with these recordings is simply the sound. I listened to Kuijken's Haydn symphonies, and sonically the difference is like night and day - Norrington gets unnatural, "hard" sound with no sense of depth; Kuijken gets warmth, transparency and a natural-sounding soundstage.

This describes my experience with that Norrington set, which I purchased last week. Try his new set with the SWR Orchestra: fabulous sound complements excellent, gutsy performances (which in terms of tempo and temperament are basically the same as before, except that the eccentric choices are different).

[eyeresist]

Thanks for the advice, Brian.

[Lethevich]

This describes my experience with that Norrington set, which I purchased last week. Try his new set with the SWR Orchestra: fabulous sound complements excellent, gutsy performances (which in terms of tempo and temperament are basically the same as before, except that the eccentric choices are different).

Eek, sorry if you felt that the purchase was a waste The sound on the Norrington, while not being SOTA, I felt increased the punchy, white heat of what was a new stylistic exploration very well. While I am interested in his later takes on the works (I like his Mendelssohn 3 and 4 on Hänssler), they would probably appeal to a different side of me, rather than replace the earlier recordings.

[Harry]

I've been dabbling in HIP. My first effort was Norrington's Beethoven cycle (EMI), which Hurwitz was hilariously antagonistic towards, and which the Third Ear guide described as "swill"! Although the LCP is a sometimes scrappy outfit, and Norrington undoubtedly makes some eccentric choices, I think the major problem with these recordings is simply the sound. I listened to Kuijken's Haydn symphonies, and sonically the difference is like night and day - Norrington gets unnatural, "hard" sound with no sense of depth; Kuijken gets warmth, transparency and a natural-sounding soundstage.

I think that is entirely up to the quality of your equipment our acoustics my friend, for these recordings are made by engineers of great renown, and are not likely to deliver bad recordings. Having myself different sets at home, from very High End to normal consumers stuff, and on all of them the sound is superb.

[Harry]

This describes my experience with that Norrington set, which I purchased last week. Try his new set with the SWR Orchestra: fabulous sound complements excellent, gutsy performances (which in terms of tempo and temperament are basically the same as before, except that the eccentric choices are different).

We are talking of two entirely different approaches Brian!
To compare them sec is not fair. I heard the new recordings with the SWR and they are good, but not on period instruments. You like a modern orchestra better, I understand that, but please do not bash the EMI recordings, for I think them really very good.

[eyeresist]

I wonder.... Does Harry work for EMI? ...In some sort of audio engineering capacity?

My main complaint about the Norrington EMI set is the tonal balance which, as I said, is overly hard. This is probably due in part to a lack of natural reverb at Abbey Road, but I think there's something more to it than that, and direct comparison with Kuijken's Haydn bears me out. Tastes may differ, of course.

[FideLeo]

My main complaint about the Norrington EMI set is the tonal balance which, as I said, is overly hard.

This definitely cannot be said about his EMI Brahms symphonies, and I actually don't think his LCP Beethoven
sound is half bad, either.  The Kuijken, on the other hand, is recorded more distantly and has a softer acoustic
focus.

[mn dave]

Rubinstein's Chopin

11 CDs

Amazon.com

$25!!!

If that's not a bargain, my name is not MN Dave.  Well, on this forum anyway...

[AnthonyAthletic]

Shostakovich complete quartets (Fuga Libera), Danel Quartet were going for £5.35p last week. 

From Amazon sellers DVDLegacy.



So fantastic is this cycle I bought two (one for a friend) 

[M forever]

I wonder.... Does Harry work for EMI? ...In some sort of audio engineering capacity?

Obviously not. I don't think my good friend Harry has any engineering capacities beyond switching on his stereo set. His often repeated arguments along the lines of "DG sound engineers are the best in the business...EMI has engineers of great renown...so the recordings must sound great" are obviously nonsensical because there are plenty of bad recordings from major labels, as well as recordings which may not be bad from a technical point of view, but there are many different recording esthetics some of which are highly questionable and there were also recording esthetics trends which have gone out of fashion and now sound very dated and unnatural.

In any case, I still have to agree with Harry here. These Norrington recordings are on the whole very well engineered, with good balance and the right mix of transparency and athmosphere. Abbey Road is actually a little on the reverby side, so I don't understand your complaint at all. And yes, EMI engineers often do achieve very good results there because they are very, very familiar with the location. Which, again, does not mean all the recordings made there have to be great by default.

[Brian]

Rubinstein's Chopin

11 CDs

Amazon.com

$25!!!

If that's not a bargain, my name is not MN Dave.  Well, on this forum anyway...

Hey, glad to see that. It was $30 before and I've been wondering if the price would go down.  Thank you sir!

By the way, I think Harry is self-employed or owns his own firm.

[mn dave]

By the way, I think Harry is self-employed or owns his own firm.

I have sent my resume to Harry. I mean, he must need help ordering all that music.  0:)

[Opus106]

Brahms
Solo Piano Works 5CDs
Peter Rosel
$19.98

Takes time to ship though

http://www.amazon.com/Johannes-Brahms-Piano-Works/dp/B0006TROEK/ref=wl_itt_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2NA5VUJRO9VCP&colid=I7682ALB5LG2

[mn dave]

Brahms
Solo Piano Works 5CDs
Peter Rosel
$19.98

Takes time to ship though

http://www.amazon.com/Johannes-Brahms-Piano-Works/dp/B0006TROEK/ref=wl_itt_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2NA5VUJRO9VCP&colid=I7682ALB5LG2

What have you heard about that?

[Brian]

Brahms
Solo Piano Works 5CDs
Peter Rosel
$19.98

Takes time to ship though

http://www.amazon.com/Johannes-Brahms-Piano-Works/dp/B0006TROEK/ref=wl_itt_dp?ie=UTF8&coliid=I2NA5VUJRO9VCP&colid=I7682ALB5LG2

ClassicsToday gives it a 9/8:

    Dating from 1974/75, Peter Rösel's Brahms recordings first appeared on the former East German Eterna label and were released on CD a few decades later in the West via Berlin Classics. Hopefully this space-saving reissue will help attract many listeners to what I consider the most consistently satisfying Brahms cycle on disc from a single pianist (the contents encompass all the original solo piano compositions with opus numbers, but no transcriptions or arrangements). Highlights include a Third sonata played with extraordinary sweep, judicious poetry, and cohesion, a rhythmically vivacious and refreshingly light-fingered First sonata, a Paganini Variations that bristles with character and impressive technical finish, and virile Op. 79 Rhapsodies. In the small pieces making up Op. 76 and Op. 116-119, Rösel allows the music's polyphonic rigor to be heard without sacrificing one iota of lyrical tenderness (Op. 118 No. 2 and Op. 119 No. 1, for instance).

    Only a few selections fall below Rösel's general level of excellence. I would have expected the Handel Variations to gain momentum with more dramatic fervor and dynamic contrast than Rösel provides, despite his seamless tempo relationships. And his brisk accounts of the first and fourth Op. 10 Ballades will strike many listeners as too unorthodox and unyielding. These are minor quibbles, of course, and it goes without saying that Rösel's formidable technique transcends Brahms' often unwieldy keyboard writing. The sound is fine if a bit airless and dynamically constricted by today's standards. In sum, this is a first-class Brahms cycle from one of the most underrated pianists in the business.

    --Jed Distler

[Opus106]

Yes, what Brian said.

[Harry]

I have sent my resume to Harry. I mean, he must need help ordering all that music.  0:)