Schubert's 9th Symphony - Recordings that you like

[Gurn Blanston]

OK, I have been convinced; I have ordered the Sinopoli. This is a work I know fairly well in a superficial sense; but I have never been very enthusiastic about it. I used to own the Solti version. I thought it was OK, but rather business like. I have the complete symphonies with Harnoncourt. I really ought not to buy these boxes as I don't concentrate properly on them. I have only really listened to about half the discs. But the 9th was the first one I listened to and I enjoyed it, especially the feeling of organic music making. Whereas with Solti, (who I like in a number of works), I felt he was playing the score, with Harnoncourt, I got the feeling he was making music, experimenting more with textures and exploring the music rather than playing through. I am not sure about the acoustic though; it sounds like a big boomy space. Nice for that initial horncall, but then too much reverberation for me.

So, I will wait for the Sinopoli and hope it has that cumulative effect suggested. In its unshowy way the 9th is really quite epic.

Mike

Mike, I don't think you will be disappointed at all. If you already like the music (and it seems you do), this recording shows you more of it than any other I've heard. And as I mentioned earlier, the tempi are IMO perfect throughout, which is always my personal #1. Both my other Dresdens are very good, this one surpasses them!




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Listening to:
Cleveland Orchestra/Dohnanyi - Op 125 Symphony #9 in d 4th mvmt - Presto - Allegro assai / Recitative - Allegro assai

[Gurn Blanston]

Schubert's 9th can be a favourite?

Can it not? While it isn't MY favorite, I hold it in very high esteem, and I can see it being a favorite of anyone who really appreciates transitional music, since it is so nicely on the cusp of the Classico-Romantic repertoire. Certainly the composers of the Romantic Era thought it was great, witness how Bruckner spent his life trying to recreate it...



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Listening to:
Cleveland Orchestra/Dohnanyi - Op 125 Symphony #9 in d 4th mvmt - Presto - Allegro assai / Recitative - Allegro assai

[MN Dave]

It is considered a masterpiece, so yes, it can be a favorite.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Can it not? While it isn't MY favorite, I hold it in very high esteem, and I can see it being a favorite of anyone who really appreciates transitional music, since it is so nicely on the cusp of the Classico-Romantic repertoire. Certainly the composers of the Romantic Era thought it was great, witness how Bruckner spent his life trying to recreate it...

I think Bruckner was more obsessed by (the first movement of) Beethoven's Ninth, than anything by Schubert...

[Gurn Blanston]

I think Bruckner was more obsessed by (the first movement of) Beethoven's Ninth, than anything by Schubert...

Well, we are ALL obsessed by the first movement of Beethoven's 9th, so that doesn't count.

When I first was preparing for this thread with some intensive listening, I had just finished listening to Bruckner 4 and 5 while at work that day. Then came home and listened to 4 different versions of Schubert 9 that evening. And was suddenly onto the idea that this symphony bore a significant antecedent relationship to the Bruckner. Looking at the historical time frames, it is impossible that Bruckner wasn't very familiar with this work (Schubert was a huge hit in Vienna from the mid-40's to turn of the century). I don't know Bruckner's personal history very well (after my time, don't you know), but if someone knowledgeable in such things said that Schubert was a large influence on Bruckner, I wouldn't be surprised in the least.   (and I DID append a wink at the end of that statement anyway, just in case)






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Listening to:
L'Archibudelli - Beethoven - Bia 161 WoO 32 Duet in Eb for Viola & Cello ('With two eyeglasses obbligato')(Duett mit zwei obligaten Augengläsern) 1st mvmt - [Allegro]

[knight66]

Baby....you really are ace at covering your ass!

Mike

[Gurn Blanston]

Baby....you really are ace at covering your ass!

Mike

Damn straight!



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Listening to: L'Archibudelli - Bia WoO Quintet in A for Strings 1st mvmt - Adagio sostenuto - Presto (arr from Kreutzer Sonata by unk.)

[Renfield]

I only know two Karajans (BPO EMI and DG). Where's the third one from ?

EMI, with the VPO. I didn't know it existed myself, before I bought that box set.

[Dancing Divertimentian]

...I can see it being a favorite of anyone who really appreciates transitional music, since it is so nicely on the cusp of the Classico-Romantic repertoire. Certainly the composers of the Romantic Era thought it was great...

Schumann adored the work. If memory serves he's the one responsible for introducing it to the generation after Schubert - and hence the wider world.

It's also the very work that inspired Schumann's famous phrase, "Heavenly length". In context this was meant more as a compliment than a detriment.

[Lilas Pastia]

There's no denying that Schubert was a big influence on Bruckner. But that's like saying Brahms was a great influence on Dvorak. It's more in the very innards of the music (harmonic, rythmic, melodic) than in any superficial structural resemblance. This is especially noticeable in the middle movements : the way the slow ones develop organically "from the bottom up", as if detailed, complex scene painting was a necessary condition for the themes to emerge and flourish. The way the rythms adopt a lumpish gait with strong accents in the scherzos, and much sunny, lazy lyricism in the trios. Nowhere are these influences more marked than in the 9th symphony (Schubert's). Bruckner's symphonies 0, 3, 4, 6 and 7  (and the scherzo of 8 and 9) are instances in point. IMHO of course

Beethoven's Ode to Joy movement may well be the most obvious influence on Bruckner's symphonic constructions (outer movements). The resemblance is as obvious as it is non significant - as when Brahms was told the main theme from his 1st symphony's finale seemed copied on Beethoven's 9th. Brahms' tart reply ("any ass can see that") pointed to the obvious. Brahms was very much his own man, and any previous influence was fully absorbed and digested. Despite his chronic insecurity, I think the same can be said of Bruckner's works.

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

Well, we are ALL obsessed by the first movement of Beethoven's 9th, so that doesn't count.

When I first was preparing for this thread with some intensive listening, I had just finished listening to Bruckner 4 and 5 while at work that day. Then came home and listened to 4 different versions of Schubert 9 that evening. And was suddenly onto the idea that this symphony bore a significant antecedent relationship to the Bruckner. Looking at the historical time frames, it is impossible that Bruckner wasn't very familiar with this work (Schubert was a huge hit in Vienna from the mid-40's to turn of the century). I don't know Bruckner's personal history very well (after my time, don't you know), but if someone knowledgeable in such things said that Schubert was a large influence on Bruckner, I wouldn't be surprised in the least.   (and I DID append a wink at the end of that statement anyway, just in case)

The man with the saving wink... 

But of course, I agree with you that Schubert is there in Bruckner. But I wonder if that's not simply because he is Austrian too. I once read how symphonists like Schubert, Bruckner and Mahler are all less preoccupied with using musical time in a predominantly 'dramatic' way (like Beethoven), but more 'epic'. That's why the canvas is broad, and the lengths can become 'heavenly'. The writer called this an Austrian trait. And it's a thing you can also find in Austrian novelists (Stifter, Broch, Musil, Doderer...)

[Dancing Divertimentian]

I don't know Bruckner's personal history very well (after my time, don't you know), but if someone knowledgeable in such things said that Schubert was a large influence on Bruckner, I wouldn't be surprised in the least.  

Larry Rinkel touched on this a while ago. But nothing in depth:

As for Bruckner, I think it's reasonable to say that he learned some of his expansive, leisurely style from Schubert's instrumental works.

[Gurn Blanston]

Schumann adored the work. If memory serves he's the one responsible for introducing it to the generation after Schubert - and hence the wider world.

It's also the very work that inspired Schumann's famous phrase, "Heavenly length". In context this was meant more as a compliment than a detriment.

Yes, Schumann saw the autograph manuscript which was left with Schubert's friend, Anselm Hüttenbrenner (who wrote a lovely Requiem, BTW). He immediately wrote to Mendelssohn-Bartholdy about it, and Felix fixed up a version to premiere at the Gewandhaus. For all practical purposes, Schumann "discovered" Schubert, doing more by far than any other single person to get Schubert's works before the public.



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Listening to:
Brahms String Sextets - L'Archibudelli - Brahms Sextet #1 in Bb for Strings Op 18 1st mvmt

[Gurn Blanston]

Lilas, Donwyn, Jezetha,
Thank you all for your comments on that topic. You have given me a POV to work from. Of course I knew it wasn't a direct, overall stylistic pirating, it is just the overall effect, the way the thematic developments are conceived, that brings out a sense of kinship between these 2 composers. And of course, that "heavenly length" thing...



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Listening to:
Brahms String Sextets - L'Archibudelli - Brahms Sextet #1 in Bb for Strings Op 18 1st mvmt

[MN Dave]

That's why the canvas is broad, and the lengths can become 'heavenly'.

That's one word for it.

[bhodges]

Just wondering if anyone is familiar with this Schubert 9th recording, with van Beinum and the Concertgebouw, coupled with Britten's "Four Sea Interludes" from Peter Grimes.  I suspect the sound is not great, but the few reviews I've seen have been positive. 

--Bruce

[knight66]

The Sinopoli has arrived and it is terrific. It gets me excited about this piece; which hitherto has never grabbed me. A lovely warm acoustic, beautiful sounds coming out of my speakers. Above all, adrenalin at the right moments, combined with spells of relaxed, loving music making...so I am happy.

Mike

[Holden]

Amazingly, yes.


Regarding the main topic, after my comment on how much I enjoyed the Sinopoli, I've been scavenging around my collection for other Schubert 9ths I have as part of cycles, bundled with 8ths, or just whimsically purchased.

And although it's not likely to displace the 8th with regard to my affections, I am starting to wonder how I'd failed to realise the beauty of this symphony previously; likely my vicious "Unfinished-hunting" to blame!


So the point is, incidental purchases as they might have been, I count 12 in my collection:

Munch
Kleiber (Sr.)
Fricsay
Sinopoli
3x Karajan
Bernstein
Marriner
Harnoncourt
Rattle
Fürtwangler

There's a Fricsay recording of the 9th? LP or CD?

[Renfield]

There's a Fricsay recording of the 9th? LP or CD?

CD, on Tahra. I don't know if it's still in print.

Listening to it right now. Originally, I picked it up due to figuring it wouldn't be around for much longer - being on Tahra; but it really is a splendid Schubert 9th, now that I'm going through it again (after I've properly acquainted myself with the piece)!

Edit: I forgot the orchestra! It's the Hesse Radio Symphony Orchestra; from a radio broadcast, IIRC.

[Renfield]

With apologies for the double-post, I just found a Tennstedt Schubert 9th in my collection I wasn't even aware I had.

Giving it a listen later on today...