Members who have left.

[karlhenning]

And again, having firm opinions, and discussions of differing opinion, ain't the issue.

It's Rob's place, and Rob runs it by Rob's rules.

If any lofty spirits find that limiting:  create your own place better to your liking.

[Haffner]

In defense of M - he really knew his stuff. He had had a good music education, had played in orchestras, could compare the sounds of orchestras, knew their histories. So I think he certainly was entitled to have firm opinions. Of course you could disagree, but there was no doubting his expertise and knowledge.

My opinion on this matter probably can't count for much, but besides M's Bruckner and Strauss reccomendations, I really didn't see how "knowledgeable" M was. He certainly knew alot about foreign films and history, and he had some grasp of literature. But I've read quite alot of his posts and couldn't see how most of them balanced out with his having-a-poopy-and-lonely-day posts. It's my opinion, again, but that's the way I see it and I'm sticking to it. I noticed that many posters (not you, J.) whom stuck up alot for M were younger ones whom liked to see the s@#$ get stirred up.

Ultimately, I did recognize the value of M ("entropy") in a forum like this. However, I definitely contest how wide ranging his "knowledge" actually was.

Finally, I should mention finally the original source of M's barbs against me. Earlier this year, M came to Vermont and PM'ed me, saying he'd like to hook up with me at my apartment. This was fine with me. He ended up asking to stop by on a Sunday, which for a Catholic is a Church/stay at home day/day of Obligation. This completely irked him, and from that point on he was many times insufferable and a bit pathetic.

He'll eventually read this, and it will be interesting to see his reaction to the truth.

[adamdavid80]

My two cents re: M...

From everything I'm reading here, everyone had the understanding that he could be aggressive and go out of his way to push other people's buttons.  So if I were on the receiving end of that exchange, I would take comfort in knowing that others here plainly saw who it was coming from and could judge for themselves who the aggressor in any instance is.

That being said, I didn't read the exchange with Luke, and I have no idea about back history.  I of course am aware how often Luke and Harry post, so if there's anything that can drive them off the site, a red flag is certainly due.

I liked M a lot.  I respected his perspective, he had great insight to recommendations in regards to recordings, and he could be really funny in the political sphere.  I'll miss 95% of his contributions here and I do hope he comes back.

But another poster deleted their membership bc they were greatly offended with another regulars posts, for highly personal reasons...where do you draw the line over what's merely inappropriate and inappropriate enough to ban?

[Haffner]

My two cents re: M...

From everything I'm reading here, everyone had the understanding that he could be aggressive and go out of his way to push other people's buttons.  So if I were on the receiving end of that exchange, I would take comfort in knowing that others here plainly saw who it was coming from and could judge for themselves who the aggressor in any instance is.

That being said, I didn't read the exchange with Luke, and I have no idea about back history.  I of course am aware how often Luke and Harry post, so if there's anything that can drive them off the site, a red flag is certainly due.

I liked M a lot.  I respected his perspective, he had great insight to recommendations in regards to recordings, and he could be really funny in the political sphere.  I'll miss 95% of his contributions here and I do hope he comes back.

But another poster deleted their membership bc they were greatly offended with another regulars posts, for highly personal reasons...where do you draw the line over what's merely inappropriate and inappropriate enough to ban?

You have several valid points, and the Mike Tyson signature may provide further, ironic insight as to your opinion.

[Solitary Wanderer]

I always found M's insistence on referring to himself in the third person as somewhat curious 

[Gurn Blanston]

I always found M's insistence on referring to himself in the third person as somewhat curious 

Well, Gurn found that rather quaint and charming.



----------------
Listening to:
Cordaria / Walter Reiter - RV 027 Sonata in g for Violin Op 2 #1 - Prelude - Giga - Sarabanda - Corrente

[adamdavid80]

Using a thesaurus has nothing to do with qualifications. By the way, what 'qualifies' someone to give an opinion on a recording?

I can totally imagine a day I'll regret having put this in print...but you, J, are far more qualified than me to discuss the qualities of a classical piece.  You have more insight into theory, approach, interpretation, etc.  Yes, neophytes can have an opinion, but I would sooner take experience and understanding as well as judgement and taste as criteria.........

..........for my politics as well as my music.    

[Kullervo]

Well, Gurn found that rather quaint and charming.

I think Sidney Grew (who has recently made an appearance, hip-hip hooray ) would agree.

[Haffner]

I can totally imagine a day I'll regret having put this in print...but you, J, are far more qualified than me to discuss the qualities of a classical piece.  You have more insight into theory, approach, interpretation, etc.  Yes, neophytes can have an opinion, but I would sooner take experience and understanding as well as judgement and taste as criteria.........

..........for my politics as well as my music.    

This is a very good point, but I've studied quite a bit on music myself and still  find the more "emotional" posts to be the real reason why I go on this forum. I think that people do far too few of them. To share feelings on a certain piece of music...that's how you really connect, on a far more profound level than "oh dear, I think the cello player failed to play behind the beat on that lead into d-flat minor. OOOO! The pain!". Not saying M said much like that, but music for me is WAY more feeling and expression than anything academic. Maybe that's why I gravitate much more toward Wagner than Bach.

I feel like too much "studied" analysis is fake, silly, and ungratifying. The snob quotient is one of the primary reasons Our Music is dying.

Again, this is only opinion.

[Dundonnell]

I think Sidney Grew (who has recently made an appearance, hip-hip hooray ) would agree.

No, no, no ourrrrrrrr namesssssssss issssssss Sydney not 'Sidney'

[Haffner]

No, no, no ourrrrrrrr namesssssssss issssssss Sydney not 'Sidney'

Sydney the Serpentine!

[adamdavid80]

This is a very good point, but I've studied quite a bit on music myself and still  find the more "emotional" posts to be the real reason why I go on this forum. I think that people do far too few of them. To share feelings on a certain piece of music...that's how you really connect, on a far more profound level than "oh dear, I think the cello player failed to play behind the beat on that lead into d-flat minor. OOOO! The pain!". Not saying M said much like that, but music for me is WAY more feeling and expression than anything academic. Maybe that's why I gravitate much more toward Wagner than Bach.

I feel like too much "studied" analysis is fake, silly, and ungratifying. The snob quotient is one of the primary reasons Our Music is dying.

Again, this is only opinion.

Good points, all.  

In part, I'm speaking of friends who are not classical fans, and think it all sounds the same.  It's a music that does require multiple listenings.  When I first began to "get" the Mozart PC's, it was exhilirating.  It was like tasting a new food that previously seemed bitter on the pallete, and suddenly my tastes had "matured" and all these complex elements in this exotic food were...delicious.  And, btw, now that i've got some time within the classical repertoire, and can appreciate more a change to a minor key, or how a basset clarient differs in color to modern one...it's exciting and reinvigorating.  

That being said, my reaction to music - bc I have very limited training in theory, don't study an instrument, etc - is much more emotional.  I'm not won over by fantastically complex musicianship half as much as the listening experience in and of itself (work based off the 12 tone scale so far still sounds like intellectual clever "exercises" than anything that truly resonates).  But an appreciation for a work can only be deepened the greater the level the understanding of what the composer/performer was intending.

[Haffner]

Good points, all.  

In part, I'm speaking of friends who are not classical fans, and think it all sounds the same.  It's a music that does require multiple listenings.  When I first began to "get" the Mozart PC's, it was exhilirating.  It was like tasting a new food that previously seemed bitter on the pallete, and suddenly my tastes had "matured" and all these complex elements in this exotic food were...delicious.  And, btw, now that i've got some time within the classical repertoire, and can appreciate more a change to a minor key, or how a basset clarient differs in color to modern one...it's exciting and reinvigorating.  

That being said, my reaction to music - bc I have very limited training in theory, don't study an instrument, etc - is much more emotional.  I'm not won over by fantastically complex musicianship half as much as the listening experience in and of itself (work based off the 12 tone scale so far still sounds like intellectual clever "exercises" than anything that truly resonates).  But an appreciation for a work can only be deepened the greater the level the understanding of what the composer/performer was intending.

Excellent writing. I had a very similar path as yours, and studying/learning to read scores makes the experience more intense alot of the time. Try opus 132 with a score, or book of analysis, then try alone. There are similarities and differences to the experience, each time.

[adamdavid80]

Well, Gurn found that rather quaint and charming.



----------------
Listening to:
Cordaria / Walter Reiter - RV 027 Sonata in g for Violin Op 2 #1 - Prelude - Giga - Sarabanda - Corrente

Hmmmmm...makes you wonderrrrrr....both gurn and M share this affectation....and i've never seen them in the same place at the same time.....OMG!!!   Could Gurn and M be one and the same...?      

[Joe_Campbell]

I can totally imagine a day I'll regret having put this in print...but you, J, are far more qualified than me to discuss the qualities of a classical piece.  You have more insight into theory, approach, interpretation, etc.  Yes, neophytes can have an opinion, but I would sooner take experience and understanding as well as judgement and taste as criteria.........

..........for my politics as well as my music.    

Thanks...I think.

[Gurn Blanston]

Hmmmmm...makes you wonderrrrrr....both gurn and M share this affectation....and i've never seen them in the same place at the same time.....OMG!!!   Could Gurn and M be one and the same...?      

Oops, busted!





----------------
Listening to:
Cordaria / Walter Reiter - RV 036 Sonata in b for Violin Op 2 #5 - Prelude - Corrente - Giga

[Kullervo]

No, no, no ourrrrrrrr namesssssssss issssssss Sydney not 'Sidney'

We dursn't like the Shostakoviches, mean Shostakoviches, we hates it!

[Brünnhilde forever]

Go ahead and get everthing off your chest about Michael, but there is a soft spot in his heart. In the what are you eating thread, SonicMan described a venison meal he had in a restaurant and added two pictures of a buffalo and stag. Michael reprinted the stag photo and added: [quoting from memory]

"You ate Bambi's Daddy!"

[Dancing Divertimentian]

What's amazing here is that even without his name being mentioned, Harry has managed to turn all the attention to himself and to get the same people, once again, to come and support him for some imagined hurt. Do you people ever learn? Seriously, look at past performance, the contradiction has already been pointed out: there's no way in hell he's going to stop posting about this stuff, it's just another ploy to get support. Amazing.

I've said several times before that I could not care less whether Harry continues to post or not. I wasn't even thinking aobut him while writing above. The only thing I will say about this is that I would take M's company any day over Harry's as at the very least you get sincerity from the first and not this monstrous manipulation from the second, and the only reason I say that here is because Florestan, foolishly and pointlessly, decided to write something of the same vein above. Again it's amazing that in order for people to prop up Harry they have to put down someone else -- in this case M. Some of you people really need to get out more, loosen up, gamble a little, do something exciting in your lives, because this is pathetic.

Tony, err...no.

Let me explain. This is a totally natural sequence of events. Harry has many friends on this board - including me. The sight of him being slammed without just cause is bound to incite action. That's what friends do. It's the natural order of things!

There's nothing more going on here. In the real world friends act similarly. That's why they're called friends!!

So there's no need to make this into more than it is. 

I ask you this point blank: What did Harry ever do to M? What did Harry ever do to YOU??

If Harry's not perfect in your eyes, big deal!!! You're not perfect, either. Nor I. But trying to mold someone else into one's OWN idea of perfection is an exercise in futility. Not gonna happen. EVER!!! When you get married you'll learn this!

But Harry isn't doing anything here so garish he must be burned at the stake! Like I said, if he has a fault in your eyes, fine. But from my vantage point I don't see that there's really anything to get so worked up about! You seem to be whipping yourself into a frenzy when there's nothing of danger anywhere around!!

Hence that "mountain out of a molehill" cliché comes to mind!

Anyway, given our history I think you know that if YOU were under sniper fire from someone on the board I'd be first in line to support you. That's what friends are for, right?

But, really, this Harry nitpicking of yours is really not worth the sweat.

[mn dave]

Must be some kind of big Harry deal.