What does Beethoven's 9th symphony mean to you?

[Xenophanes]

Since we are singing in Beethoven's 9th on Saturday, May 12, it has struck all of us that the choral parts lie pretty high a lot of the time.  Mind you, the choral parts only add up to 10 or 12 minutes or so, depending on the tempo, but they are high. It's not easy. My colleagues in the bass section have complained about all the high E and F notes (I can do them fine, myself, and wouldn't miss doing it for the world) and some of our sopranos have defected to the altos or simply dropped out. The poor sopranos have to hold a high A for pages!

Well, as to the meaning of the mighty Ninth, I have long thought about such themes struggle and triumph over difficulties, the brotherhood and sisterhood of all human kind, and joy in freedom before God.

I have some some sympathy with the legend, adopted by Bernstein in a famous performance, which says Schiller would have preferred Freiheit instead of Freude, but feared censorship. In any case, it's a marvelous work. Richard Freed relates the legend in some program notes.

http://www.kennedy-center.org/calendar/index.cfm?fuseaction=composition&composition_id=2761

There's an interesting article in Wikipedia:

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Symphony_No._9_(Beethoven)

And, here's a link to the original text by Schiller:

http://www.raptusassociation.org/ode1785.html

[jochanaan]

Since we are singing in Beethoven's 9th on Saturday, May 12, it has struck all of us that the choral parts lie pretty high a lot of the time.  Mind you, the choral parts only add up to 10 or 12 minutes or so, depending on the tempo, but they are high. It's not easy...

Indeed not.  I've sometimes thought that the chorus almost has to be in some kind of ecstasy to sing this properly.  Or ON ecstasy!

Of course, the instrumental parts aren't easy either.  When you get done with the Ninth, you know you've played a symphony!

[karlhenning]

You know you've been through the ringer. You wonder why you've been there, but you're in no doubts that that is where you were. 

[Michel]

To me, it simply means overplayed and over-rated.

[Don]

To me, it simply means overplayed and over-rated.

That hurts.   

I consider the 9th one of the most magnificent musical creations of all time - almost in Bach's league.

[Bunny]

To me, it simply means overplayed and over-rated.

I hear this about Beethoven's 5th all the time too.  It is because they are so great that these pieces have become a part of popular culture and many have become incapable of recognizing the originality that went into them.  The Creation by Michelangelo on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel is disrespected as well by small minds that will never be capable of creating works of such seminal genius.

[Iconito]

I hear this about Beethoven's 5th all the time too.  It is because they are so great that these pieces have become a part of popular culture and many have become incapable of recognizing the originality that went into them.  The Creation by Michelangelo on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel is disrespected as well by small minds that will never be capable of creating works of such seminal genius.

GO BUNNY !!!

[Bunny]

GO BUNNY !!!

Killer bunny strikes again?

[cx]

I consider the 9th one of the most magnificent musical creations of all time - almost in Bach's league.

For me, it is the work that introduced me to the world of Classical music and remains one of my favorite symphonies. That's all. 

[Steve]

I hear this about Beethoven's 5th all the time too.  It is because they are so great that these pieces have become a part of popular culture and many have become incapable of recognizing the originality that went into them.  The Creation by Michelangelo on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel is disrespected as well by small minds that will never be capable of creating works of such seminal genius.

I would add the Western canon to that list.  Small minds, indeed.

[mahlertitan]

To me, it simply means overplayed and over-rated.

overplayed- i agree
over-rated- i disagree

[max]

Even the best cuisine tasted too often becomes shallow. The secret is to revert to a good hamburger breakfast for at least 3 years with tidbits like the Pomp and Circumstances marches, Hungarian Rhapsodies or suchlike. It you do this long enough who'll crave the real lobster courses in due time. 

[Michel]

Even the best cuisine tasted too often becomes shallow. The secret is to revert to a good hamburger breakfast for at least 3 years with tidbits like the Pomp and Circumstances marches, Hungarian Rhapsodies or suchlike. It you do this long enough who'll crave the real lobster courses in due time. 

But the lobster is Mahler' 9th, not Beethoven's.

[max]

But the lobster is Mahler' 9th, not Beethoven's.

...wouldn't disagree! But you forgot to add Bruckner's 9th and also I would incorporate Schubert's 9th in this triad.

[Florestan]

I hear this about Beethoven's 5th all the time too.  It is because they are so great that these pieces have become a part of popular culture and many have become incapable of recognizing the originality that went into them.  The Creation by Michelangelo on the ceiling of the Sistine Chapel is disrespected as well by small minds that will never be capable of creating works of such seminal genius.

Hear, hear!

[Michel]

Don't get me wrong, it is a great symphony, just like the 5th, and the 7th. But is categorically not, as many seem to claim, some act of genius equalled only by God's creation of the world.

People make such a song and dance of this music; it is good, but then so is lots of other stuff - it isn't the pinnacle of western achievement as many seem to claim. Not least because it shows the symphonic centricity of many of you.

And in that sense it is over-rated, and as a result, over-played.

[Florestan]

Don't get me wrong, it is a great symphony, just like the 5th, and the 7th. But is categorically not, as many seem to claim, some act of genius equalled only by God's creation of the world.

Who?

[karlhenning]

Appreciating the genuine magnificence of nearly all the Beethoven symphonies, is one thing.  (Not that folks are doing it, mind you, but) fixating upon them as The Gold Standard by which all subsequent work is evaluated, is quite another (and I speak as a Bostonian, where the name 'Beethoven' is etched into a gilded egg surmounting the stage at Symphony Hall.

So, it's a discussion which can readily chase its own tail:  Refusal to ritually bow to Beethoven will seem to some like "disrespect";  raising a permament monument to any giant of the past is to some extent, in some portion of the general consciousness, to petrify art.

Live into and enjoy this tension, folks, because it is not going away.

[Michel]

Who?

People who are inspired to start threads like this, discuss it and make absurd comments about it that are prevalent across the board. I don't pay enough attention, nor do I have enough time, to start proving my point by listing individual offenders, especially as it is hardly that contentious or inobvious.

Great point brilliantly made, Karl.

[Florestan]

I don't pay enough attention

No further questions.