Rachmaninov or Rachmaninoff?

[karlhenning]

Oh, the grand old Mijnheer of Jork, he had a thousand men . . . .

[Sarastro]

So, what's the forum convention? Do we go with "Rachmaninoff" or "Rachmaninov"?

[Lethevich]

So, what's the forum convention? Do we go with "Rachmaninoff" or "Rachmaninov"?

I think that M has already established how wrong everybody else is

[M forever]

I haven't. Rachmaninoff himself has.



I challenge other members to find a single pic of Rachmaninoff signing his name in any other way in Roman script than this or else simply accept and respect how the man chose to spell his own name.

[Sarastro]

I actually do not mind, as it is in another language; that's just a matter of searching.

[Sarastro]

That description is (begging your pardon) a little variety of quite confused.  To quote John Cleese from The Meaning of Life, "it's perfectly simple" . . . . 

1.  Normally, в is simply a voiced v sound (Bера = Vera).

2.  When it precedes a voiceless consonant, or ends a word, the в is "devoiced," and becomes an f sound (Bторник [Tuesday] = "ftornik";  разлив [flood] = "razlif").

But declining the name into different cases makes the "v" at the ending become a hard "v": Rachmaninov, Rachmaninova, Rachmaninovu, Rachmaninova, Rachmaninovym, o Rachmaninove, and the feminine form "Rachmanova," and the possessive form for both genders.
In his case there is also a special adjective that brings "f" back, just preceded by a voiceless consonant, Rachmaninoffskiy.

What bothers me more is Rachmaninoff's sounding like Rakmaninoff. It is a very hard "h," like Hvorostovsky.


PS: The dictionary says the following: 

  general   Rachmaninoff
  musical   Rachmaninov; Rakhmaninov

[Tapio Dmitriyevich]

BTW, useful site www.idiomsbykids.com

[DavidRoss]

[Sergeant Rock]

So, what's the forum convention? Do we go with "Rachmaninoff" or "Rachmaninov"?

I'm going to start using Rac(K)hmanino(ff)v

Sarge

[ChamberNut]

Exactly.

[Opus106]

BTW, useful site www.idiomsbykids.com

At least some good came from this thread.

Thanks for the link.

[M forever]

But declining the name into different cases makes the "v" at the ending become a hard "v": Rachmaninov, Rachmaninova, Rachmaninovu, Rachmaninova, Rachmaninovym, o Rachmaninove, and the feminine form "Rachmanova," and the possessive form for both genders.
In his case there is also a special adjective that brings "f" back, just preceded by a voiceless consonant, Rachmaninoffskiy.

What bothers me more is Rachmaninoff's sounding like Rakmaninoff. It is a very hard "h," like Hvorostovsky.


PS: The dictionary says the following: 

  general   Rachmaninoff
  musical   Rachmaninov; Rakhmaninov

All that is highly interesting but plays absolutely no role. In this case, the correct spelling is defined by the way Rachmaninoff himself chose to - and did consistently - spell his own name when he permanently emigrated to the West and later became an US citizen. It doesn't matter why and what form of his name he chose (namely the common French transliteration). He just did. From that point on, this spelling became the only correct from of his name.

As a parallel example - since this seem so incredibly difficult for a lot of people to get into their small heads -, my own last name is Schaffer. I currently live in the US like Rachmaninoff did in the last phase of his life. If I became an US citizen and chose to anglicize my name by dropping the C (Shaffer) - which the Americans do for me all the time anyway, even when I specifically say s-C-h-a-f-f-e-r (but in return, I often get a bonus E since SchaEfer is a much more common name) - then from that point on, Shaffer would be the only correct way to spell my name. As is the case for the many Americans with names like Fisher, Shulz, Shulman (actually sChulmanN) etcetcetc. Who would want to "correct" their names? That would be pretty idiotic.

[Sarastro]

All that is highly interesting but plays absolutely no role. In this case, the correct spelling is defined by the way Rachmaninoff himself chose to - and did consistently - spell his own name when he permanently emigrated to the West and later became an US citizen. It doesn't matter why and what form of his name he chose (namely the common French transliteration). He just did. From that point on, this spelling became the only correct from of his name.

I understand and do not mind. My last name has never been pronounced correctly even in transliteration, with constantly confused consonants around a vowel. I am more concerned about performing search. Anyway it's more useful to try both variants.

And, after all, I just replied to karlhenning's post about the pronunciation rule and referred to the dictionary. Also, the board itself thinks he is...

[karlhenning]

In this case, the correct spelling is defined by the way Rachmaninoff himself chose to - and did consistently - spell his own name when he permanently emigrated to the West and later became an US citizen. It doesn't matter why and what form of his name he chose (namely the common French transliteration). He just did. From that point on, this spelling became the only correct from of his name.

[DavidRoss]

Heard it before, eh?  I was convinced when Michael first brought it to our attention a couple of years ago and subsequently I've chosen to spell it, "Rachmaninoff."  Others I respect have a different view on the matter. 

[Sarastro]

a couple of years ago  

My sincere apologies for not being registered here a couple of years ago and being absent in June.

[Henk]

Rachmaninoff. Looks better.

[DavidRoss]

My sincere apologies for not being registered here a couple of years ago and being absent in June.

Why would you think that my response to Karl had anything to do with you?

Guess the atmosphere around here these days is making everyone rather prickly--again!

[karlhenning]

Here's a new angle!

Rachmaninoff. Looks better.

I don't think so, though.

[Henk]

Here's a new angle!

I don't think so, though.

I really think it does, in contradary to "Prokofieff", which looks awfull. "Rachmaninov" looks like he made old-fashioned, bad music .