Catharsis

[Cato]

"A few enlightening words..."       Well, here goes!

I believe the effect will vary not just (obviously) from person to person, but inside the individual: age, maturity, what might be happening to us at the moment, etc. all play a role.  A work which brings us that cathartic feeling one day might leave us just shrugging and even confused as to why the effect did not occur again.

On Aristotle and specifically musical catharsis: my vast archives are not at hand, so I cannot check the original text, but as I recall, there are a good number of problems with the Poetics.  Aristotle in fact promises at one point in the text to discuss musical catharsis when he deals with poetry, but then fails to do so.  This has led to debates across the centuries about whether the author forgot his promise, assuming that the work was written over several years; whether the text is corrupt at that point; whether the text represents a first version or a working, unfinalized book etc.

David Hume has an essay on how we can appreciate a tragedy's catharsis because we sense the perfection of the story-telling, even though the ending is not happy.  Again my copy is not at hand, and perhaps Hume says the following in it, perhaps not.  But in music, as in tragedy, the "perfection" of the story-telling (such as it is in music) must also mean that the audience knows order somehow is operating in the universe.  If Oedipus must gouge out his eyes and live out his life in remorse, we have a cathartic feeling because - although that is horrible for him - this punishment means the universe makes sense. 

To be sure, the bad guys are not always caught or punished: one thinks of Stalin, who is still today admired by too many in Russia.  He came in #2 recently, right behind Czar Nicholas II in a popularity poll.  But we do not want art necessarily to point this out, and if it does, we still need to see it as an anomaly.  In general, an evil life does come back around on you: you will be caught and punished.

For music, then, the "story" is much more vague of course, but whatever it is, if the composer's story is big enough, the catharsis will come, if we have been able to follow the plot of the story and can agree that the conclusion logically stems from all that came before.

A catharsis does not need to lead from dark to light: Tchaikovsky's Sixth and Mahler's Ninth are examples of this, with the Mahler being more gently resigned to its fate than the Tchaikovsky. 

And the catharsis can come inside of a work: as mentioned earlier, certainly the 3rd movements of the Bruckner Seventh and Eighth provide catharses which nearly sabotage the Finales, and I would say that the 3rd movement of the (technically) unfinished Ninth does sabotage the Finale, or at least what we know of it. 

Light to lighter as the route for a catharsis is also possible: Ravel's Bolero and La Valse and Nielsen's Third Symphony mentioned earlier are examples of going from light to lighter. 

Whether Aristotle would agree with such a "light" catharsis would make an interesting debate.  I suspect he would not agree, but...

So I think what we like about a catharsis is that it provides a sense of emotional order: the relief is one that says: yes, this is the way it should be, or this is the way it must be (even with exceptions), and yes, Life has at least some order, some meaning, some purpose.

An addendum to the above: an acquaintance wondered if Aristotle's missing words on specifically musical catharsis would have gone beyond music with a text.

Again, the evidence is very fragmentary: there is a total of about one hour of ancient Greek music, and just about the only music without texts are dances.  One would assume a very talented composer e.g. Mesomedes of Crete, might have created purely instrumental, or "abstract" music, but the evidence has not yet appeared.

Tristan und Isolde, even if played without any singing, would no doubt evoke a catharsis, possibly even an erotic one: is that not the main thrust of the Tristan-chord?    0:)

[marvinbrown]

Tristan und Isolde, even if played without any singing, would no doubt evoke a catharsis, possibly even an erotic one: is that not the main thrust of the Tristan-chord?    0:)

  possibly ?? I'd say undoubtedly an erotic one 0:)!

  marvin

[Cato]

  possibly ?? I'd say undoubtedly an erotic one 0:)!

  marvin

Dude: when you get to Strauss' Elektra give us your thoughts on catharsis in that opera!   

[some guy]

But Cato, I thought you just got through explainging to us that Aristotle thought of catharsis as a process that art puts the recipient through, not a quality of the work itself.

So Elektra puts itself through some strong emotions which are then purged? Or is it the characters in the opera who undergo some catharsis? What?

(Yeah, I know. I'm just bitter because no one laughed at my catheter joke. But really. I mean, BE FAIR!! I don't eat squirrels.)

[Cato]

But Cato, I thought you just got through explainging to us that Aristotle thought of catharsis as a process that art puts the recipient through, not a quality of the work itself.

So Elektra puts itself through some strong emotions which are then purged? Or is it the characters in the opera who undergo some catharsis? What?

(Yeah, I know. I'm just bitter because no one laughed at my catheter joke. But really. I mean, BE FAIR!! I don't eat squirrels.)

I knew a man once who fed squirrels McDonald's french fries, and then fed the critters the barrel of his .22.

On your main question: No, I hope that is not the basis of my explanation!  The work itself - I believe - cannot be divorced from a cathartic effect, assuming that it has one.  It is unclear to me how "art" puts a recipient through a cathartic process without a play or opera or symphony.

Your last point is interesting: does ELektra's collapse at the end signify the ultimate catharsis?  Near the end of Hofmannsthal's text Elektra says that "love can kill" and that she does not know what a person such as herself could look forward to in life now, and continues her frenzied victory dance into death, a true Totentanz.  Surely Aristotle would not see much spiritual healing or uplift here!

Purged of emotion - in this case revenge most savage against her mother for killing Agamemnon and against the stepfather both for the regicide and his (implied) raping of her - Elektra's life is forfeited, since her life is postulated as being completely and obsessively centered on hatred of and revenge against her mother and stepfather.

Strauss and Hofmannsthal would hope that both the audience and Elektra have experienced a catharsis.  Having used the opera for years in my German IV classes, I can tell you that even teenaged boys can find the work cathartic.

Other candidates for the cathartic effect: Arnold Schoenberg's Gurrelieder and especially Erwartung.

[marvinbrown]

Dude: when you get to Strauss' Elektra give us your thoughts on catharsis in that opera!   

  LOL ! Well let's see the music is dissonant and delivered with gut wrenching power.  The listener is constantly on edge, nerves stretched to the brink of being ripped to shreds, waiting in anticipation for Orestes to do his "ghastly" deed (PSYCHO Norman Bates shower scene anyone??) taken to the nth power!  And what eventually happens, Elektra dances with ecstatic joy to her death- yeah I'd say that's pretty cathartic!

  marvin

[M forever]

  I find Wagner's Tristan und Isolde the most cathartic work ever composed. 

So you actually know all the music that has ever been composed? Wow...

[Cato]

So you actually know all the music that has ever been composed? Wow...

Let us charitably assume that Mr. Brown means his admittedly hyperbolic statement to be valid within his own experience!     

[marvinbrown]

So you actually know all the music that has ever been composed? Wow...

  Not quite M but of the 60+ operas in my collection I'd say Tristan wins hands down  . A perfect marriage of a cathartic score with a cathartic libretto. Care to venture a contender?

  marvin

[PerfectWagnerite]

  Not quite M but of the 60+ operas in my collection I'd say Tristan wins hands down  . A perfect marriage of a cathartic score with a cathartic libretto. Care to venture a contender?
  marvin

I can think of two right off the top of my head: Parsifal and Korngold's The Miracle of Heliane.

[marvinbrown]

I can think of two right off the top of my head: Parsifal and Korngold's The Miracle of Heliane.

  Parsifal is indeed a contender but it lacks the "white hot" agonizing emotion of Tristan, no??  I have yet to hear Korngold's the Miracle of Helaine.

  marvin

[PerfectWagnerite]

  Parsifal is indeed a contender but it lacks the "white hot" agonizing emotion of Tristan, no?? 

  marvin

Maybe not in a sexual way, then again I never find Tristan sexual in any way either. But there are extremely powerful moments in Parsifal such as when Kundry says she saw The Savior and laughed, and when Parsifal rejects her and tells her basically if she wants to repent she knows where to find him.

[Anne]

I think when the protagonist's downfall comes as a result of a defect in his character, that we have the most intense catharsis.

Just a comment on Wagner in this discussion.  IMHO his protagonist's downfall is brought about by a potion (e.g. Tristan und Isolde) rather than a defect in the protagonist's character.  This makes the impact of the drama not as strong as it might be.

[scarpia]

But there are extremely powerful moments in Parsifal such as when Kundry says she saw The Savior and laughed, and when Parsifal rejects her and tells her basically if she wants to repent she knows where to find him.

What about when he shoots the magic bird with his bow and arrow?

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I think when the protagonist's downfall comes as a result of a defect in his character, that we have the most intense catharsis.

Just a comment on Wagner in this discussion.  IMHO his protagonist's downfall is brought about by a potion (e.g. Tristan und Isolde) rather than a defect in the protagonist's character.  This makes the impact of the drama not as strong as it might be.

Good comment. You are not the only one to have voiced this criticism, Anne. The same applies to the drink of forgetfulness Siegfried gets to quaff in Götterdämmerung. Some have argued that those magic potions must be seen as psychological. The fact 1) that Tristan and Isolde drink the love potion 'by accident' is right in a psychological sense (they want it and social decorum forbids it, so the only way to unlock the gates is by something external), and that 2) Siegfried can forget Brünnhilde points to a flaw in his character, which the drink merely makes manifest.

I don't wholly agree with this. The fact that Wagner uses the crutches of magic to create tragedy (which Goethe does in Faust I, too, btw) says to me that Shakespeare's and Racine's ability (to name but two of the writers that influenced Wagner) wasn't available to Wagner - to create tragedy purely through character + story. Perhaps because he was a musician? Goethe's younger contemporary Kleist was able to do it.

Inability on Wagner's part? Historically impossible?

[karlhenning]

I think when the protagonist's downfall comes as a result of a defect in his character, that we have the most intense catharsis.

Just a comment on Wagner in this discussion.  IMHO his protagonist's downfall is brought about by a potion (e.g. Tristan und Isolde) rather than a defect in the protagonist's character.  This makes the impact of the drama not as strong as it might be.

I agree. It's the drugs talking.

Like PW, I haven't found Tristan particularly, eewwww, sexual.  I think highly of the opera (for a work I've only recently heard in its entirety), not sure I find it "white-hot agonizing," though.

Good comment. You are not the only one to have voiced this criticism, Anne. The same applies to the drink of forgetfulness Siegfried gets to quaff in Götterdämmerung. Some have argued that those magic potions must be seen as psychological. The fact 1) that Tristan and Isolde drink the love potion 'by accident' is right in a psychological sense (they want it and social decorum forbids it, so the only way to unlock the gates is by something external), and that 2) Siegfried can forget Brünnhilde points to a flaw in his character, which the drink merely makes manifest.

I don't wholly agree with this. The fact that Wagner uses the crutches of magic to create tragedy (which Goethe does in Faust I, too, btw) says to me that Shakespeare's and Racine's ability (to name but two of the writers that influenced Wagner) wasn't available to Wagner - to create tragedy purely through character + story. Perhaps because he was a musician? Goethe's younger contemporary Kleist was able to do it.

Inability on Wagner's part? Historically impossible?

Excellent post, Johan.

[Anne]

"Jezetha -  I don't wholly agree with this. The fact that Wagner uses the crutches of magic to create tragedy (which Goethe does in Faust I, too, btw) says to me that Shakespeare's and Racine's ability (to name but two of the writers that influenced Wagner) wasn't available to Wagner - to create tragedy purely through character + story. Perhaps because he was a musician? Goethe's younger contemporary Kleist was able to do it.

Inability on Wagner's part? Historically impossible?"

I don't know.  The ancient Greeks did it.  With Wagner's musical abilities, can you imagine the effect of the opera if he had used character + story!!!!!

[PerfectWagnerite]

What about when he shoots the magic bird with his bow and arrow?

You mean Parsifal shooting a swan in Act I I presume. You never actually SEE him shooting it. You just hear the knights hollering that someone committed an egregious crime and arrested him promptly. So not seeing the actual shooting you could not have derived much glee from the fact.

[Anne]

Thanks, Jezetha.
Good comment. You are not the only one to have voiced this criticism, Anne

[J.Z. Herrenberg]

I don't know.  The ancient Greeks did it.  With Wagner's musical abilities, can you imagine the effect of the opera if he had used character + story!!!!!

Anne, even genius can't do anything at a given time. Wagner would dearly have liked to have rivalled Aeschylus and Sophocles in tragic grandeur - but he doesn't completely succeed, imo. Great art is always - historical possibilities meeting a creative mind of the first order. Wagner wanted, by his art, to create a new sense of national and spiritual identity. His model was Greek tragedy.

The problem with this is: Greek tragedy arose precisely out of the thing he was aiming at - a homogenous community where the stories that were played out before the audience were all well-known. Not so with Wagner - his mythological Nibelungen story, for instance, wasn't in the subconscious of his middle-class audience. Wagner wanted, as an individual, to achieve what can only be achieved by a collective. Impossible. And remember - for Greek audiences the performance of a tragedy wasn't the same as enjoying art. It was a religious rite (certainly with Aeschylus, who is the theologian, the Bach of the three Greek tragedians). They weren't sitting there, after having paid for admission, consuming an artistic product...

You should read George Steiner's Death of Tragedy... Very interesting.

Johan