Topic: Luigi Dallapiccola

[karlhenning]

No contest - his Lyriche Greche, which is made up of three smaller groups of settings of ancient Greek poetry. Utterly superb, and by the by possibly the single best advertisment for the 12 tone technique (without Bergian tonal references to muddy the waters  ). It's a cliche, but Dallapiccola like some of his Italian contemporaries had a true lyric gift, and in these exquisite, delicate songs it's evident in abundance. One of the most striking of these songs is about a seashell, and like a seashell all the songs are delicate, irridescent - and yet incredibly strong, because of Dallapiccola's intensely contrapuntal writing.*  As the cycle progresses the strongly contrapuntal nature of the songs becomes more and more apparent, and instead of being named after their tempi, they become 'Canoni', 'Variazione', 'Canon perpetuus', 'Canones diversi', 'Canon contrario motu' and so on. All very consciously Bachian, specifically very Musical Offering-y - and of course Dallapiccola has his own Musical Offering in the gorgeous Quaderno Musicale per Annalibera - but the Mediterranean warmth of the sound isn't Bachian!

One of the most beautiful experiences of my life was sitting in a cold, grey lecture room at Cambridge listening to Hugh Wood talk about Dallapiccola's life, and then put on an LP of these songs. It had me spellbound. Later, I found the score in the college music library - the strong canonic threads of the music were clearly there to see, but so was the delicacy. One of my favourite, touchstone 20th century works without a doubt, as you can see!

*This combination of vulnerablity and contrapuntal strength reminds me of late Brahms, such as op 119/1, which I think is the one Clara Schumann (no, maybe it was Brahms himself) described as a 'grey pearl', which brings us back to things marine and nacreous!.

TTT, because this is such an evocative post.

[karlhenning]

Did we know of this imminent Chandos release?

[karlhenning]

(Well, Jens knew, I see . . . .)

[Mirror Image]

Is it fair to say that Dallapiccola is like an Italian version of Berg? I know both composers are quite different, but it seems that he took the model of Berg, which encompasses lyrical beauty, and ran with it.

[snyprrr]

Is it far to say that Dallapiccola is like an Italian version of Berg? I know both composers are quite different, but it seems that he took the model of Berg, which encompasses lyrical beauty, and ran with it.

But,... he's Italian!! Aren't they known for their melodies?

I was just listening to the Question/Answer piece: it's the most granite facade of any music I know, but, at the same time, not brutal,... it is as if depicting ancient ruins,... I'd say it sounds a little like something Late Late Chavez might sound like, if he wrote more ancient sounding stuff.

I also have the Chamber Music disc on Stradivarius, which seems to lean more of in an 'Advanced Malipiero' sound, to my experience.

As to the vocal stuff,... isn't that more like Serial Stravinsky?

[Mirror Image]

But,... he's Italian!! Aren't they known for their melodies?

I was just listening to the Question/Answer piece: it's the most granite facade of any music I know, but, at the same time, not brutal,... it is as if depicting ancient ruins,... I'd say it sounds a little like something Late Late Chavez might sound like, if he wrote more ancient sounding stuff.

I also have the Chamber Music disc on Stradivarius, which seems to lean more of in an 'Advanced Malipiero' sound, to my experience.

As to the vocal stuff,... isn't that more like Serial Stravinsky?

Not all Italian composers cared about expressing melody. You should know this. I mean look at Nono or Berio. Do you think they sat down trying to create a beautiful melody or even had one in mind?

[snyprrr]

Not all Italian composers cared about expressing melody. You should know this. I mean look at Nono or Berio. Do you think they sat down trying to create a beautiful melody or even had one in mind?

But,... look atta their names,... Berio,... Nono,... small, penne sized names,....

Now,... Dalla-pic-cola,... now thatsa a gooda Italian name, lika linguine,... he'sa more melodically minded,...a....

[Mirror Image]

But,... look atta their names,... Berio,... Nono,... small, penne sized names,....

Now,... Dalla-pic-cola,... now thatsa a gooda Italian name, lika linguine,... he'sa more melodically minded,...a....

Your logic never fails but to make me laugh and confuse me at the same time.

[Coco]

I've enjoyed exploring his work lately. He seems to be somewhat of a minor figure, but not a minor composer. Very elegant music.

[karlhenning]

Looking forward to the arrival of that disc which Luke recommended . . . .

[Luke]

You will not be disappointed, Karl, I can promise you that. Those Greek Lyrics are absolute jewels, tiny, perfect, delicate and yet super-strong - like late Webern in these respects and others, but gorgeously lyrical and seductively shaded in the Italian way... By their nature they are self-effacing and therefore not very well-known, but they're one of the great hidden masterpieces of the 20th century.

[Luke]

Ha - I hadn't even seen that you'd TTT-ed one of my old posts on those songs until I posted that! Makes me feel old, that I keep on saying the same things! Even the TTT-ing was two years ago 

[Luke]

As to the vocal stuff,... isn't that more like Serial Stravinsky?

If so, then really only in very specific cases - there are some similarities between some of the Dallapiccola lyrics and something like the gorgeous Surge Aquilo from the Canticum Sacrum...it's the combination of rigour with fecundity, these proliferating melismatic lines full of ancient Mediterranean, sun-filled warmth which are all nevertheless under a beautifully calm, controlling hand. Another work which falls into the same bracket, surprisingly, is the Sappho Fragments by John Taverner, in his earlier Stravinskian-serial days. That's a really beautiful work, too, showing Tavener's later sense of the seductive combined, still, with a slightly astringent harmonic palette that only increases and intenifies the beauty, IMO. No coincidence that, when Tavener rejected the bulk of post-Baroque music, he excepted from that rejection precisely such late Stravinsky pieces as the Canticum Sacrum.

[karlhenning]

Ha - I hadn't even seen that you'd TTT-ed one of my old posts on those songs until I posted that! Makes me feel old, that I keep on saying the same things!

Not old, just the good sort of consistent : )

[snyprrr]

I really like the Italians, Dallapiccola, Nono, Maderna - and I don't think this is some kind of tribal thing (I'm Sicilian) - but there's hardly any Italian composer from the 20th century that I don't enjoy.  Sciarrino, is another composer whose work thrills me.  I should revisit them all and have a kind of festival.

Metoo!!

[MDL]

I really like the Italians, Dallapiccola, Nono, Maderna - and I don't think this is some kind of tribal thing (I'm Sicilian) - but there's hardly any Italian composer from the 20th century that I don't enjoy.  Sciarrino, is another composer whose work thrills me.  I should revisit them all and have a kind of festival.

No mention of Berio?   

[klingsor]

No mention of Berio?   

Or Donatoni? or Scelsi?

The Partita by Dallapiccola is a thing of true beauty. It was played at the BBC Proms last year and it blew my mind

[karlhenning]

The Partita by Dallapiccola is a thing of true beauty. It was played at the BBC Proms last year and it blew my mind

Sweet!

[karlhenning]

Not always, to be sure . . . but there are weeks when I feel I could listen to nothing but Scelsi.

[Coco]

Hear, hear!