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The Music Room => Great Recordings and Reviews => Topic started by: MISHUGINA on December 16, 2007, 02:46:47 AM

Title: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: MISHUGINA on December 16, 2007, 02:46:47 AM
There's tons of good names: Nathan Milstein, Arthur Grimiaux, and of course Jascha Heifetz. I'll get the one with most votes hehehehe
Title: Re: No brickbats here: Best Bach violin partitas?
Post by: sunnyside_up on December 16, 2007, 03:02:21 AM
For me it's Rachel Podger.

I have only two others (Richard Tognetti and Mark Lubotski) which I never listen to these days, and I don't feel the need for anything else.

This is probably the music that I listen to more than anything else and I love it with a passion!
Title: Re: No brickbats here: Best Bach violin partitas?
Post by: Que on December 16, 2007, 03:03:42 AM
There's tons of good names: Nathan Milstein, Arthur Grumiaux, and of course Jascha Heifetz. I'll get the one with most votes hehehehe

Milstein for non-HIP and Sigiswald Kuijken-I (DHM) for HIP.

Q
Title: Re: No brickbats here: Best Bach violin partitas?
Post by: MichaelRabin on December 16, 2007, 04:20:20 AM
Grumiaux for me (despite the fact that I also have the Milstein-EMI & Heifetz)
Title: Re: No brickbats here: Best Bach violin partitas?
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on December 16, 2007, 05:47:21 AM
Grumiaux is essential IMO, but there is one other one you need: Menuhin's recordings from the 1930s.
Title: Re: No brickbats here: Best Bach violin partitas?
Post by: Don on December 16, 2007, 08:25:40 AM
I tend to favor Ingrid Matthews (baroque violin) on Centaur.
Title: Re: No brickbats here: Best Bach violin partitas?
Post by: carlos on December 16, 2007, 08:41:36 AM
Szering's recording for Odyssey-Columbia for me.
But listen to the third sonata recorded by 13 years
old Menuhin.
Title: Re: No brickbats here: Best Bach violin partitas?
Post by: Josquin des Prez on December 16, 2007, 09:43:08 AM
Milstein > all.

Actually, i'd probably like Enescu better but he was too old when he recorded this. A pity.
Title: Re: No brickbats here: Best Bach violin partitas?
Post by: lukeottevanger on December 16, 2007, 10:00:41 AM
Am I wrong to love Sergiu Luca's recording?
Title: Re: No brickbats here: Best Bach violin partitas?
Post by: Shrunk on December 16, 2007, 10:24:49 AM
Szering's recording for Odyssey-Columbia for me.

My choice, too. However, I don't think it's been issued on CD.
Title: Re: No brickbats here: Best Bach violin partitas?
Post by: carlos on December 16, 2007, 10:55:55 AM
There´s his recording on "Masterworks Portrait"
MP2K 46721. But it his posterior.
Title: Re: No brickbats here: Best Bach violin partitas?
Post by: Expresso on December 16, 2007, 01:12:02 PM

Szeryng on DG. I haven't heard his earlier recording though.

(http://img.verycd.com/posts/0606/post-440677-1149560138.jpg)
Title: Re: No brickbats here: Best Bach violin partitas?
Post by: Don on December 16, 2007, 01:42:26 PM
Am I wrong to love Sergiu Luca's recording?

Nope - an excellent choice.
Title: Re: No brickbats here: Best Bach violin partitas?
Post by: Pempslider on December 16, 2007, 04:04:24 PM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/5173S7J0NBL._AA240_.jpg)

I fill in the gaps with Szeryng & Milstein. :)
Title: Re: No brickbats here: Best Bach violin partitas?
Post by: val on December 17, 2007, 01:55:54 AM
My vote goes to Nathan Milstein.

There are others, Grumiaux, Menuhin (last version, the most touching), Perlman that have great qualities.
Title: Re: No brickbats here: Best Bach violin partitas?
Post by: Florestan on December 17, 2007, 03:34:51 AM
Grumiaux
Title: Perlman vs Kremer in Bach
Post by: snyprrr on March 12, 2009, 10:09:01 PM
i don't have any recording. Kremer has 2, and reviewers say no one plays them like him. other artists welcome too.
Title: Re: Perlman vs Kremer in Bach
Post by: Peregrine on March 12, 2009, 11:12:25 PM
Which pieces by Bach? The violin Sonatas and Partitas?
Title: Re: Perlman vs Kremer in Bach
Post by: Que on March 12, 2009, 11:18:44 PM
i don't have any recording. Kremer has 2, and reviewers say no one plays them like him. other artists welcome too.

Well, on the solo Sonatas & Partitas: Kremer plays them like Schnittke - so if that's your thing. ::)
Perlman plays them like no one else all right: yuk. :P

For proper Bach: Nathan Milstein (EMI) or Sigiswald Kuijken (DHM).

Q
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas
Post by: Peregrine on March 12, 2009, 11:28:19 PM
My current favourites are Grumiaux, Szeryng, Edinger and Zehetmair.

Still haven't bought Milstein....would also like to hear what Heifetz has done...
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas
Post by: haydnguy on March 13, 2009, 12:33:17 AM
Have Grumiaux and Milstein, and for me it's Milstein by a ways.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas
Post by: Dr. Dread on March 13, 2009, 04:27:59 AM
Have Grumiaux and Milstein, and for me it's Milstein by a ways.

Which Milstein?
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas
Post by: dirkronk on March 13, 2009, 05:19:10 AM
I still haven't heard Grumiaux, in spite of being a big fan of almost everything he's done. One day...

Meanwhile, I tend to go for Milstein-EMI, though I also have his DGG on vinyl. Earlier is better, to my ears. Same with Szeryng--I much prefer his earlier performance (Odyssey for the set, though I have a couple of partitas on a very old Odeon mono) to his later DGG, which I do also have.

Here's a few wild cards that I really enjoy from time to time: Martzy, who seldom gets mentioned on these threads; she's a bit straightforward for some tastes, but once I put her Bach on, it's like eating popcorn...I can't stop. Fulkerson on Bridge--got that one last year and found it quite refreshing after an initial spin; we'll see if I still like it when I get back around to hearing it again. And Rosand, whose Bach was brought to my attention by a friend on this forum several years back--a surprise for me, and an experience that gave me new respect for the violinist.

Alas, I have to agree that Enescu waited too late to record the works. Same IMO with Szigeti. However, both artists are so insightful in places that I keep their sets around anyway, even though I listen only on rare occasion.

Heifetz? Well, his partita #2 is incredibly beautiful and I listen to that one frequently and with great pleasure. But the one time I heard samples of his complete set, I found my attention waning...so I've never felt the call to buy it. Go figure.

FWIW,

Dirk
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas
Post by: Dr. Dread on March 13, 2009, 05:22:06 AM
I used to own Heifetz but sold it, for the reason Dirk mentions. I have the DG Milstein and enjoy it very much. Milstein said it was the better version of the two he'd done. Of course, he would, woudn't he?  ;D
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas
Post by: DFO on March 13, 2009, 05:25:11 AM
Somobody has to name young Menuhin complete version.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas
Post by: dirkronk on March 13, 2009, 05:38:38 AM
I have the DG Milstein and enjoy it very much. Milstein said it was the better version of the two he'd done. Of course, he would, woudn't he?  ;D

Always take the artist's opinion with a grain of salt. He or she isn't doing the listening...you are.

I still laugh my ass off when I remember Richter opining that his Brahms 2nd with Maazel ("meh" says I) was far better than the one with Leinsdorf/Chicago (which for me is one of THE great performances). He didn't care for any of his October 1960 Carnegie Hall performances, either, and many of those are jaw-droppers. It seems obvious that Richter had a bad time personally on his first trip to the US and I think it forever colored his opinion of the playing he did here.

Dirk
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas
Post by: Dr. Dread on March 13, 2009, 05:42:19 AM
Always take the artist's opinion with a grain of salt. He or she isn't doing the listening...you are.

Maybe I'll look into his EMI version then. Thanks.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas
Post by: dirkronk on March 13, 2009, 08:03:13 AM
Maybe I'll look into his EMI version then. Thanks.

Do try to listen, if you can, to see how you react to the young Milstein. Both recordings have their felicities to offer, of course. The approaches ARE different and I just happen to prefer the earlier one. But it's not like the DGG version is chopped liver--and if it already speaks to you, you may end up still preferring it. That's part of the fun of having different recordings to listen to--YOU get to decide.
 ;)

Dirk
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas
Post by: aquablob on March 13, 2009, 11:53:59 AM
Zehetmair

You're the only one to mention Zehetmair so far. An excellent choice in excellent sound.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas
Post by: nut-job on March 13, 2009, 12:07:17 PM
My current favourites are Grumiaux, Szeryng, Edinger and Zehetmair.

Still haven't bought Milstein....would also like to hear what Heifetz has done...

I'd say exactly the same, except I've never heard the Edinger.  Didn't like Milstein.  Podger is good.

Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas
Post by: jwinter on March 13, 2009, 12:14:38 PM
I have Milstein (EMI), Szeryng (DG), and Rachel Podger.  Milstein's the clear favorite for me, although I enjoy all three.  I'm pretty satisfied with those, although I may try Hahn's one of these days if I see it cheaply enough.
Title: Re: No brickbats here: Best Bach violin partitas?
Post by: Sorin Eushayson on March 13, 2009, 02:05:48 PM
Sigiswald Kuijken-I (DHM) for HIP.

Yes yes yes!  Kuijken does magnificently.  I cannot give an in-depth comparison-and-contrast review of the various 'Sonatas & Partitas' recordings floating about, but he does so well that I can safely recommend him...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51b1FzOJfDL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Sonatas-Partitas-BWV-1001-1006/dp/B000026ND9/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1236981899&sr=1-1)

Not only are these performed wonderfully, but his violin sounds so good it'll melt your ears clean off!  :o  ;D
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas
Post by: Coopmv on March 13, 2009, 08:58:28 PM
For Bach, I prefer Grumiaux and Szeryng from the older generation while Mullova and Standage are my favorites from the somewhat younger generation.  From the much younger generation, Fischer clearly stands out ... 
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas
Post by: haydnguy on March 14, 2009, 04:09:15 AM
Which Milstein?

The EMI version(s).
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas
Post by: (: premont :) on March 14, 2009, 04:58:49 AM
For Bach, I prefer ..while Mullova and Standage are my favorites from the somewhat younger generation. 

Standage?? He has not to my knowledge recorded these works. And Mullova hasn´t recorded but the Partitas
Title: Re: No brickbats here: Best Bach violin partitas?
Post by: (: premont :) on March 14, 2009, 05:03:35 AM
Yes yes yes!  Kuijken does magnificently.  I cannot give an in-depth comparison-and-contrast review of the various 'Sonatas & Partitas' recordings floating about, but he does so well that I can safely recommend him...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51b1FzOJfDL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://www.amazon.com/Bach-Sonatas-Partitas-BWV-1001-1006/dp/B000026ND9/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1236981899&sr=1-1)

Not only are these performed wonderfully, but his violin sounds so good it'll melt your ears clean off!  :o  ;D

As far as I can see, this is the first Kuijken recording.

And as far as I know it is OOP.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas
Post by: Coopmv on March 14, 2009, 06:15:56 AM
Standage?? He has not to my knowledge recorded these works. And Mullova hasn´t recorded but the Partitas

Check this out ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41jfiwgfiVL._SS400_.jpg)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas
Post by: (: premont :) on March 14, 2009, 07:00:10 AM
Check this out ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41jfiwgfiVL._SS400_.jpg)

I did so a year ago, and this is the violin-harpsichord sonatas. I wrote about them in this forum.
In this repertoire BTW I find Standage superior to Mullova.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas
Post by: Coopmv on March 14, 2009, 07:11:34 AM
I did so a year ago, and this is the violin-harpsichord sonatas. I wrote about them in this forum.
In this repertoire BTW I find Standage superior to Mullova.

I believe most of the more recent recordings Standage made (with Chandos) after he left the English Concert to found Collegium Musicum 90 have been Albinoni works ...
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas
Post by: DavidRoss on April 22, 2009, 06:46:08 AM
As most probably know already, Mullova has now recorded the complete Bach Sonatas & Partitas for solo violin, available on the new Onyx label:
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/ONYX4040.jpg)

First impressions follow (copied from "listening now" thread).

At times surprisingly metronomic, but for the most part (as in the Chaccone) her judicious rubato was subtle and tasteful.  My overall sense is of restrained passion:  depth of feeling tempered by intellect, study, discipline, and respect.  Less lively and zestful than Podger but hardly as stern as the old school (Grumiaux et al) and with fewer virtuoso flights than Zehetmair.  At first go round I wondered if she might not be reined in a bit much, as if concern with establishing her HIP creds mitigated some freedom to soar with abandon.  But I am now working through it for a second time (just finished Sonata #1 in G minor BWV 1001) and am completely captivated by her purity of tone (using her gut-strung Guadagnini and replica period bow), her subtle inflections of phrasing, and her self-effacing restraint.  It helps that the recording's sound quality is nigh on faultless--close-miked in a moderately reverberant but small acoustic space that enriches her tone.

I've little doubt that this will take it's place alongside those mentioned above and Monica Huggett's as a reference recording to which I will return frequently in years hence to refresh my weary soul.
Title: Re: No brickbats here: Best Bach violin partitas?
Post by: violinlands on April 22, 2009, 09:48:59 AM
Szering's recording for Odyssey-Columbia for me.
But listen to the third sonata recorded by 13 years
old Menuhin.

I agree with Carlos 100 percent. The early recordings of the Sonatas and Partitas remain unsurpassed. He got his Bach grounding from another great violinist Georges Enesco. We get the best of both worlds with their Bach Double Concert. The tragedy is that many here are too young to have heard the wonderful sound that came from his 78rmp. In most instances the CD transfer does not begin to give the the glorious sound that came from Menuhin's violin playing. The unique Menuhin sound is encapsulated in his 1934 version of Schubert's Ave Maria.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Coopmv on April 22, 2009, 03:53:09 PM
While I have Bach's violin works by Julia Fischer and Viktoria Mullova, I continue to come back to those by Henryk Szeryng and Arthur Grumiaux.  These old masters were outstanding violin virtuosos ...
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas
Post by: SonicMan46 on April 22, 2009, 04:30:39 PM
As most probably know already, Mullova has now recorded the complete Bach Sonatas & Partitas for solo violin, available on the new Onyx label:
(http://www.mdt.co.uk/public/pictures/products/standard/ONYX4040.jpg)....................


David - thanks for the comments - I have both Mullova & Podger coming in the mail of these works - lookin' forward to the experience - Dave  :)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Xenophanes on April 22, 2009, 06:01:08 PM
I've enjoyed Ilya Kaler's recording on Naxos.

http://www.amazon.com/J-S-Bach-Sonatas-Partitas-1001-1006/dp/B0015DM39M/ref=sr_1_32?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1240455558&sr=1-32
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Bunny on April 23, 2009, 09:04:16 AM
On modern violin, Christian Tetzlaff's excellent 1993 recording of the Sonatas and Partitas for Solo Violin (Virgin Classics) is available in a box set which is probably the best bargain of all as it includes Ralph Kirshbaum's excellent recording of Bach's Cello Suites as well.  Tetzlaff's first recording of the Bach is excellent, and imo better than his later one for Hännsler.  It's usually available very inexpensively (usually around $20 for 4 discs), so there's no reason not to have this on your shelves as well. 

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51276HE795L._SS400_.jpg)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: ChamberNut on April 23, 2009, 09:07:39 AM
I've enjoyed Ilya Kaler's recording on Naxos.

http://www.amazon.com/J-S-Bach-Sonatas-Partitas-1001-1006/dp/B0015DM39M/ref=sr_1_32?ie=UTF8&s=music&qid=1240455558&sr=1-32

That's the one I have also.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Antoine Marchand on April 23, 2009, 10:32:54 AM
IMO the Sonatas and Partitas by Hélène Schmitt should be strongly recommended too.

She has a beautiful and fleshy tone, extraordinarily well recorded on Alpha Records.

Her approach is rather personal and imaginative, not dry or academic.

The Alpha Records site provides two mp3 generous examples in these links:

CD1 http://www.fugalibera.com/readmorecd.php?id=178

CD2 http://www.fugalibera.com/readmorecd.php?id=186
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: FideLeo on April 26, 2009, 10:16:33 AM

Her approach is rather personal and imaginative, not dry or academic.


I would agree with you on that - an occasional listen now and then is truly refreshing.  In a 2007 review in Early Music (written by David Irving) on "Bach Unaccompanied," she was grouped with John Holloway as "Baroque specialists" (in contrast with Jacqueline Ross and Richard Tognetti as crossovers who play on both period and modern instruments).  Irving's sympathies appear to be with the baroque specialists.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: jlaurson on June 03, 2009, 02:11:48 AM
FYI, chaps:

Viktoria Mullova’s Bach (http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=563)
http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=563 (http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=563)

Quote
...With first impressions manifesting themselves as hardened opinions, the differences between her and Tetzlaff, which I originally thought would be small despite Mullova’s quasi-HIP approach, became ever more obvious. Painfully so, after a while. After a while, the audio quality of the Hänssler recording gives you the impression of being thrown back 25 years. And the interpretation becomes more and more uninteresting. Not skipping ahead whenever it was Tetzlaff‘s turn grew ever more difficult. When Mullova came back on (say, with the A minor Fuga after Tetzlaff’s Grave), it felt like relief...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41Le67MQT8L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Bach, Sonatas & Partitas
Viktoria Mullova
Onyx 4040 (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B001SB1KHW/goodmusicguide-20)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Coopmv on June 06, 2009, 04:48:22 PM
This is one of my all-time favorites ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SET26AE7L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: jlaurson on June 07, 2009, 01:04:51 AM
This is one of my all-time favorites ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41SET26AE7L._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

Strange. That has to be my least favorite Grumiaux recording and one of my least favorite S&P.
Incredibly bland. Like Vanilla pudding without the flavor.
Have you got Milstein?
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Que on June 07, 2009, 01:20:41 AM
Strange. That has to be my least favorite Grumiaux recording and one of my least favorite S&P.
Incredibly bland. Like Vanilla pudding without the flavor.

Agreed. Though I'm aware that amongst many this is a favourite.

Quote
Have you got Milstein?

Ditto. :) But his earlier cycle for Capitol (now on EMI) is quite different from his later old-age DG cycle - I prefer the former. Also breathtaking is his '35 recording of Partita no. 2 (on Biddulph LAB 055, "Nathan Milstein, the early Columbia recordings, Baroque masterpieces")

Q
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Coopmv on June 07, 2009, 03:42:28 AM
Strange. That has to be my least favorite Grumiaux recording and one of my least favorite S&P.
Incredibly bland. Like Vanilla pudding without the flavor.
Have you got Milstein?


No, I do not have one single Milstein's recording, on LP or on CD.  I grew up in classical music with Szeryng and Grumiaux.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: jlaurson on June 07, 2009, 04:14:49 AM

Ditto. :) But his earlier cycle for Capitol (now on EMI) is quite different from his later old-age DG cycle - I prefer the former. Also breathtaking is his '35 recording of Partita no. 2 (on Biddulph LAB 055, "Nathan Milstein, the early Columbia recordings, Baroque masterpieces")

Whaaa? You prefer the EMI recordings? Hmmm, well... That surprises me. Sloppy readings... I didn't, after hesitating for a second, think I needed to specify which Milstein I meant (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000001H00/nectarandambr-20).  ;D


No, I do not have one single Milstein's recording, on LP or on CD.  I grew up in classical music with Szeryng and Grumiaux.


Undoubtedly your loss. In many instances. (Though Szeryng's S&P is a fine recording that I'd never scoff at.)  
Milstein is one of the bona-fide greats. Like Szerying & Grumiaux... although I'd put him ahead of either in soloistic terms.
(And, with few exceptions, wherever there's Heifetz, Oistrakh, & Miltein to choose from, I prefer M over O over H.)
Try his old recording: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/07/budget-picks-no-3.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/07/budget-picks-no-3.html) For $3,- you could get worse introductions to Milstein.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Coopmv on June 07, 2009, 04:27:42 AM
Whaaa? You prefer the EMI recordings? Hmmm, well... That surprises me. Sloppy readings... I didn't, after hesitating for a second, think I needed to specify which Milstein I meant (http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/B000001H00/nectarandambr-20).  ;D



Undoubtedly your loss. In many instances. (Though Szeryng's S&P is a fine recording that I'd never scoff at.)  
Milstein is one of the bona-fide greats. Like Szerying & Grumiaux... although I'd put him ahead of either in soloistic terms.
(And, with few exceptions, wherever there's Heifetz, Oistrakh, & Miltein to choose from, I prefer M over O over H.)
Try his old recording: http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/07/budget-picks-no-3.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2005/07/budget-picks-no-3.html) For $3,- you could get worse introductions to Milstein.


I suppose one reason I have never ventured into recordings by Milstein is my primary focus has always been on baroque and there are already many outstanding violinists that specialize in this subgenre of classical music ...
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: snyprrr on August 21, 2009, 11:31:34 AM
Anyone know Karl Suske on Berlin-label?
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Bulldog on August 21, 2009, 12:04:03 PM
I suppose one reason I have never ventured into recordings by Milstein is my primary focus has always been on baroque and there are already many outstanding violinists that specialize in this subgenre of classical music ...

But Milstein specialized in it as much as Szerying and Grumiaux.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Dr. Dread on August 21, 2009, 12:07:10 PM
I have Milstein's '70s set. I need another one but never seem to get around to it. Maybe something that complements the Milstein nicely.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Philoctetes on August 21, 2009, 01:01:37 PM
My vote goes to the impassioned Enescu. Though I also enjoy Podger's a lot, as well.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on August 21, 2009, 01:03:45 PM
Anyone know Karl Suske on Berlin-label?

Yes, and he is one of my modern instruments favorites. Clean, noble and without idiosyncrasies.
Not unlike Kaler.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Coopmv on August 23, 2009, 02:45:49 AM
Yes, and he is one of my modern instruments favorites. Clean, noble and without idiosyncrasies.
Not unlike Kaler.


A new Gidon Kremer?
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on August 23, 2009, 02:57:40 AM
A new Gidon Kremer?


I have never heard any of Kremer´s recordings, so I can not tell.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: jwinter on August 23, 2009, 10:03:12 AM
Anyone heard Rudolf Gahler's version, played with a curved bow?  Wondering what difference it makes as far as the sound of the violin, and if it's an interpretation worth exploring....
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51gABkEC5SL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on August 23, 2009, 11:27:20 AM
Anyone heard Rudolf Gahler's version, played with a curved bow?  Wondering what difference it makes as far as the sound of the violin, and if it's an interpretation worth exploring....

Theoretically the possibility of activating three or four strings at the same time seems to be an irresistible option. In practice it does not add much of importance to the music. To be honest: These CDs have not spun much on my deck. Maybe part of the explanation is, that Gähler does not compare to the great alternatives without curved bow.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: jwinter on August 26, 2009, 02:37:06 PM
Theoretically the possibility of activating three or four strings at the same time seems to be an irresistible option. In practice it does not add much of importance to the music. To be honest: These CDs have not spun much on my deck. Maybe part of the explanation is, that Gähler does not compare to the great alternatives without curved bow.

Much as I suspected, thanks... :)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Franco on August 27, 2009, 05:47:11 AM
Anyone heard Rudolf Gahler's version, played with a curved bow?  Wondering what difference it makes as far as the sound of the violin, and if it's an interpretation worth exploring....
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51gABkEC5SL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

I'm confused, it is easy to make the wood curve, but how does one make the bow hairs curve?

EDIT: After a quick Google, the hairs are loosened.  Not sure if this is an unqualified good thing.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas
Post by: ccar on September 12, 2009, 04:04:01 AM

Alas, I have to agree that Enescu waited too late to record the works. Same IMO with Szigeti. However, both artists are so insightful in places that I keep their sets around anyway, even though I listen only on rare occasion.

Dirk

I fully agree. Not for the purists or perfectionists.  But for magical phrasing and individual artistry I also do come back to Szigeti (and Enescu).
Apart from the later complete set (1955-1956) Szigeti earlier versions of Sonatas n. 1 (1931 and 1946) n.2 (1933 and 1949) and Partita n.3 (1949) are worth hearing and always a refreshing oasis in a desert of so many academic, historically informed, perfectly recorded but insipid versions .    
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas
Post by: (: premont :) on September 12, 2009, 06:05:31 AM
.. historically informed, perfectly recorded but insipid versions .    

Would you please put a name (or two) on these (do I suppose) many historically informed, perfectly recorded but insipid versions?

BTW this is your first post. Welcome to the forum.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: DavidW on September 12, 2009, 06:17:33 AM
Welcome to the forum ccar, would have been nice if you had bothered to introduce yourself in the introductions room first. :P

It's kind of like taking off your hat and your coat and greeting the host before helping yourself to the champagne. ;D
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas
Post by: Gurn Blanston on September 12, 2009, 06:42:14 AM
Would you please put a name (or two) on these (do I suppose) many historically informed, perfectly recorded but insipid versions?

BTW this is your first post. Welcome to the forum.

I'm curious about that too. Of course, I greatly prefer ALL Bach to be played as though it was composed 200 years later, but still, I'd like to know who I can compare it against... ::)

8)

----------------
Listening to:
Constance Keene - Hummel Sonata #9 in C for Piano WoO 3 1st mvmt
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: WI Dan on September 12, 2009, 07:38:44 PM
Another vote for Milstein on EMI, for both.   :)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Coopmv on September 12, 2009, 07:44:59 PM
Another vote for Milstein on EMI, for both.   :)

 

I bought this 2-CD set about 2 months ago.  Both the SQ and performance were excellent.  I believe Milstein recorded these Bach works for both DG and EMI ...

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51W8RQ4SPYL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)

I somehow forgot to add the CD photo ...    ???
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: WI Dan on September 12, 2009, 09:53:53 PM
I should have made clear that mine are these remastered old timers, originally from the 1950's, I believe:
 
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/411DAJXABPL._SL500_AA240_.jpg) (http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41VHBTGS4AL._SL500_AA240_.jpg)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: WI Dan on September 13, 2009, 01:17:55 AM
They are the same recording as:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41TBTX7NQ9L.jpg)

Q

Ah, .. I see.  Thanks, Que.
That double CD set is now OOP, according to Amazon.

Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Coopmv on September 13, 2009, 02:37:49 AM
They are the same recording as:

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41TBTX7NQ9L.jpg)

Q

The DG set is stereo.  It is an excellent set and I am glad I finally picked up some recordings by Milstein.
Title: HELP
Post by: snyprrr on September 15, 2009, 06:22:02 PM
After studying this thread and other sources I have settled on a choice to get to know these works, but I can't choose... any opinions between Sitovetsky vs. Mintz?

Please don't judge my choices. I know... there are others out there I would also like to try, including the Milstein (both versions vying for attention!), but, honestly, the prices for some of the sets I saw on Amazon were pretty high... I did see a version of the Szyrig/DG (sic) for cheap, but, I'm just NOT gonna pay a lot for that muffler!
Title: Re: HELP
Post by: jlaurson on September 18, 2009, 01:22:27 AM
After studying this thread and other sources I have settled on a choice to get to know these works, but I can't choose... any opinions between Sitovetsky vs. Mintz?

Please don't judge my choices. I know... there are others out there I would also like to try, including the Milstein (both versions vying for attention!), but, honestly, the prices for some of the sets I saw on Amazon were pretty high... I did see a version of the Szyrig/DG (sic) for cheap, but, I'm just NOT gonna pay a lot for that muffler!

Milstein, DG & Podger, Channel Classics would be my top two choices (if I were thus limited).
http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2004/07/dip-your-ears-no-2.html (http://ionarts.blogspot.com/2004/07/dip-your-ears-no-2.html)

But I find Mintz terrific, too... certainly the most mellifluous account of the S&P that I've heard to date.

And if you feel like spending the big bucks, after all, there's Mullova on Onyx, and that's really grown on me.
http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=563 (http://www.weta.org/fmblog/?p=563)
Title: Re: HELP
Post by: (: premont :) on September 18, 2009, 02:43:12 AM
But I find Mintz terrific, too... certainly the most mellifluous account of the S&P that I've heard to date.

Do you mean romantic?

Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: MN Dave on September 18, 2009, 03:08:50 AM
The DG set is stereo.  It is an excellent set and I am glad I finally picked up some recordings by Milstein.

I listen to that all the time.
Title: Re: HELP
Post by: jlaurson on September 18, 2009, 04:46:48 AM
Do you mean romantic?



No... not really. Rather "smooth". As if there was no difficulty involved in playing it... honeyed rather than edgy--but not treacly. "Singing" perhaps, is a better word than "honeyed".
Title: Re: HELP
Post by: Lethevich on September 18, 2009, 04:56:18 AM
No... not really. Rather "smooth". As if there was no difficulty involved in playing it... honeyed rather than edgy--but not treacly. "Singing" perhaps, is a better word than "honeyed".

This sounds like Mozart's decription of how music should be played - it must "flow like oil". I kind of like that description...
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: snyprrr on September 18, 2009, 07:41:36 PM
Like butta...

Well, I ended up getting the Sitkovetsky on Hanssler (formerly Orfeo)...it was only $6... Mintz was just a few dollars more... hey, every penny right now $:)!$$$ 0:)

I have Mintz playing Shostakovich's Violin and Viola Sonatas, and he tears up Paganini. He always delivers the goods in spades.

I have Sitkovetsky playing DSCH and Prokofiev concertos. Great set.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on September 19, 2009, 03:52:39 AM
Well, I ended up getting the Sitkovetsky on Hanssler (formerly Orfeo)...

Two different recordings AFAIK.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: snyprrr on September 19, 2009, 09:18:34 AM
Two different recordings AFAIK.

I was reading one of the reviews on Amazon, and my impression was that Hanssler had gotten the Orfeo recording for Hanssler's "Complete Bach" set?

Can anyone concur?...either way?
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on September 19, 2009, 04:50:21 PM
I was reading one of the reviews on Amazon, and my impression was that Hanssler had gotten the Orfeo recording for Hanssler's "Complete Bach" set?

Can anyone concur?...either way?

According to JPC´s website the Orfeo recording was made in 1985 and the Haenssler recording in 1997.
I also remember some review long time ago comparing the two as if they were two different recordings.
I own the Haenssler, but not the Orfeo, and can not make the comparison.
Title: Sitkovetsky's Banana
Post by: snyprrr on September 20, 2009, 01:48:17 PM
Just listened to the Sitkovetsky/Hanssler...

First of all, I can't remember if or when I listened to the whole thing in one sitting, but my friend and I were just sitting there in awe of this supreme music...it just goes on and on like the Energizer bunny, just endlessly spinning webs of music before your ears. WOW!!!

So, as I was listening, I was thinking that the only thing a performer could do would be to be "invisible", and just let the music speak. Now, I think I could enjoy a performance where the player was gasping and straining, but, of course, Sitkovetsky is in the "effortless" class of performer. The sensation I got most often was that the music was "flying".

Sometimes, his attack sounded like it was coming out of nothing, and the actual sound of the violin seemed to take on a very rarified tone of delicacy. All the double-,triple-, and quad-stops are executed in mind boggling fashion. I started acting like Herbert Lom in the PinkPanther movies...little tiks developed as the mind blowing factor increased!!! The music is just some overwhelming that you're just left shaking your head.

Now, I don't have any compares to Sitkovetsky, but, I can imagine the Mintz takes this to the next level. Not that Sitkovetsky is any slouch, but Mintz's reputation is pretty formidable. Frankly, I'm starting to wonder how oldies like Milstein... well, I guess I've just got to hear him!

I guess Sitkovetsky sounds as if he's playing with reserve, as if he's got chops to spare. There were points in the C Major Sonata that Sitkovetsky was using every ounce of aplomb, but he never really shows any strain whatsoever. Trust me, I'm so blown away by this cd that Sitkovetsky could be playing a banana for all I care.

This music is so supreme I honestly can't write anymore. Just thinking about it gives me chills. And, I think, for me, I now prefer Bach solo violin to Bach solo cello. I've tried to master listening to the cello suites for years (Ma or Rosty), but these violin works got me from the first listen.

WOW!!! Now I know what the words transcendant and sublime were invented for!
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Antoine Marchand on January 13, 2010, 04:35:01 PM
I was wondering if anyone knows anything about this recording (or performer)?

J.S. Bach - Sonaten & Partiten für Violine BWV 1001-1006
3 CDs
Susanne Lautenbacher, violin
Documents, ADD, 1974

Listening to some excerpts, it seems rather expressive and well permormed. Am I wrong?

 :)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: SonicMan46 on January 13, 2010, 04:55:09 PM
I was wondering if anyone knows anything about this recording (or performer)?

J.S. Bach - Sonaten & Partiten für Violine BWV 1001-1006  3 CDs  Susanne Lautenbacher, violin
Documents, ADD, 1974

Antoine - I cannot comment on her in the Bach performances, but suspect that she does then well!

However, I do own the 2-CD set w/ her below in the Biber Rosary Sonatas - she is fabulous - do not much about her and am not sure that I own any other recordings w/ her!  Dave  :D

(http://www.bluntinstrument.org.uk/biber/discography/1962/LautenbacherBIG-rerelease.jpg)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Marc on January 13, 2010, 05:03:07 PM
I was wondering if anyone knows anything about this recording (or performer)?

J.S. Bach - Sonaten & Partiten für Violine BWV 1001-1006
3 CDs
Susanne Lautenbacher, violin
Documents, ADD, 1974

Listening to some excerpts, it seems rather expressive and well permormed. Am I wrong?

 :)

Well, if your ears are still OK .....  ;)

Lautenbacher's (2nd) recording (originally produced by VOX) is kind of a 'classic', and is merely considered a 'spiritual' reading. I must admit though that it wasn't my cup of tea. Recording too shrill, too much legato playing. But it's been some time since I listened to it. So, who knows, maybe my ears did change in the meantime! :)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on January 13, 2010, 05:16:53 PM
I was wondering if anyone knows anything about this recording (or performer)?

J.S. Bach - Sonaten & Partiten für Violine BWV 1001-1006
3 CDs
Susanne Lautenbacher, violin
Documents, ADD, 1974

Actually one of my favorite recordings on non period instument, but the release on Documents can not be recommended because of rather harsh sound quality. Instead the Vox CD rerelease of the same recording is preferable for sound quality.

F.I. here:
http://www.cd101.net/

She recorded the works for Beyer some years before the Vox recording, and the Vox is the better. Her Biber CDs are also very recommendable.

Some discussion of the works and among others the Lautenbacher recordings here:

http://www.zerogain.com/forum/showthread.php?t=16257
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Antoine Marchand on January 13, 2010, 06:32:56 PM
Thanks, Dave, Marc and Premont for the info. I didn't know anything about Lautenbacher, but she seems an important performer and those S & P look enticing.

BTW, I was reading the informative posts on Zero Gain, when the naked girl and her broken violin appeared there... again.  :)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Marc on January 14, 2010, 04:17:54 AM
Thanks, Dave, Marc and Premont for the info. I didn't know anything about Lautenbacher, but she seems an important performer and those S & P look enticing.

BTW, I was reading the informative posts on Zero Gain, when the naked girl and her broken violin appeared there... again.  :)
Yes, it was stolen from my hard drive by my cousin Larry, who's got sort of a personality disorder and thinx he's my twin brother. Don't pay attention to his comments! ;D

Topic duty: before going to bed, I listened to the non-VOX reissue of Lautenbacher (1st sonata & partita) at my very modest portable radio/cd/mc-recorder. There are some advantages with this machine: rather average, more wool(l)y and less sharp sound. Combined with a good working treble button I have to admit that my disliking of her playing must have been caused mainly by the harsh sound quality. So, if I were you, I'd follow Premont's advice and get the VOX-reissue.

For the recordings of non-baroque violinists that I know, I still prefer Zehetmaier and Szeryng though.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on January 14, 2010, 11:52:25 AM
Yes, it was stolen from my hard drive by my cousin Larry, who's got sort of a personality disorder and thinx he's my twin brother. Don't pay attention to his comments! ;D

Problem is, that he writes in your name. :D
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Vladimir on July 30, 2010, 02:03:29 AM
I'm trying to get a copy of the Sonatas and Partitas recording by Christian Ferras -- but impossible to find.

If anyone sees a copy for sale, I'll be really pleased if they could let me know where!
Lovely but poor sonics even for a bootleg like this.
I have once seen its rip shared through the Russian torrent tracker now suppressed.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on September 04, 2010, 06:45:21 AM
Listening today to the third sonata BWV 1005, played by Isabelle Faust

This  is a real challenge. Dry tone, pretty limited colour palate,  and the recording is cold and unfriendly. There were times when I thought she left the music behind – the fugue just seems to show no logic, no structure, no thread of argument. And the Allegro is taken so fast you can hardly hear the music in there.

The slower movements are more successful. Her style is what I think of as modernist:  not a hint of romanticism; very sparse ornamentation. Nevertheless she is subtle and quite lyrical in the Adagio  and  Largo --  I’m going to keep this CD.

Maybe the whole  performance will grow on me in time: there may be all sorts of ideas in the faster movements which have so far passed me by.

But I’m not really relishing the idea of  going back to it. Give me Ferras or Szigeti as antidote please.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Peregrine on September 04, 2010, 11:22:42 AM
Listening today to the third sonata BWV 1005, played by Isabelle Faust

This  is a real challenge. Dry tone, pretty limited colour palate,  and the recording is cold and unfriendly. There were times when I thought she left the music behind – the fugue just seems to show no logic, no structure, no thread of argument. And the Allegro is taken so fast you can hardly hear the music in there.

The slower movements are more successful. Her style is what I think of as modernist:  not a hint of romanticism; very sparse ornamentation. Nevertheless she is subtle and quite lyrical in the Adagio  and  Largo --  I’m going to keep this CD.

Maybe the whole  performance will grow on me in time: there may be all sorts of ideas in the faster movements which have so far passed me by.

But I’m not really relishing the idea of  going back to it. Give me Ferras or Szigeti as antidote please.

Have you heard Edinger?
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on September 04, 2010, 11:10:30 PM
Have you heard Edinger?

No -- what's her style?
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Peregrine on September 05, 2010, 01:29:57 AM
I'ld say she sounds the opposite to how you describe Faust. Would class them as deep, lush, romanticised readings. Maybe too drawn out for some, but I find them very profound.

Here's a couple of samples -

http://www.mediafire.com/?15g2y57a54gkf
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on September 06, 2010, 12:15:07 PM
I'ld say she sounds the opposite to how you describe Faust. Would class them as deep, lush, romanticised readings. Maybe too drawn out for some, but I find them very profound.

Here's a couple of samples -

http://www.mediafire.com/?15g2y57a54gkf

Very generous samples too -- much appreciated.

So far I have listened just once to the B minor partita. I was struck by the purity of her intonation. And everything is so mellifluous -- the articulation and inflection seem to serve the melody. Tempos are sometimes a bit slower than I am used to, but that's not at all a problem. On the contrary.

Thanks for introducing me to this artist.

Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Peregrine on September 06, 2010, 01:02:30 PM
Thanks for introducing me to this artist.

No worries. It was some tub thumping at RMCR that first piqued my interest and very pleased I am with the set too.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: nowheredense on February 28, 2011, 06:57:22 AM
My current favourite choices are Telmanyi, Lucy von Dael and Mullova. The Telmanyi's recording I have is remastered by China Record Shanghai Corp. It is less expansive then the Testament's in China.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Kontrapunctus on February 28, 2011, 03:12:59 PM
This is a new HIP performance by Pavlo Beznosiuk-it's pretty good:
(http://www.sa-cd.net/covers/6957.jpg)

For a more emotionally invested performance, I prefer this live concert by Oleg Kagan (just a few months before he died from cancer...)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41GmLvKHQoL._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
 
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: DavidRoss on February 28, 2011, 05:47:07 PM
Listening to the clips peregrine provided of Edinger.  Nice tone, otherwise quite different from my usual.  Very languid, almost melancholy.  If it's a similar reading you're after with a bit more rhythmic vitality, try Julia Fischer.

http://www.youtube.com/v/MZbr1I2Eqwo
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: quark on June 14, 2011, 01:55:23 AM
My personal Favourites:

Violinists of the golden age (50's, 60's, 70's):
Szeryng (1956), Grumiaux, Milstein (the 70's version, which Milstein himself preferred)

Contempoarary (80's to present):
1)For approaches that incorporate the HIP lesson, while using modern (or partially modern) equipment:
Kremer (on ECM), Mullova (her Onyx cycle with the baroque bow), Ibragimova
2) For full-fledged HIP performances:
Rachel Podger, Jaap Schroeder
3) For full-fledged romantic performances:
Oleg Kagan (live), James Ehnes, Julia Fischer

Honorary mentions for Wanda Wilkomirska's and Viviane Hagner's 2nd Partita.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on June 14, 2011, 08:50:41 AM
This is a new HIP performance by Pavlo Beznosiuk-it's pretty good:
(http://www.sa-cd.net/covers/6957.jpg)

Compared to other existing HIP- recordings of this music I find this rather disappointing. I get the impression all the time, that almost all Beznosiuk´s powers are used to play the right notes at the right time, and that only little energy is left for interpretation. The end result is for that reason somewhat blend.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: quark on June 19, 2011, 10:48:33 PM
Don't know about Beznosiuk's version, but two more recordings definitely make my hall of fame:

-Szigeti (listened this morning to his sonata BWV 1001 and had to stop in front of the office door to allow the Siliano to finish (couldn't interrupt the maestro Bach and the maestro Szigeti with something as trivial as my vile job...)
-Oscar Shumsky (beautiful romatic rendition)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Kontrapunctus on June 23, 2011, 03:40:11 PM
Compared to other existing HIP- recordings of this music I find this rather disappointing. I get the impression all the time, that almost all Beznosiuk´s powers are used to play the right notes at the right time, and that only little energy is left for interpretation. The end result is for that reason somewhat blend.

The more I listen to Beznosiuk's the less I like it! I put my copy up for sale on Amazon.

On a related note (pun intended...), are these two Zehetmair recordings the same? ( I assume that the Apex is a reissue.)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51fB7Qyrx1L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51kaD7R3RML._SL500_.jpg)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on June 23, 2011, 08:08:42 PM
The more I listen to Beznosiuk's the less I like it! I put my copy up for sale on Amazon.

I have flirted with the thought of doing similar things, but the PI-completist in me bids me to keep it - as well as the even worse recording of the Partitas by Midori Seiler.


Quote from: Toccata&Fugue
On a related note (pun intended...), are these two Zehetmair recordings the same? ( I assume that the Apex is a reissue.)

I have never heard of other than one Zehetmair recording of these works, made about 20 years ago for Teldec. BTW I have parted with this recording (non PI). I think it is too youthful and immature and has not got the immediate charm of youth.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: jlaurson on June 24, 2011, 01:36:05 AM
The more I listen to Beznosiuk's the less I like it! I put my copy up for sale on Amazon.

On a related note (pun intended...), are these two Zehetmair recordings the same? ( I assume that the Apex is a reissue.)

(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51fB7Qyrx1L._SL500_AA300_.jpg)
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/51kaD7R3RML._SL500_.jpg)

Certainly the same. (Apex always means a re-issued recording, and always from the Telarc/Warner family...
Even if you're not sure, the assumption is safe; there are only a handful of cases where there are two re-issues (or one OOP recording and one re-issue of the same work with the same performers but a different recording) on the same label. Most of them DG with Beethoven and Karajan, ditto his DSCH 10th... anyone can think of more cases?)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: kishnevi on June 24, 2011, 08:59:11 AM
Certainly the same. (Apex always means a re-issued recording, and always from the Telarc/Warner family...
Even if you're not sure, the assumption is safe; there are only a handful of cases where there are two re-issues (or one OOP recording and one re-issue of the same work with the same performers but a different recording) on the same label. Most of them DG with Beethoven and Karajan, ditto his DSCH 10th... anyone can think of more cases?)

Karajan did two Mahler 9s, didn't he?   And with everything he recorded,  there are probably more duplicates in there if we look. 

But everything else I can think of involves a different label or some difference among the performers.

ETA, two days late and at least a dollar short--Brendel recorded the Beethoven sonatas twice for Philips, and at least some Schubert works.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Kontrapunctus on June 25, 2011, 08:21:16 AM
After hearing some samples from Zehetmair, I decided to buy Arthur Grumiaux's set! ($9.69--quite a deal!)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on June 28, 2011, 03:15:37 AM
After hearing some samples from Zehetmair, I decided to buy Arthur Grumiaux's set! ($9.69--quite a deal!)

A far better choice IMO.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Florestan on June 28, 2011, 11:32:34 AM
After hearing some samples from Zehetmair, I decided to buy Arthur Grumiaux's set! ($9.69--quite a deal!)

You chose wisely.  :D
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Kontrapunctus on June 28, 2011, 08:44:04 PM
A far better choice IMO.

Haha, well, it arrived yesterday, and from what I've heard so far, I really like it. Wow, what amazing tone he had.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: DavidRoss on July 04, 2011, 07:16:51 AM
Haha, well, it arrived yesterday, and from what I've heard so far, I really like it. Wow, what amazing tone he had.
When you tire of Grumiaux, you might find Zehetmair more satisfying.  I do, but his recording rubbed my sensibilities the wrong way when I first heard only samples of it.  Some time later I downloaded some complete tracks and liked them so much I bought the disc, now one of my faves, along with many others--including Grumiaux.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Antoine Marchand on July 04, 2011, 07:36:17 AM
When you tire of Grumiaux, you might find Zehetmair more satisfying.  I do, but his recording rubbed my sensibilities the wrong way when I first heard only samples of it.  Some time later I downloaded some complete tracks and liked them so much I bought the disc, now one of my faves, along with many others--including Grumiaux.

I don't have the Zehetmair set, but I judge very highly his skills and wisdom as a violinist. That said, Grumiaux didn't know how to play badly a piece and I really like his sonatas & partitas. As you can see, this time I am an eclectic animal.  ;D
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on July 04, 2011, 09:01:49 AM
I don't have the Zehetmair set, but I judge very highly his skills and wisdom as a violinist. That said, Grumiaux didn't know how to play badly a piece and I really like his sonatas & partitas. As you can see, this time I am an eclectic animal.  ;D

Zehetmair´s recording of the S&P´s are not really that bad, but as I wrote above : I think it is too youthful and immature and has not got the immediate charm of youth, and I could add, that the competition is to strong. He has improved  immensely since that recording, and I hope he will rerecord the pieces some day.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Antoine Marchand on July 04, 2011, 09:17:37 AM
Zehetmair´s recording of the S&P´s are not really that bad, but as I wrote above : I think it is too youthful and immature and has not got the immediate charm of youth, and I could add, that the competition is to strong. He has improved  immensely since that recording, and I hope he will rerecord the pieces some day.

It was exactly my opinion about the earlier Mozart recording by Kristian Bezuidenhout; but you didn't listen to the advice of your Chilean friend.  :)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on July 04, 2011, 11:07:01 AM
It was exactly my opinion about the earlier Mozart recording by Kristian Bezuidenhout; but you didn't listen to the advice of your Chilean friend.  :)

I usually listen to your advices, but in this case I decided to get the red CD while it was available, - maybe I was too fast, have not listened to it yet.

But I have listened to another Bezuidenhout recording I got recently,-  the Fifth Brandenburg concerto with COE led by Daniel Hope from the violin and with Bezuidenhout on the harpsichord. The oveall interpretation is good with some nice violin-traverse flute interplay, but the harpsichord is so backward located as to be almost inaudible - surprising for a recording from 2005. One gets the definite impression in the first movement, that the harpsichord part isn´t but an elaborate continuo part. But the harpsichord "cadenza" on the other hand is played by Bezuidenhout with so much senseless "Sturm und Drang" as to fall completely apart.  This is certainly much too youthful playing. On the rest of the CD Hope is a sensitive soloist in the Violin concertos.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Que on October 08, 2011, 11:31:11 PM
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/3760009292512.jpg)

NEW! :) (On Zig-Zag Territoires)

Q
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: North Star on October 08, 2011, 11:56:38 PM
Beyer plays Ciaconna live: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=cHjvlFwh6Dw
Mullova's Ciaconna: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uB14amsM3jo

Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: SonicMan46 on October 09, 2011, 04:55:29 AM
Interesting that this thread 'popped up'! :)

I'm on a short trip to Richmond, VA - we saw Wicked yesterday; but that morning I was in the fitness center on a treadmill listening to music from my iPod - well, the recording below was playing - believe that this has received a number of positive reviews in the forum in previous threads.  Matthews was originally from my hometown of Winston-Salem - went to the UNC School of the Arts, where her parents taught.  Own about a half dozen recordings of these works, including Mullova, but have not done any comparisons -  :-\

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/1166535176_NqbMm-D.jpg)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Marc on October 09, 2011, 10:08:13 AM
Interesting that this thread 'popped up'! :)

I'm on a short trip to Richmond, VA - we saw Wicked yesterday; but that morning I was in the fitness center on a treadmill listening to music from my iPod - well, the recording below was playing - believe that this has received a number of positive reviews in the forum in previous threads. Matthews was originally from my hometown of Winston-Salem - went to the UNC School of the Arts, where her parents taught.  Own about a half dozen recordings of these works, including Mullova, but have not done any comparisons - :-\

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/1166535176_NqbMm-D.jpg)

Well, it's been some time since I last listened to Matthews's Bach, but I do recall a very refined performance, with an emotional strength coming from within.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: bumtz on October 10, 2011, 08:37:23 AM
I like Oleg Kagan's live recordings made not long before his death, issued on Warner (originally on Erato). Might be not the most note-perfect Bach out there, but very emotional with beautiful deep sound (not captured that well on this recording, unfortunately). Can be obtained rather cheap at the UK Amazon: http://www.amazon.co.uk/Bach-Solo-Violin-Sonatas-Partitas/dp/B0018RAMBQ/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1318264567&sr=8-1 with samples available.   
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Josquin des Prez on October 10, 2011, 08:48:20 AM
I still prefer Enescu over any other, even though he was decrepit, arthritic and half deaf when he recorded them. Beyond that, Milstein's original set is hard to beat.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: jlaurson on October 10, 2011, 08:51:11 AM
I still prefer Enescu over any other, even though he was decrepit, arthritic and half deaf when he recorded them. Beyond that, Milstein's original set is hard to beat.

Milstein's 'original' set? On EMI? The scratchy one he himself spoke of derisively?
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Josquin des Prez on October 10, 2011, 08:58:41 AM
Milstein's 'original' set? On EMI? The scratchy one he himself spoke of derisively?

Yes. He gets the rhythm and counterpoint right. I care not for all the superfluous "qualities" later violinists brought to the table, including Milstein's own more "thoughtful" and technically accomplished (read: boring) second attempt in the 70s. It seems the majority of performers don't seem to understand that with Bach its best to simply stay out of the way and let the harmony speak for itself.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Antoine Marchand on November 12, 2011, 07:40:32 AM
Usually I don't see any comment on Elizabeth Wallfisch's interpretation of the sonatas & partitas for solo violin. Is it worth it? Thanks in advance.  :)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Kontrapunctus on November 12, 2011, 09:37:50 AM
Usually I don't see any comment on Elizabeth Wallfisch's interpretation of the sonatas & partitas for solo violin. Is it worth it? Thanks in advance.  :)

I've suffered through two in which she squeaked and sawed her way through a few of them at the Carmel Bach Festival. Perhaps she is now past her prime and that CD captured her in better times, but I wouldn't listen to it if someone gave it to me!
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Bulldog on November 12, 2011, 10:20:46 AM
Usually I don't see any comment on Elizabeth Wallfisch's interpretation of the sonatas & partitas for solo violin. Is it worth it? Thanks in advance.  :)

I think her interpretations are compelling, but many folks seem to consider them strident and quite unattractive.  I read somewhere that her set was for "hard-core period instrument fans".  That includes me.  I've had this set for many years and always am impressed when I play it.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Antoine Marchand on November 12, 2011, 10:55:28 AM
I've suffered through two in which she squeaked and sawed her way through a few of them at the Carmel Bach Festival. Perhaps she is now past her prime and that CD captured her in better times, but I wouldn't listen to it if someone gave it to me!

I think her interpretations are compelling, but many folks seem to consider them strident and quite unattractive.  I read somewhere that her set was for "hard-core period instrument fans".  That includes me.  I've had this set for many years and always am impressed when I play it.

Thanks for the opinions, Toccata&Fugue and Don.

It's weird, I have several versions of the sonatas & partitas, even by violinists that I don't admire a third of what I admire Mrs. Wallfisch, but I had never considered to purchase her sonatas & partitas or her sonatas for violin & harpsichord. I think I will do it, as she has never disappointed me and, at some extent, I could be considered a "hardcore period instrument fan".  :) 
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Odnoposoff on November 12, 2011, 10:57:09 AM
I know maybe 10 different recordings on those magnificent works, but to me, not one was better than the first Szering. It's just perfect.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Marc on November 12, 2011, 11:01:51 AM
Usually I don't see any comment on Elizabeth Wallfisch's interpretation of the sonatas & partitas for solo violin. Is it worth it? Thanks in advance.  :)

Well, since her recording has been replaced in the Hyperion catalogue by Alina Ibragimova's .... ;D

I might have Wallfisch's recording of the six somewhere on music cassette, but .... where?
I threw those cassettes away in some dark corner. :-[
I do not recall a real 'WOW' after listening to them, though.

Have to check this issue out again.
Let's dive into some corners this week! ;D
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Antoine Marchand on November 12, 2011, 11:15:58 AM
I know maybe 10 different recordings on those magnificent works, but to me, not one was better than the first Szering. It's just perfect.

Hi, Odnoposoff. Welcome aboard!

My favorite versions are all by HIP violinists: Kuijken I, Matthews, Schmidt, Podger and so, but undoubtedly those great violinists of the past have some wonderful things to say, too.

Apparently, I have a soft spot with female violinists because I am seriously thinking to purchase this new recording on Zig-Zag Territoires:

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/3760009292512.jpg)

 :)


Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Antoine Marchand on November 12, 2011, 11:25:20 AM
Well, since her recording has been replaced in the Hyperion catalogue by Alina Ibragimova's .... ;D

Yes, this is a crazy world, isn't it?  :)

I might have Wallfisch's recording of the six somewhere on music cassette, but .... where?
I threw those cassettes away in some dark corner. :-[
I do not recall a real 'WOW' after listening to them, though.

Have to check this issue out again.
Let's dive into some corners this week! ;D

I lost many jewels with my old cassetes because I did something really stupid with them. I sold all of them - when I was 19 or 20 years old - because I decided that I just needed compact discs.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Marc on November 12, 2011, 11:30:11 AM
I know maybe 10 different recordings on those magnificent works, but to me, not one was better than the first Szering. It's just perfect.

Szeryng is one of my favourite non-HIPs, too.
A bit 'stubborn', but I like that.

I was re-reading this thread and thought: wow, what a huge amount of different recordings of these great pieces! And I know so little of them. :(

Completists (living in Danmark or elsewhere ;)) really have to dig deep in their wallets.

Btw: I just ordered the Wallfisch set at the library.
(Got depressed in those dark corners.)
In about a week I will be able to listen to them (again).

Some of my faves so far: Szeryng, Zehetmaier, Kuijken I, Matthews and Fernandez. The latter, issued on the small label Flora is probably my top-notch choice.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Coopmv on November 12, 2011, 11:37:27 AM
(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/3760009292512.jpg)

NEW! :) (On Zig-Zag Territoires)

Q

Q,  Do you have this twofer?
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Antoine Marchand on November 12, 2011, 11:38:00 AM
... and Fernandez. The latter, issued on the small label Flora is probably my top-notch choice.

I forgot Fernandez.

It's a great interpretation, too, unfortunately quite unknown due to the almost nonexistent international distribution of Flora. 
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Marc on November 12, 2011, 11:44:43 AM
I forgot Fernandez.

It's a great interpretation, too, unfortunately quite unknown due to the almost nonexistent international distribution of Flora.

The Chaconne by Fernandez:
http://www.preludeklassiekemuziek.nl/stream/bach_flora_ciaccona_B.html

My guess is that the owner of this HIP-specialized shop (http://www.prelude-klassiekemuziek.nl/) will be pleased to send the set to anyone (after payment ;)), if you seek contact with him (reactie@preludeklassiekemuziek.nl).
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Que on November 12, 2011, 02:40:58 PM
Q,  Do you have this twofer?

Nope. I don't know yet if Ill buy it.

The Fernandez on Flora is already high my wishlist.

Q
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: jlaurson on November 12, 2011, 02:49:27 PM
Hi, Odnoposoff. Welcome aboard!

My favorite versions are all by HIP violinists: Kuijken I, Matthews, Schmidt, Podger and so, but undoubtedly those great violinists of the past have some wonderful things to say, too.

Apparently, I have a soft spot with female violinists because I am seriously thinking to purchase this new recording on Zig-Zag Territoires:

(http://www.jpc.de/image/w600/front/0/3760009292512.jpg)

 :)

What a cover! I want it just for that. Splendid, intelligent cover art. I @&$#^$% love it.

Yay, also, for Podger. Wonderful Podger.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Coopmv on November 13, 2011, 09:33:53 AM
Interesting that this thread 'popped up'! :)

I'm on a short trip to Richmond, VA - we saw Wicked yesterday; but that morning I was in the fitness center on a treadmill listening to music from my iPod - well, the recording below was playing - believe that this has received a number of positive reviews in the forum in previous threads.  Matthews was originally from my hometown of Winston-Salem - went to the UNC School of the Arts, where her parents taught.  Own about a half dozen recordings of these works, including Mullova, but have not done any comparisons -  :-\

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/1166535176_NqbMm-D.jpg)

Dave,  I already have these works by Mullova, Podger, Huggett, Fischer and old masters such as Grumiaux and Szeryng.  I am not sure if there are any compelling reasons to have this twofer ...
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Bulldog on November 13, 2011, 10:55:32 AM
Interesting that this thread 'popped up'! :)

I'm on a short trip to Richmond, VA - we saw Wicked yesterday; but that morning I was in the fitness center on a treadmill listening to music from my iPod - well, the recording below was playing - believe that this has received a number of positive reviews in the forum in previous threads.  Matthews was originally from my hometown of Winston-Salem - went to the UNC School of the Arts, where her parents taught.  Own about a half dozen recordings of these works, including Mullova, but have not done any comparisons -  :-\

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/1166535176_NqbMm-D.jpg)

The Matthews is one of the best period instrument sets on the market - get it.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on November 13, 2011, 01:56:35 PM
The Matthews is one of the best period instrument sets on the market - get it.

Seconded.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Marc on November 13, 2011, 02:02:38 PM
The Matthews is one of the best period instrument sets on the market - get it.

Seconded.

Thirded. :)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Marc on November 28, 2011, 11:19:36 AM
Usually I don't see any comment on Elizabeth Wallfisch's interpretation of the sonatas & partitas for solo violin. Is it worth it? Thanks in advance.  :)

Got a library copy and listened to the first disc. Cautious, polite and neat interpretations so far, just like her recordings of the violin concertos with the Orchestra of the Age of Enlightenment. So, IMO it's nice to listen to, but not a mandatory purchase, unless one thinks that Wallfisch playing her baroque violin at a pitch of A'=400Hz is worthwhile on its own to buy it.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on December 21, 2011, 03:09:12 AM
Bronislaw Gimpel's Vox recording of Bach's solo violin music  is thankfully once more available for download from amazon and
for streaming via spotify.
This is a wondeful recording particularly in the non fugal music. If you don't know them, then you're in for a treat. He's no silk
underwear violinist, but nevertheless there is real beauty and
emotional candour to the music he makes.

I listened yesterday to the spotify stream of the second and third sonatas and was, in
the slow movements at least, overwhelmed -- even if he didn't quite
eradicate memories of Ferras or Szigeti  in the big bad fugue.and the Allegro of the third.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo) - Oscar Shumsky!
Post by: Scion7 on February 27, 2012, 07:03:38 AM
On CD, I have Schroder's, and Tognetti's, but this is the one (1979 recording) that I am constantly coming back to listen to:

(http://s18.postimage.org/trkr7jrvd/Bach_Sonatas_Partitas_Violin_Shumsky_vinyl_box.jpg)

on CD:

http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003AJHHU4/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B002QB0AV0&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0CB1F62NAEPFMQC9SD6R (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/B003AJHHU4/ref=pd_lpo_k2_dp_sr_1?pf_rd_p=486539851&pf_rd_s=lpo-top-stripe-1&pf_rd_t=201&pf_rd_i=B002QB0AV0&pf_rd_m=ATVPDKIKX0DER&pf_rd_r=0CB1F62NAEPFMQC9SD6R)

http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=8188778 (http://www.cduniverse.com/productinfo.asp?pid=8188778)

Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: nico1616 on February 27, 2012, 09:09:20 AM
I love Perlman's interpretation. Overtly romantic, but irresistible  :)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo) - Oscar Shumsky!
Post by: (: premont :) on February 27, 2012, 12:26:38 PM
On CD, I have Schroder's, and Tognetti's, but this is the one that I am constantly coming back to listen to:

(http://s18.postimage.org/trkr7jrvd/Bach_Sonatas_Partitas_Violin_Shumsky_vinyl_box.jpg)


Someone in another forum wrote this about Sumsky´s Bach:

..... the "Jewish folksy attitude" comment.... a comment made of Oscar Shumsky's playing, which is my favourite recording of the sonatas and partitas. To me his playing has a hint, just a hint, of Klezmer style in his playing.

I do not know the recording, so I can not tell.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo) - Oscar Shumsky!
Post by: Scion7 on February 27, 2012, 10:20:01 PM
Someone in another forum wrote this about Sumsky´s Bach:

..... the "Jewish folksy attitude" comment.... a comment made of Oscar Shumsky's playing,
which is my favourite recording of the sonatas and partitas.
To me his playing has a hint, just a hint, of Klezmer style in his playing.


I do not know the recording, so I can not tell.

I don't know what that means when playing Bach?  I certainly don't hear it, nor in Shumsky's complete set of Mozart sonatas for violin & piano,
or this 3-LP box set of Kreisler rec. 1983 (whom he studied under):

(http://img840.imageshack.us/img840/3465/shumskykreislermhsvinyl.jpg)

now available on various CD's - amazon, cduniverse, etc.

As a boy Shumsky was shipped all over under various teachers - he's stated that Kreisler was the main influence on him.

Anyway, if you give his 1979 rec. Bach sonatas a chance, I doubt you'll be disappointed.   :)

What Gramophone said:

Oscar Shumsky's tone is beautiful, his intonation faultless. He surmounts the huge difficulties in the most masterly way, yet there is tension where tension is required, for instance in the fugue in the A minor Sonata which he takes a little faster than Ricci, generating more excitement. On the other hand the Andante is pleasurably relaxed. He drives the finale along with energy, as he does all the finales and indeed all the fugues, though his approach to some movements is inclined to be a little too aggressive, for instance in the Gavotte en Rondeau in the E major Partita, and even in the Sarabande of the D minor Sonata, though the quiet end here is effective. Shumsky does in fact make more contrast than Ricci between Bach's loud and soft markings. His rubato is consistently musical in several of the first movements and notably in the famous D minor Chaconne, which receives an outstanding performance. In the Gigue immediately before it Bach slurs the occasional quavers in threes, but Shumsky slurs only the first two notes in each case. Similarly, in the E major Partita he plays a number of the slurred quavers in the first minuet staccato. In both movements Ayo shows that Bach's markings need no adjustment, and he attacks the vigorous movements less relentlessly. Both players are marvellous in the E major Loure, Shumsky playing it softly and Ayo very softly indeed. I prefer Ayo here, as also in the rather unresponsive start to the C major Sonata, but Shumsky is more impressive in the colossal fugue which comes next, as indeed he is in all the fugues. Ayo has in general a cooler approach than Shumsky to these sonatas and partitas, and much cooler than Ricci, and some will find this more in keeping with the period of the music. But Shumsky's version is very fine indeed, and consistently grips your attention. The recording quality is superb, slightly better than it is on the Ayo discs and much better than on Ricci's, which are a little too resonant. Also Shumsky does play all those repeats. Strongly recommended.   -R. F.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: milk on May 12, 2013, 12:17:36 AM
I only have one recording of this set: Podger. I feel undernourished and exposed. Seems like there is great praise for Matthews in this forum. However, I see universal praise for Mullova on the internets. I'm leaning towards Mullova. Should I reconsider? What say ye? 
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: DavidRoss on May 12, 2013, 03:24:43 AM
Podger's could well be my desert island recording of this desert island set of works, but I like Mullova's complete set on Onyx very much, too. (See my comments about it on page 2 of this thread.) I also like Zehetmair ... and Faust ... and Fulkerson ... and several others including the old standards, Milstein and Grumiaux, who still hold up though they hardly rule the roost any longer (IMO). And the chances are very good that one of my next CD purchases will be Beyer's S&Ps.

Time was when we had to seek opinions from others before risking a purchase. But thanks to the online music services today, we can hear most potential purchases for ourselves first. Nearly all of those mentioned above -- including Mullova -- are available on Mog, which means they're probably on Spotify, too.

I've never heard Matthews -- in fact, hadn't even heard of her -- but if Dave and Don both recommend her, then she's worth hearing. Happily I just found her recording on Mog, too, so will remedy my ignorance in the very near future!  ;)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: milk on May 12, 2013, 03:57:49 AM
Podger's could well be my desert island recording of this desert island set of works, but I like Mullova's complete set on Onyx very much, too. (See my comments about it on page 2 of this thread.) I also like Zehetmair ... and Faust ... and Fulkerson ... and several others including the old standards, Milstein and Grumiaux, who still hold up though they hardly rule the roost any longer (IMO). And the chances are very good that one of my next CD purchases will be Beyer's S&Ps.

Time was when we had to seek opinions from others before risking a purchase. But thanks to the online music services today, we can hear most potential purchases for ourselves first. Nearly all of those mentioned above -- including Mullova -- are available on Mog, which means they're probably on Spotify, too.

I've never heard Matthews -- in fact, hadn't even heard of her -- but if Dave and Don both recommend her, then she's worth hearing. Happily I just found her recording on Mog, too, so will remedy my ignorance in the very near future!  ;)
Thanks for the comments. Yes, the praise for Matthews is through the roof so I'm going to pause before deciding. The praisers are rock-solid reliable. I'm curious if any of them have considered the Mullova. Honestly, I just like reading what they have to say. It helps me to learn something more about what I'm listening to. I was just listening to the Podger and I like it very much but have nothing to compare it to. When it comes to violin, I prefer the baroque sound; I just don't like vibrato very much. But I haven't spent much time with Bach (or any classical) sans keyboard (but more so the cello suites).
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Bogey on May 12, 2013, 04:14:08 AM
I'll throw out another set of performances.  I have this on newly pressed vinyl and the sound and performance are top-shelf:

(https://store.acousticsounds.com/images/medium/AFON_025__55788__01152009124837-9224.jpg)

and will be ordering this one in the coming weeks:

(http://store.acousticsounds.com/images/medium/AFON_033__73461__03082011032430-3209.jpg)

You can sweep up the full set on this SACD:

(http://store.acousticsounds.com/images/medium/CFON_061_SA__55776__01152009124836-332.jpg)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: DavidRoss on May 12, 2013, 04:20:39 AM
I'm listening to Matthews via Mog now. It's lovely but austere and restrained, quite a contrast to Podger's dancing rhythms: Bach as the contemplative churchman -- not the reverential supplicant of Grumiaux's conception, but certainly not Bach as the swinging jazz man in old Leipzig's after-hours hot spots.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: milk on May 12, 2013, 05:07:39 AM
I'm listening to Matthews via Mog now. It's lovely but austere and restrained, quite a contrast to Podger's dancing rhythms: Bach as the contemplative churchman -- not the reverential supplicant of Grumiaux's conception, but certainly not Bach as the swinging jazz man in old Leipzig's after-hours hot spots.
I just downloaded the Matthews and, comparing it with Podger, one thing I notice right away is how very different the instruments sound. My first reaction is that Matthews' instrument is much tinnier, and a little less pleasant, sounding than Podger's. I may need a pep talk for Matthews...Or an intervention. I want to like it to the degree I value the 20 bucks I just spent on it.   
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: DavidRoss on May 12, 2013, 05:24:50 AM
I just downloaded the Matthews and, comparing it with Podger, one thing I notice right away is how very different the instruments sound. My first reaction is that Matthews' instrument is much tinnier, and a little less pleasant, sounding than Podger's. I may need a pep talk for Matthews...Or an intervention. I want to like it to the degree I value the 20 bucks I just spent on it.   
$5/month gets you a subscription to Mog. (And Spotify has a free option.) Though Mog and similar services have saved me from buying a lot of things I wouldn't have liked, they haven't really saved me any money because they let me hear so many things that I like so much that I buy them even though I wasn't interested in them!
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: milk on May 12, 2013, 05:28:06 AM
Well, at the risk of trying people's patience with my hasty comments, I'll say one more thing before I leave off. I'm  Just comparing 1001 with my inexperienced and untrained ears: Podger seems to emphasize beauty and smoothness. I already feel that Matthews is a bit darker and even more dramatic. It is very different. I can see how Podger could be described as Jazzier and lighter, Matthews as churchier and heavier (a movement towards more profundity?). I'm not sure I'd say "restrained." I guess if one wants variety in ones music collection (which I do) then these are two good ones to have. OK. I'll spend some time contemplating these recordings. 
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: milk on May 12, 2013, 05:30:20 AM
$5/month gets you a subscription to Mog. (And Spotify has a free option.) Though Mog and similar services have saved me from buying a lot of things I wouldn't have liked, they haven't really saved me any money because they let me hear so many things that I like so much that I buy them even though I wasn't interested in them!
I have an obsessive need to possess things (even if only digitally). But maybe I should get over it! 
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: DavidRoss on May 12, 2013, 05:44:27 AM
Well, at the risk of trying people's patience with my hasty comments, I'll say one more thing before I leave off. I'm  Just comparing 1001 with my inexperienced and untrained ears: Podger seems to emphasize beauty and smoothness. I already feel that Matthews is a bit darker and even more dramatic. It is very different. I can see how Podger could be described as Jazzier and lighter, Matthews as churchier and heavier (a movement towards more profundity?). I'm not sure I'd say "restrained." I guess if one wants variety in ones music collection (which I do) then these are two good ones to have. OK. I'll spend some time contemplating these recordings. 
Podger expresses Bach's hip, joyful, love of music like no one else, unlike "old-school" reverential musicians who straitjacket him as the bewigged churchman trembling before the awesomeness of God. But Bach's God isn't distant and neither is his music, they're right here with us, smiling and laughing and dancing and clapping us on the back -- and Podger gets that.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: milk on May 12, 2013, 06:34:41 AM
Podger expresses Bach's hip, joyful, love of music like no one else, unlike "old-school" reverential musicians who straitjacket him as the bewigged churchman trembling before the awesomeness of God. But Bach's God isn't distant and neither is his music, they're right here with us, smiling and laughing and dancing and clapping us on the back -- and Podger gets that.
I can really see what you're saying. A student of mine (I'm a teacher) once told me that she didn't like Bach because she thought he was too severe. I never entered the music in any formal setting or developed those associations. Anyway, it does seem that Podger has a lot of fun with the music. Podger's enthusiasm is infectious. But I'm going to try to appreciate Matthew's rather different approach if I can. 
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: DavidA on August 30, 2013, 11:46:00 AM
Ibragimova is special!
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: SonicMan46 on August 31, 2013, 06:13:26 AM
Ibragimova is special!

Seems that the ladies top some of the recent performances of these works - Ingrid Matthews recording was brought up about 2 years ago w/ a lot of positive member endorsements - yet, another consideration - :)  Dave

(http://giradman.smugmug.com/photos/1166535176_NqbMm-D.jpg)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: North Star on August 31, 2013, 11:52:44 AM
Seems that the ladies top some of the recent performances of these works - Ingrid Matthews recording was brought up about 2 years ago w/ a lot of positive member endorsements - yet, another consideration - :)  Dave
Indeed, and add Viktoria Mullova & Rachel Podger to that.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: mc ukrneal on August 31, 2013, 08:09:07 PM
I don't understand much from solo violin but I'll always keep this next to my Grumiaux(it felt like devaluating Grimaux while seeing what I type but it's not)


Just FYI for those who may be looking for Ibragimova - this set was just added at Berkshire for $13.98.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Sean on August 31, 2013, 08:25:42 PM
I bought the Oscar Shumsky on LP and it's hard to beat, a very tough and ruthless Bachian perspective and with a technique to match; other recordings can seem feebly emotional in comparison.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: mc ukrneal on August 31, 2013, 08:59:24 PM
I have Martzy, which interestingly was recommended by someone at GMG, but no mention is made of her in this thread! Not having much experience with the piece, I can say the playing is certainly high quality. The sound isn't the most modern, but totally listenable (and even pretty good considering the period it was recorded).

Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: trung224 on September 01, 2013, 04:44:27 AM
I have Martzy, which interestingly was recommended by someone at GMG, but no mention is made of her in this thread! Not having much experience with the piece, I can say the playing is certainly high quality. The sound isn't the most modern, but totally listenable (and even pretty good considering the period it was recorded).


     I have the EMI incarnation of this set, and this is  one of the most personal reading of this pieces I have heard. Slow (like many old-school performances) but really intense . While in certain movements it becomes somewhat ponderous, but still superlative when revealing the dark side of this pieces, like the famous Chaconne in D minor
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Itullian on September 04, 2013, 05:52:34 AM
Milstein for me.  :)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Tyson on September 04, 2013, 06:16:12 PM
Podger or Faust for me!
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: milk on September 07, 2013, 05:59:46 AM
(http://ecx.images-amazon.com/images/I/41-eXrEB4wL._SL500_AA280_.jpg)
I mentioned this in another thread. I'm really enjoying this recording. I'm very curious what others think of it.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on October 05, 2013, 04:06:39 AM
I've been listening to a lot of this music lately, including many of the recordings which people have praised here. But the two which, so far, have struck a chord with me the most have, as far as I can see, never or rarely been discussed. So I thought I would just post this to see if anyone else has similar tastes to me in this music. They are Helene Schmitt's intensely un-dance-like performances  on baroque violin on Alpha, and Felix Ayo's extremely modest and somehow sincere and direct performances on Philips -- now re-released by Archivmusik.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on October 05, 2013, 12:12:11 PM
Yes I like Schmitt.  More about the music, and less about the performer, than some of the other candidates, while being a good modern performance and recording on a baroque-style instrument.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on October 06, 2013, 12:23:44 PM
Yes I like Schmitt.  More about the music, and less about the performer, than some of the other candidates, while being a good modern performance and recording on a baroque-style instrument.

One thing she does is apply so much expressive rubato, rhythmic rubato, that there is practically no element of dance left. Indeed there's sometimes hardly any any pulse running through the music at all. I feel she's one of the most extreme expressive Baroque musicians that I've ever heard, maybe more so than David Cates for example. She's the Lena Jacobson of the violin.

I wonder how "casual" all this rubato is. Do you have the liner notes? (I have it through spotify)  Does she write about this? Does she see herself as a romantic musician who just happens to use a period instrument? Or is she doing stuff which is authentic practice?

Those questions may be a bit too scholarly. I find what she does very enjoyable to listen to, eloquent (speaking rather than singing, which I like), however personal a statement it may be.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on October 19, 2013, 10:07:44 AM
Does anyone here prefer S Kuijken's second recording to the first?
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: xochitl on April 10, 2015, 03:14:25 AM
i just wanted to say: ida haendel's recording has totally rearranged my bach world! there's things here i've never encountered anywhere else...a concentration and intensity bordering on the perverse but totally stripping the expression down to the structure. and her sound? oh god fugly and decrepit but fascinating and magnetic. yeah, i know. and her phrasing? revelatory. like god speaking. i cried several times throughout.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on April 10, 2015, 09:09:22 AM
i just wanted to say: ida haendel's recording has totally rearranged my bach world! there's things here i've never encountered anywhere else...a concentration and intensity bordering on the perverse but totally stripping the expression down to the structure. and her sound? oh god fugly and decrepit but fascinating and magnetic. yeah, i know. and her phrasing? revelatory. like god speaking. i cried several times throughout.

I'm inclined to agree with you about Ida Haendel.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: betterthanfine on April 14, 2015, 02:40:12 PM
i just wanted to say: ida haendel's recording has totally rearranged my bach world! there's things here i've never encountered anywhere else...a concentration and intensity bordering on the perverse but totally stripping the expression down to the structure. and her sound? oh god fugly and decrepit but fascinating and magnetic. yeah, i know. and her phrasing? revelatory. like god speaking. i cried several times throughout.

This sounds like a must hear. Is this the recording you're talking about?




Also, any thoughts on this somewhat recent release by Christine Busch on Herreweghe's Phi label?

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0003/485/MI0003485424.jpg)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: North Star on April 14, 2015, 02:46:54 PM
Here's Christine Busch's Chaconne
https://www.youtube.com/v/8xNdrEF5o60
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: San Antone on April 14, 2015, 03:37:35 PM
When I hear Bach solo violin playing like that it reminds me exactly why I tell people that I prefer these works to the cello suites.  Thanks for the clip.

 :)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: xochitl on April 15, 2015, 01:58:08 AM
This sounds like a must hear. Is this the recording you're talking about?


thats the one
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on April 15, 2015, 02:53:18 AM
Haendel's been in my 'rejects' pile for 15 years or more.
Prompted by these recent comments I dug her out for a bit of a listen.
 :(
Sorry, can't agree.  Scratchy tone, close unflattering acoustic, plodding performance.  I don't think anyone's missing much here.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on April 15, 2015, 06:38:30 AM
Do you think it's the sign of a really "great" performance, that it divides opinions like that?
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on April 16, 2015, 10:51:02 PM
Well, focussing just on Haendel's performance and ignoring the recording issues (which is difficult for me to do) - hers is certainly a very serious-minded approach, and that's maybe just a bit unfashionable these days, in secular Bach.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on April 17, 2015, 06:35:48 AM
Well, focussing just on Haendel's performance and ignoring the recording issues (which is difficult for me to do) - hers is certainly a very serious-minded approach, and that's maybe just a bit unfashionable these days, in secular Bach.

Do you not think Holloway is also serious? it's another favourite of mine.

Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on May 19, 2015, 05:42:14 PM
Martzy, Menuhin, and Grumiaux are my favorites among the recordings I own. I have a difficult time getting excited about either Heifetz or Milstein in this repertoire; they do not seem to have much feeling for this music, and their performances seem like dry exercises. No one can equal Martzy for sheer beauty of tone in this repertoire IMO.

A recent discovery is Leonid Kogan. I cannot find these issued commercially as a complete set;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu7Hxjy8LYc
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on May 20, 2015, 10:10:21 PM

A recent discovery is Leonid Kogan. I cannot find these issued commercially as a complete set;

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Fu7Hxjy8LYc

This is a very rare recording, if it is indeed authentic. How do we know it really is Leonid Kogan?
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on May 21, 2015, 11:37:16 AM
I don't know; maybe it was really Joyce Hatto.  :D  Seriously, that is a good question for any YouTube video, especially for ones with no actual video (picture only). I saw that he also recorded the Partita No. 3, which is available on a CD with one of the Prokofiev sonatas. It is really a shame that Oistrakh never recorded these (AFAIK).
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: San Antone on May 21, 2015, 11:47:39 AM
I very much love these works; even more than the cello suites.  I have been listening to this recording and think it very fine.

Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on May 21, 2015, 01:06:02 PM
It is really a shame that Oistrakh never recorded these (AFAIK).

He recorded the first sonata. This was BTW my introduction to this work.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: xochitl on May 24, 2015, 03:36:12 AM
just heard that oistrakh recording out of curiosity as ive never really been exposed to his violinism and it's all kinds of awesome!
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: XB-70 Valkyrie on May 24, 2015, 06:05:21 PM
I was listening to more of the Milstein EMI set, and I have to take back my previous comment; actually it is an excellent recording--technically stunning and very musical. The sound and Milstein's tone are both a bit difficult to take, especially at first, as they seem quite brittle and scratchy. No one is a bigger fan of historic monos than me, but there certainly are better sounding solo violin recordings from this time period.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Pat B on May 25, 2015, 10:33:07 AM
I was listening to more of the Milstein EMI set, and I have to take back my previous comment; actually it is an excellent recording--technically stunning and very musical. The sound and Milstein's tone are both a bit difficult to take, especially at first, as they seem quite brittle and scratchy. No one is a bigger fan of historic monos than me, but there certainly are better sounding solo violin recordings from this time period.

:)

I haven't listened to these in a while, but I found his DG set to be a similar performance but in 1970s sound instead of 1950s sound. IIRC the biggest difference is that the DG recording is much more reverberant, which in this case I like, but not everybody does.

There is a video of him playing the Chaconne at his last recital in 1986. It's not my favorite version, but it is better than many live performances and shows that he never lost it.

After your previous post I listened to Grumiaux's Chaconne and thought it was in the same vein as (my recollection of) Milstein.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on August 07, 2015, 08:32:14 PM


Also, any thoughts on this somewhat recent release by Christine Busch on Herreweghe's Phi label?

(http://cps-static.rovicorp.com/3/JPG_400/MI0003/485/MI0003485424.jpg)

Possibly overarticulated, like Chorzempa in the organ music. The result is structurally clear. Slowish tempos make the performances seem reflective. I'm glad to have heard it.



Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on August 18, 2015, 07:14:06 AM
I've been listening to a lot of these recently, while planning a possible Blind Comparison later in the year - as has been remarked before in this thread, it's unusual to find a version of this music that isn't enjoyable - I think currently my three favourites are Ibragimova, Fischer and Beyer.  But even if none of those three were available, it would be very easy to pick three more that are excellent, and then three more again.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Wakefield on August 19, 2015, 04:08:37 AM
A week ago I learned that the sonatas & partitas performed by Stefano Montanari, originally released by the Italian magazine Amadeus, will be re-released around October or November on the Spanish label Cantus.

I think it's a good news.  :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p0lxYNBoD4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwr8z4cRRec
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Que on August 19, 2015, 08:38:27 AM
A week ago I learned that the sonatas & partitas performed by Stefano Montanari, originally released by the Italian magazine Amadeus, will be re-released around October or November on the Spanish label Cantus.

I think it's a good news.  :)

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_p0lxYNBoD4

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vwr8z4cRRec

Sound like great news! :)

Q
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on August 23, 2015, 05:47:01 AM
Noteworthy that for a limited time, we have Ibragimova playing the Sonatas and Partitas on BBC iPlayer, from recent late-night performances at the Proms in the Royal Albert Hall. 
The slow movements are played with great serenity and introspection, and visually she cuts a small and lonely figure in a vast darkened space - though actually the audience are very close in these concerts.  I can't help wondering how it sounded in some of the remoter parts of that cavernous hall - I've known the Leningrad PO sound underpowered in the RAH!

Links (nb for about 4 weeks only):
Sonata 1 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p02ww7pf/bbc-proms-2015-season-bach-sonata-no-1-in-g-minor-for-solo-violin-bwv-1001)
Partita 1 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p02ww7pm/bbc-proms-2015-season-bach-partita-no-1-in-b-minor-for-solo-violin-bwv-1002)
Sonata 2 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p02ww7pr/bbc-proms-2015-season-bach-sonata-no-2-in-a-minor-for-solo-violin-bwv-1003)
the remaining 3 haven't yet been broadcast on TV (scheduled next Thursday I think) but should become available on iPlayer after that broadcast.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on August 23, 2015, 06:59:04 AM
Links (nb for about 4 weeks only):
Sonata 1 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p02ww7pf/bbc-proms-2015-season-bach-sonata-no-1-in-g-minor-for-solo-violin-bwv-1001)
Partita 1 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p02ww7pm/bbc-proms-2015-season-bach-partita-no-1-in-b-minor-for-solo-violin-bwv-1002)
Sonata 2 (http://www.bbc.co.uk/iplayer/episode/p02ww7pr/bbc-proms-2015-season-bach-sonata-no-2-in-a-minor-for-solo-violin-bwv-1003)

Dommage! Disponible uniquement au Royaume-Uni.  :( :(
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: kishnevi on August 23, 2015, 05:07:47 PM
Dommage! Disponible uniquement au Royaume-Uni.  :( :(

Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on August 24, 2015, 03:18:40 AM



I own the recording.
But I would have loved to hear the live performance.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Wakefield on August 24, 2015, 06:24:22 AM
I own the recording.
But I would have loved to hear the live performance.

I'm cur¡ous, Poul. Do you prefer Ibragimova or Wallfisch playing the S&P? IIRC, when Ibragimova's set was released, Wallfisch disappeared from the Hyperion's catalogue. I think even the economic version (Dyad) is OOP now.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on August 25, 2015, 01:33:34 AM
Dommage! Disponible uniquement au Royaume-Uni.  :( :(

Oh I didn't realise.  I'm sorry to hear that.  :(
It seems to me her approach and timings etc are largely unchanged, the slow movements are spellbinding, the fastest ones inevitably contain a very few inaccuracies, nothing of any significance - but mainly the visual effect is quite gripping - very theatrical.

(http://www.aukadia.net/pix/Folder.jpg)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Herman on August 25, 2015, 10:16:39 AM
Has the Onyx recording by Viktoria Mullova been mentioned? It's very good.

Sorry to say I have yet to hear anything by Ibragimova that's really good rather than maybe promising.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on August 26, 2015, 02:09:11 AM
I'm cur¡ous, Poul. Do you prefer Ibragimova or Wallfisch playing the S&P? IIRC, when Ibragimova's set was released, Wallfisch disappeared from the Hyperion's catalogue. I think even the economic version (Dyad) is OOP now.

I had not listened to either of these since long, so I revisited the first half of Wallfisch's recording to day.

As far as I recall, Ibragimova's interpretation is youthful, perfectionist and kind of cautious.

Wallfisch's interpretation on the other hand is flowing and eloquent, with a slight tendency to over-interpretation in the fugue of the a-minor sonata.
And I do not like, that she skips some of the repeats.

Do I need to prefer one to the other?

Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Wakefield on August 26, 2015, 04:37:17 AM
I had not listened to either of these since long, so I revisited the first half of Wallfisch's recording to day.

As far as I recall, Ibragimova's interpretation is youthful, perfectionist and kind of cautious.

Wallfisch's interpretation on the other hand is flowing and eloquent, with a slight tendency to over-interpretation in the fugue of the a-minor sonata.
And I do not like, that she skips some of the repeats.

Do I need to prefer one to the other?

Thanks!

And there is no need of preferring one to another, of course.  :)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on August 26, 2015, 05:40:55 AM
Has the Onyx recording by Viktoria Mullova been mentioned? It's very good.

First mentioned here in April 2009, and periodically since.  It is indeed among the best I think - but there are so many excellent recordings ...
http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,4964.msg301047.html#msg301047 (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,4964.msg301047.html#msg301047)

Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on August 26, 2015, 05:51:14 AM
Another still from the concert:

(http://www.aukadia.net/pix/ali.jpg)

I watched the 3rd movement (Andante) from the 2nd Suite twice - deceptively simple-sounding music, but I still can't see how it's done.  That is, I can hear what's going on but I can't see it, it's like a trick of legerdemain.  In an accompanying interview she mentions that this is one of her favourite movements and "you have to be two people".
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on August 31, 2015, 05:27:45 AM
Well I was unable to watch much of the 2nd broadcast (P2, S3, P3) because my wife threatened to leave home  ???

She usually only does that if I'm thoughtless enough to play Reich or Glass at high volume.  >:D

But there were some pretty bad moments, especially in the 3rd Sonata, and the sound balance didn't help by being over-close, probably because the audience was being a bit noisy.  The 3rd Partita however went a lot better.

(http://www.aukadia.net/pix/ali4.jpg)      (http://www.aukadia.net/pix/ali6.jpg)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on December 02, 2016, 07:47:54 AM
Generally quite far towards the slow end of the spectrum (only Huggett is consistently slower, and there is another one in round 2 that is a similar pace) - contemplative and 'free', rather like an Indian musician playing an Alap (I listen to quite a lot of Indian music, when I can tear myself away from Bach).  Not that I am any kind of expert, on either.
I seem to have acquired this taste, in the last couple of years, for the 'free-er' versions - probably also why I like Beyer, described by one person as "outside of time, like an improvisation".

(Well, at least my 3rd and last horse is still running  :-X )

And I had never come across Kaakinen before either, until I was trawling around last autumn looking for 'jokers' to sprinkle into the comparison - but have listened several times since then, she's definitely my 'go to' for this music at the moment.

I was just killing time browsing your thread and saw this, and it made me wonder if you've heard Helene Schmitt and whether you like it. Re Kaakinen-Pitch my superficial impression is that there's something a bit too forceful and emphatic about her style to be something I like, but aim probably not really doing her justice.

Helene Schmitt is inclined to be slow and is also rather delicate. She style is very (too?) inflected, but I don't think it's random inflection. 
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on December 02, 2016, 10:52:16 AM
Yes I like Schmitt, but I like several others more.  I'm not really very discriminating, I'm happy to listen to most performances of this music.  and would take any one of half-a-dozen to my desert island.  Incidentally we had this conversation 3 years ago  ;) see reply #172 in this thread.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on October 31, 2017, 03:28:48 AM
This is worth a listen if you don't mind the modern instrument.


Tetzlaff's earlier recording on Hanssler fell at the first hurdle in the recent blind comparison, though not disgraced, he scored the same as Beyer and Kaakinen,and slightly higher than Schmitt, drawing comments such as:
"Oldfashioned and conventional, rather unremarkable."
"in the Gigue the performer almost makes it sound like a cadenza in a concerto."


This new recording is a marked improvement I think.  He doesn't indulge much in rubato, but does vary the dynamics a lot (and to a lesser extent, the tone).  Mostly he plays this music quietly, with a sweet rather feminine tone.  The fugues are very impressive, taken rather briskly and with everything clearly delineated with a very sure touch.  My initial thought on listening to Sonata 2 (which is where I usually start, when assessing an unfamiliar recording) was 'similar to Julia Fischer' but on listening further that's not really fair to either performer, they are quite different to be sure, but nevertheless that is the general area where we are here.

In an accompanying sleevenote at one point Tetzlaff suggests that the Chaconne (Partita 2) and the first two movements of Sonata 3 can be grouped together as a sort of triptych, and that Bach himself encourages this by starting Sonata 3 on the same page of the score as the end of the Chaconne.  Well as to that, I think Bach always was a bit averse to white space when laying out his scores.  ;)  But it is interesting to listen to these three movements in this light.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on March 28, 2018, 05:40:58 AM
(https://dnan0fzjxntrj.cloudfront.net/Pictures/480xany/8/5/3/1853_gunar-letzbor.jpg)

This interesting recording by Gunar Letzbor makes me think of the Bach recording by de Neve and Agsteribbe, in that both were inspired by contemporary ideas about the affective meaning of the music, in the latter case it was keys, in the case of Letzbor it is dances. And in both cases the result is something which confounds expectations of what this music sounds like. I haven't heard the accompanying sonata disc but I will go out of my way to get it.

By the way the recording booklet makes a big deal out of the sound engineering - this must have been Michel Bernstein's last recording and very good it is too. Having said that, the real interest for me is in the challenging interpretation. (Kind of the opposite of Todd's favourite Sonig Tchakerian)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on March 28, 2018, 08:16:41 AM
This is worth a listen if you don't mind the modern instrument.

Tetzlaff's earlier recording on Hanssler fell at the first hurdle in the recent blind comparison, though not disgraced, he scored the same as Beyer and Kaakinen,and slightly higher than Schmitt, drawing comments such as:
"Oldfashioned and conventional, rather unremarkable."
"in the Gigue the performer almost makes it sound like a cadenza in a concerto."


This new recording is a marked improvement I think.  He doesn't indulge much in rubato, but does vary the dynamics a lot (and to a lesser extent, the tone).  Mostly he plays this music quietly, with a sweet rather feminine tone.  The fugues are very impressive, taken rather briskly and with everything clearly delineated with a very sure touch.  My initial thought on listening to Sonata 2 (which is where I usually start, when assessing an unfamiliar recording) was 'similar to Julia Fischer' but on listening further that's not really fair to either performer, they are quite different to be sure, but nevertheless that is the general area where we are here.

In an accompanying sleevenote at one point Tetzlaff suggests that the Chaconne (Partita 2) and the first two movements of Sonata 3 can be grouped together as a sort of triptych, and that Bach himself encourages this by starting Sonata 3 on the same page of the score as the end of the Chaconne.  Well as to that, I think Bach always was a bit averse to white space when laying out his scores.  ;)  But it is interesting to listen to these three movements in this light.

But how does it compare to his first recording (for Virgin)?
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on March 29, 2018, 02:06:12 AM
I wasn't aware of that one, assuming it's different from the Hanssler recording.  I can only reiterate that the new recording is modern in sound and somewhat delicate in style and, I think, recommendable, but not if you seek something hardcore like Ibragimova, Van Dael or Matthews (to cherrypick three of several).
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on March 29, 2018, 03:49:56 AM
I wasn't aware of that one, assuming it's different from the Hanssler recording.  I can only reiterate that the new recording is modern in sound and somewhat delicate in style and, I think, recommendable, but not if you seek something hardcore like Ibragimova, Van Dael or Matthews (to cherrypick three of several).

It is indeed different from the Hânssler, and very sweet. Its  "angelic" pureness reminds me of Ryo Terakado's set. Maybe he returned to this style with the Ondine recording.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: San Antone on March 29, 2018, 04:02:55 AM
(https://dnan0fzjxntrj.cloudfront.net/Pictures/480xany/8/5/3/1853_gunar-letzbor.jpg)

This interesting recording by Gunar Letzbor makes me think of the Bach recording by de Neve and Agsteribbe, in that both were inspired by contemporary ideas about the affective meaning of the music, in the latter case it was keys, in the case of Letzbor it is dances. And in both cases the result is something which confounds expectations of what this music sounds like. I haven't heard the accompanying sonata disc but I will go out of my way to get it.

By the way the recording booklet makes a big deal out of the sound engineering - this must have been Michel Bernstein's last recording and very good it is too. Having said that, the real interest for me is in the challenging interpretation. (Kind of the opposite of Todd's favourite Sonig Tchakerian)

I have been listening to these recordings ever since you posted the above.  Very interesting: he plays with a rustic or peasant style, quite rough at times.  But enjoyable.  Thanks for the recommendation.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on March 29, 2018, 04:26:35 AM
he plays with a rustic or peasant style, quite rough at times.

This is true, and it's something I've noticed more after I made that post yesterday in fact, there is a visceral aspect, you're aware of the horsehair on catgut, or whatever it is, and this is what he makes a big deal of in the booklet essay. He said he wanted the listener's perception to be the same as his perception as he's playing. He's an interesting musician, I recommend his Muffat, I don't know his Biber yet.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Kontrapunctus on March 29, 2018, 08:33:59 AM
Has anyone heard this one?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51hDsZIPwiL._SS500.jpg)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on March 29, 2018, 09:55:27 AM
Has anyone heard this one?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51hDsZIPwiL._SS500.jpg)

I just listened to 1004 and 1005. Intimate; restrained; austere; small scale and and at times cute and pretty; some unexpected hesitations, silences.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Kontrapunctus on March 29, 2018, 12:51:48 PM
I just listened to 1004 and 1005. Intimate; restrained; austere; small scale and and at times cute and pretty; some unexpected hesitations, silences.
Thanks. I think I'll stay with Milstein (DG), Kagan, and Grumiaux!
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Kontrapunctus on March 29, 2018, 01:11:11 PM
One really has to wonder about Amazon at times. I just did a search for "Oleg Kagan Bach" and got this response:
We found 0 results for "Oleg Kaftan Beach"  ???
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: André on March 29, 2018, 01:21:21 PM
Has anyone heard this one?

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51hDsZIPwiL._SS500.jpg)

My assessment is slightly more positive than Mandryka’s, altough I recognize these very qualities in Chung’s work here. They shouldn’t be construed as equivalent to unassertive or devoid of personality. Austere is cerrtainly the catchword here. Still, I prefer Ehnes, Grumiaux and Haendel (Ida).
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Baron Scarpia on March 29, 2018, 01:23:27 PM
One really has to wonder about Amazon at times. I just did a search for "Oleg Kagan Bach" and got this response:
We found 0 results for "Oleg Kaftan Beach"  ???

You didn't notice the autocorrects.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Kontrapunctus on March 29, 2018, 01:44:20 PM
You didn't notice the autocorrects.
It didn’t perform any autocorrects.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Baron Scarpia on March 29, 2018, 01:56:28 PM
It didn’t perform any autocorrects.

I reproduced your search, and you are right, no auto-correct was indicated. Bizarre.

Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: San Antone on March 29, 2018, 01:57:33 PM
I reproduced your search, and you are right, no auto-correct was indicated. Bizarre.

Yeah, me too.  I did the same search in google and found the Amazon page:

https://www.amazon.com/Bach-Violin-Sonatas-Partitas-BWV1001-1006/dp/B003JFFKY4
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Baron Scarpia on March 29, 2018, 01:59:56 PM
Yeah, me too.  I did the same search in google and found the Amazon page:

https://www.amazon.com/Bach-Violin-Sonatas-Partitas-BWV1001-1006/dp/B003JFFKY4

And Amazon found appropriate content if I searched for Oleg Bach, but not Kagan Bach. They must have some sort of internal lexical processing that chokes on Kagan.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on March 29, 2018, 08:11:06 PM
My assessment is slightly more positive than Mandryka’s, altough I recognize these very qualities in Chung’s work here. They shouldn’t be construed as equivalent to unassertive or devoid of personality. Austere is cerrtainly the catchword here. Still, I prefer Ehnes, Grumiaux and Haendel (Ida).


I really didn't mean what I said to be negative at all.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: André on March 30, 2018, 05:05:39 AM
I didn't think there was a negative tone in your remarks. But maybe others might have thought otherwise. :-X
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on April 09, 2018, 04:19:48 AM
I sampled the tracks on Amazon and was interested in what I heard, but will wait on purchasing.  There appears to be something of a trend in more recent Bach recordings which demonstrate slower, looser and, for lack of a better term, atypical interpretations of Bach: Anton Batagov, Wolfgang Rubsam, Viola de Hoog, Thomas Demenga (atypical in other ways), Gunar Letzbor.  And I've noticed that while I "love" them on first hearing over time they lose much of their attraction.

In your list, there's something very fundamental in common between Rubsam and Letzbor. They both believe that mainstream HIP is wrong about how to interpret the score. With Rubsam the error is about voicing, he has written about it on the website, along with Keith Hill and possibly Christoph Wolff too. With Letzbor it's to do with bowing, and in particular to do with the influence of Georg Muffat on JSB


Quote from: Gunnar Letzbor in an essay for the booklet of his solo Bach CDs
I am repeatedly astonished to see that many early music specialists, to the present day, stay well clear of Muffat. Is it not possible for us to assume that Bach’s dance music, strongly imitative of the French style as it is, was played according to the performance practice described by Muffat? But that would render impossible many things that are still heard everywhere! The special types of bowing and bow divisions make overly fast tempi impossible, for they strongly structure the melodies and give each figure an especially rhythmical character. The melos recedes into the background, allowing rhythmic components to appear. at the same time, the dance bowing is a help, allowing the formal structure inherent in the dances to emerge naturally.

One senses a certain initial irritation when playing dances in the manner described by Muffat for the first time. The results sound awkward, stiff and choppy; the feeling of bowing is as if one were about to lose the stick at any moment. a great deal of practice, patience and zest for experimentation is required in order to arrive at a satisfactory result . . .

Should one therefore play Bach’s solo suites with French bowing rules today? Let us approach the music in the way that a virtuoso of the Baroque period would have done! in his execution, a soloist surely showed consideration for the special characteristics of soloistic violin playing. the bowings are essential for playing together in the orchestra, but soloistic interpretation must be executed in a considerably more differentiated manner. Strict adherence to the rules would hinder an exciting interpretation, indeed render it almost impossible. This does not mean, however, that one can simply disregard all the rules. As a foundation, the rules continue to apply. They have arisen out of practical music-making and were developed by important violinists!

I like what Letzbor does, and I like what Rubsam does. I feel the opposite of you: I feel they grow in interest on repeated listening, rather than diminish.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on April 16, 2018, 01:53:25 AM
I listened to the Boris Begelman set last week.  Issued in 2017.
The set is titled Sei Solo making much of the "you're on your own, pal" play on words at the head of the score.


Moscow-born but based in Italy, according to the sleevenote Begelman has been featured soloist with several of Italy's specialist baroque ensembles.  He plays a violin dating from the 1790s.

He's pretty far along the severe, zero vibrato end of the performance spectrum, hardcore, inhabiting the same sort of space as Ingrid Matthews or Rachel Barton Pine.  He's recorded in a small but reverbrant acoustic sounding a little like someone playing in his bathroom, and I wouldn't say sweetness of tone is his highest priority.  Despite all that I did enjoy the music (I nearly always do, regardless of who is playing) and the playing is certainly assured and highly accomplished.  He takes the Chaconne faster than most, with an unusual stabbing staccato bowing which diminishes it a little, I think.

Good, but wouldn't displace Pine for me if I was in the mood for this type of performance, or Ibragimova for something just a notch less severe and more to my taste.  As the man himself says at the end of his sleevenote "Looking back ... ... I would have played it differently."
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on April 17, 2018, 08:14:55 PM
I listened to the Boris Begelman set last week.  Issued in 2017.
The set is titled Sei Solo making much of the "you're on your own, pal" play on words at the head of the score.


Moscow-born but based in Italy, according to the sleevenote Begelman has been featured soloist with several of Italy's specialist baroque ensembles.  He plays a violin dating from the 1790s.

He's pretty far along the severe, zero vibrato end of the performance spectrum, hardcore, inhabiting the same sort of space as Ingrid Matthews or Rachel Barton Pine.  He's recorded in a small but reverbrant acoustic sounding a little like someone playing in his bathroom, and I wouldn't say sweetness of tone is his highest priority.  Despite all that I did enjoy the music (I nearly always do, regardless of who is playing) and the playing is certainly assured and highly accomplished.  He takes the Chaconne faster than most, with an unusual stabbing staccato bowing which diminishes it a little, I think.

Good, but wouldn't displace Pine for me if I was in the mood for this type of performance, or Ibragimova for something just a notch less severe and more to my taste.  As the man himself says at the end of his sleevenote "Looking back ... ... I would have played it differently."


Thanks for mentioning this. I had a listen to Begelman in 1004-6. I thought he does bring something to the game:  decisive, angular phrasing.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on April 18, 2018, 08:29:17 AM
Yes - certainly that.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on October 27, 2018, 02:11:19 AM
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81LXvuQ9GxL._SS500_.jpg)

This release adopts the less usual layout of 3 Sonatas, followed by 3 Partitas.  This makes it less convenient to listen to the sequence Ciaccona-Sonata 3 Adagio-Fuga - as suggested by Tetzlaff in his sleevenotes, and as I have often enjoyed doing since reading that.

So far I've only listened briefly to the first 2 movements of Sonata 2, I'm a great admirer of Carmignola's Vivaldi and also his Bach concertos, here he sounds less hard-core than I was expecting and less muscular too, quite a tender approach to the first movement but crisper in the Fuga.  Early days, I'll be listening some more over the weekend.

Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: JBS on October 27, 2018, 06:46:22 PM
(https://scontent.fsac1-2.fna.fbcdn.net/v/t1.0-9/41990922_10205113531875511_2776083379131514880_n.jpg?_nc_cat=0&oh=1de1c0ce76ab2f4ff023769fc40b5a93&oe=5C29DD60)

This release adopts the less usual layout of 3 Sonatas, followed by 3 Partitas.  This makes it less convenient to listen to the sequence Ciaccona-Sonata 3 Adagio-Fuga - as suggested by Tetzlaff in his sleevenotes, and as I have often enjoyed doing since reading that.

So far I've only listened briefly to the first 2 movements of Sonata 2, I'm a great admirer of Carmignola's Vivaldi and also his Bach concertos, here he sounds less hard-core than I was expecting and less muscular too, quite a tender approach to the first movement but crisper in the Fuga.  Early days, I'll be listening some more over the weekend.

My first recording of the S&Ps was Heifetz, which had the sonatas on one CD and the partitas on the other, so I have no problem with that arrangement. The sonatas are structured differently from the partitas, and grouping each together brings out some important things.

I do think the idea that Bach intended the Chaconne as the midpoint, the keystone of the arch, of a alternating S and P layout has much merit to it.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on October 28, 2018, 01:46:51 AM
Sure, it works either way and in any case I rarely want to listen to more than one Sonata or Partita.  In the score they alternate (though they are also all labelled 'Sonata' so that Sonata 2 as we know it is labelled Sonata 3 in the score, and so on).

Carmignola - on further listening he has grown on me, and the bottom line is, this has to be up there as one of the best recordings by a male violinist since Grumiaux (nearly 60 years ago now).

A couple of niggles first - the tagging on my downloaded FLAC copy (from Presto Classical) is awful, the 'Artist Name' tag is set to:
Giuliano Carmignola/Michael Seberich/Michael Seberich/Michael Seberich/Michael Seberich
so that on my portable player this spurious information scrolls back and forth continuously across the cover art, most annoying. Seberich by the way is the Producer. [edit: Producer/Engineer - he also engineered the highly-regarded Mullova recording.
Talking of the cover art, this was criticised by some over in the 'new releases' thread - well the bad news is the booklet contains several more cringeworthy photos from the same shoot, the photographer is credited as - Anna Carmignola.

Carmignola's instrument is only slightly less old than the music itself, and he extracts a beautiful rounded tone from it, well-recorded in a believable but maybe slightly too lively ambience.  The venue was the Gustav Mahler Saal in Toblach - not that I really believe the recorded ambience on this or any other modern recording is likely to be entirely natural.

He's not afraid to use light vibrato in the slower movements - notably the first movement of each Sonata - but also even in quicker passages such as the Borea Double that ends the 1st Partita.  Along with this he leans into his notes - reminding me of Rachel Podger - and personally I find this unattractive even though I'm all too aware that it is very common practice among baroque musicians and ensembles, and most people presumably like the effect.  whEn eVERy nOTe sOUNds lIke tHIs it gEts vEry wEAring.  This aside, the slow movements are generally beautiful, played with great sensitivity, but not without minor bowing fluffs which I presume have been left unedited to add 'character'.
The fugues are another matter entirely - crisp and articulate, and shorn of vibrato or any other mannerisms, they are played very convincingly.  The 2nd fugue in particular is played in a dance-like way, almost as a Courante, and this is as good as I've ever heard this piece played.  In the 3rd fugue he does sound a little stressed - for the only time throughout the set (as far as I've listened, not heard the 3rd Partita yet) there is a sense of struggle and some noticeable changes in timbre as the instrument moves around relative to the mics.
The 1st Partita with its dance movements brings us the familiar gutsy Carmignola of the Vivaldi concertos, very nicely done indeed.
Which brings me finally to the Ciaccona.  This is a most exraordinary performance, he seems to have complete mastery of the complexities and slithers through it all with a light and facile touch.  There is no sense of travail at all, he's as glib as a gypsy fiddler in a restaurant.

On balance, he joins my 'keepers' collection, having far more good than bad and a beautiful violin tone nicely recorded.  I'll edit the tagging and maybe re-order the tracks for my own personal use.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on October 28, 2018, 03:42:54 AM
I had a listen to the second partita, just because the above comment about gypsies made me curious,

What I will say is that it is very nuanced, dynamically and rhythmically, and yet I think it avoids being over studied or self consciousness. I’d say that it  exudes an impression of quientness and thoughtfulness. The rubato and other embellishments seem to fit very organically with the music, and I suspect someone who didn’t know other performances would hardly remark that his interventions are his.

He is especially impressive when the music implies several voices, he manages these voices with extraordinary calm control, creating very natural tensions.

I thought the sound was very good, almost holographic. You know, even if my living room wasn’t transformed into the hall, he was there in front of me making music. I was particularly impressed by the sound in the sarabande.

I think « glib » and « gypsy »are unwarranted, but it did get my attention!  I hope he’s as interesting to hear in the other pieces in the set.



Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on October 28, 2018, 03:41:02 PM
Well that remark was only concerning the Ciaccona specifically.  I'd say the set of 6 as a whole is a bit uneven, with more good than bad.  But that would be true of most 1st-rank musicians.
Overall I would probably rank this ahead of any other recording by a male violinist that I've heard, in the 21stC (and there have been a fair few good ones in the last 4 years alone).
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on October 29, 2018, 01:13:10 AM

Overall I would probably rank this ahead of any other recording by a male violinist that I've heard, in the 21stC (and there have been a fair few good ones in the last 4 years alone).

There are so many of these things, I find it impossible to remember them all. It probably helps if you play them yourself! This year alone there's this one and Gottfried von der Goltz and I'm sure other good ones I'm forgetting or never knew about.

I listened to the third sonata last night, by Carmignola: very enjoyable.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on October 29, 2018, 02:49:19 AM
Yes, so many. I listened to Gottfried von der Goltz when you mentioned him a while back, and found it very worthwhile.

Just since 2015, apart from Giuliano Carmignola and Gottfried von der Goltz, notable recordings include: Denes Zsigmondy, Pavel Šporcl, Christoph Schickedanz, Milan Pala, Boris Begelman, Christian Tetzlaff, Gunar Letzbor and there is also Conrad von der Goltz but I haven't sampled that one.  I would add to those Pavlo Beznosiuk (2011, re-issued in 2016) and a particular favourite of mine, Brian Brooks (2006).

And that's just the men - some notable recordings by females over the same period include: Rachel Barton Pine, Antje Weithaas, Keiko Urushihara, Mie Kobayashi, Michelle Ross, a re-issue of Johanna Martzy and a part-set (so far) by Etsuko Tsuchida. [edit to add - Hilary Hahn ]

Of these, Zsigmondy and Martzy are very old-skule, good on their own terms and not really comparable with the rest.  I would say Carmignola, Tetzlaff(3), Beznosuik, Brooks and Pine are all quite recommendable, with Letzbor and Pala both very interesting and unusual but not first-choice versions, and G.Goltz, Sporci, Begelman, Weithaas, Urushihara all well worth a listen.

Not forgetting those that did best in the blind comparison 3 years ago, recordings pre-dating 2015, the top 5 in order: Viktoria Mullova, Lucy van Dael, Arthur Grumiaux and Julia Fischer, Alina Ibragimova.  All very recommendable, goes without saying, and also quite a varied collection of styles.  And also not forgetting those that have consistently found favour earlier in this thread, such as Rachel Podger, Ingrid Matthews, Nathan Milstein.

Plenty of scope there to be really picky when choosing a go-to recording of the Sonatas & Partitas.  (I haven't even mentioned my own 1st choice, as she was an early faller in the blind comparison.  :( )  And yes, plenty of "other good ones I'm forgetting or never knew about".
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Traverso on October 29, 2018, 04:32:30 AM
Accardo

More than the so- called great recordings I favor  Salvatore Accardo ( non hip) .Sigiswald Kuijken is my first choice   (DHM first recording)

https://www.youtube.com/v/jOvBUaqYXkA



Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Marc on October 29, 2018, 05:12:09 AM
I haven't got that many recordings of these great works. I only know that I like Fernandez, Matthews (HIP), and Szeryng and Ughi (non-HIP) very much. But there is a lot to enjoy from other recordings, like Kuijken twice, Mullova, Podger, Milstein, Faust... et cetera. Let's just say that these works bring out the best of performers.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Que on October 29, 2018, 09:46:11 AM
I haven't got that many recordings of these great works. I only know that I like Fernandez, Matthews (HIP), and Szeryng and Ughi (non-HIP) very much. But there is a lot to enjoy from other recordings, like Kuijken twice, Mullova, Podger, Milstein, Faust... et cetera. Let's just say that these works bring out the best of performers.

Nice that you mention François Fernandez (https://fernandez-violons.com/francois), a relatively unknown recording issued on the tiny label Flora (http://www.labelflora.net/catalog).
On two separate CDs, judt to add to the attraction.... ::) Why anyone buys that hard to find, esoteric stuff, is beyond me!  :D

Anyway, after Milstein and Kuijken (I) his recordings are the most recent addition to my favourites.

Q

PS I fell out of love with Carmignola after his DIVOX and Erato years.... Not sure what exactly happened...
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: San Antone on October 29, 2018, 11:12:34 AM
Nice that you mention François Fernandez (https://fernandez-violons.com/francois), a relatively unknown recording issued on the tiny label Flora (http://www.labelflora.net/catalog).
On two separate CDs, judt to add to the attraction.... ::) Why anyone buys that hard to find, esoteric stuff, is beyond me!  :D

Anyway, after Milstein and Kuijken (I) his recordings are the most recent addition to my favourites.

Q

PS I fell out of love with Carmignola after his DIVOX and Erato years.... Not sure what exactly happened...

I was only able to purchase Vol. II of the François Fernandez recordings earlier this year.  Vol. I was OOP at the publishers with no reissue in the works, and I even contacted the artist directly, all to no avail.  Unfortunate, since based on Vol. II, this is a fine set.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Que on October 29, 2018, 12:00:00 PM
I was only able to purchase Vol. II of the François Fernandez recordings earlier this year.  Vol. I was OOP at the publishers with no reissue in the works, and I even contacted the artist directly, all to no avail.  Unfortunate, since based on Vol. II, this is a fine set.

I guess I was very lucky... when it was sold out anywhere else, I was still able to buy a copy from Flora directly.

Q
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on November 09, 2018, 01:55:07 PM
with Letzbor and Pala both very interesting and unusual but not first-choice versions,

I just listened to some of Pala for the first time. I know what makes Letzbor tick -- he took inspiration from Georg Muffat. Do you know if Milan Pala is a free spirit, or does he say anything about what led him to such an original way of playing the music?
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: bwv 1080 on November 09, 2018, 02:27:39 PM
does not get much better

https://www.youtube.com/v/Bheo4LGFODw

Although I saw Jason Vieaux perform BWV 1001 a couple of weeks ago, he is recording all the Violin partitas and sonatas which should be a great disk
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on November 10, 2018, 04:51:40 AM
I just listened to some of Pala for the first time. I know what makes Letzbor tick -- he took inspiration from Georg Muffat. Do you know if Milan Pala is a free spirit, or does he say anything about what led him to such an original way of playing the music?

He's possibly a Batagov-ish type, plays contemporary/ethnic music on a 5-string violin (extra low string to give a sort of combined violin/viola) - and plays Bach very slowly (and sometimes very quietly - I thought it was a recording fault when I first listened to it!).
His website was quite informative but seems a bit dysfunctional as I write:
http://www.milanpala.com/recordings (http://www.milanpala.com/recordings)

Plus - add to the list of new recordings I quoted a few posts upthread - Hilary Hahn.
Title: Ning Feng
Post by: Ras on November 12, 2018, 01:04:09 PM
The 2018 release by Ning Feng on Channel Records is also very good.
He plays a modernized strativarius, but it is good.

Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: North Star on November 12, 2018, 02:11:50 PM
This is certainly very different than what I have heard before. Bismuth speeds through the Chaconne in under 10 minutes, on a baroque violin.
https://www.youtube.com/v/TbyJZdEzJBU
Title: Re: No brickbats here: Best Bach violin partitas?
Post by: johnlewisgrant on November 14, 2018, 01:00:16 PM
I tend to favor Ingrid Matthews (baroque violin) on Centaur.

Ditto!
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: amw on November 14, 2018, 07:30:07 PM
I listened to the Boris Begelman set last week.  Issued in 2017.
The set is titled Sei Solo making much of the "you're on your own, pal" play on words at the head of the score.


Moscow-born but based in Italy, according to the sleevenote Begelman has been featured soloist with several of Italy's specialist baroque ensembles.  He plays a violin dating from the 1790s.

He's pretty far along the severe, zero vibrato end of the performance spectrum, hardcore, inhabiting the same sort of space as Ingrid Matthews or Rachel Barton Pine.  He's recorded in a small but reverbrant acoustic sounding a little like someone playing in his bathroom, and I wouldn't say sweetness of tone is his highest priority.  Despite all that I did enjoy the music (I nearly always do, regardless of who is playing) and the playing is certainly assured and highly accomplished.  He takes the Chaconne faster than most, with an unusual stabbing staccato bowing which diminishes it a little, I think.

Good, but wouldn't displace Pine for me if I was in the mood for this type of performance, or Ibragimova for something just a notch less severe and more to my taste.  As the man himself says at the end of his sleevenote "Looking back ... ... I would have played it differently."

I like Matthews as has already been established, so I ended up listening to Pine (who I'd never seriously considered before for some reason—I guess just not thinking of the Midwest as a place that produces good historically informed performances...) and I also like her, if maybe not as much. Still, thanks for the good word, I will look into more of her discography.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on February 21, 2019, 09:08:48 AM
I sampled the tracks on Amazon and was interested in what I heard, but will wait on purchasing.  There appears to be something of a trend in more recent Bach recordings which demonstrate slower, looser and, for lack of a better term, atypical interpretations of Bach: Anton Batagov, Wolfgang Rubsam, Viola de Hoog, Thomas Demenga (atypical in other ways), Gunar Letzbor.  And I've noticed that while I "love" them on first hearing over time they lose much of their attraction.

In your list, there's something very fundamental in common between Rubsam and Letzbor. They both believe that mainstream HIP is wrong about how to interpret the score. With Rubsam the error is about voicing, he has written about it on the website, along with Keith Hill and possibly Christoph Wolff too. With Letzbor it's to do with bowing, and in particular to do with the influence of Georg Muffat on JSB


Quote from: Gunnar Letzbor in an essay for the booklet of his solo Bach CDs
I am repeatedly astonished to see that many early music specialists, to the present day, stay well clear of Muffat. Is it not possible for us to assume that Bach’s dance music, strongly imitative of the French style as it is, was played according to the performance practice described by Muffat? But that would render impossible many things that are still heard everywhere! The special types of bowing and bow divisions make overly fast tempi impossible, for they strongly structure the melodies and give each figure an especially rhythmical character. The melos recedes into the background, allowing rhythmic components to appear. at the same time, the dance bowing is a help, allowing the formal structure inherent in the dances to emerge naturally.

One senses a certain initial irritation when playing dances in the manner described by Muffat for the first time. The results sound awkward, stiff and choppy; the feeling of bowing is as if one were about to lose the stick at any moment. a great deal of practice, patience and zest for experimentation is required in order to arrive at a satisfactory result . . .

Should one therefore play Bach’s solo suites with French bowing rules today? Let us approach the music in the way that a virtuoso of the Baroque period would have done! in his execution, a soloist surely showed consideration for the special characteristics of soloistic violin playing. the bowings are essential for playing together in the orchestra, but soloistic interpretation must be executed in a considerably more differentiated manner. Strict adherence to the rules would hinder an exciting interpretation, indeed render it almost impossible. This does not mean, however, that one can simply disregard all the rules. As a foundation, the rules continue to apply. They have arisen out of practical music-making and were developed by important violinists!

I like what Letzbor does, and I like what Rubsam does. I feel the opposite of you: I feel they grow in interest on repeated listening, rather than diminish.

I just want to echo this comment that I made last year, the bit in bold. Revisiting these performances now I like them even more.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on February 21, 2019, 09:35:40 AM
In your list, there's something very fundamental in common between Rubsam and Letzbor. They both believe that mainstream HIP is wrong about how to interpret the score. With Rubsam the error is about voicing, he has written about it on the website, along with Keith Hill and possibly Christoph Wolff too. With Letzbor it's to do with bowing, and in particular to do with the influence of Georg Muffat on JSB


I like what Letzbor does, and I like what Rubsam does. I feel the opposite of you: I feel they grow in interest on repeated listening, rather than diminish.


I just want to echo this comment that I made last year, the bit in bold. Revisiting these performances now I like them even more.

Feel generally the same. I like Rubsam's approach a lot, and the generally looser performance feel. In a very general way I find it similar to Harnoncourt's approach (in contrast to the Trevor Pinnock 'sewing machine' feel). Harnoncourt was freer with phrasing and wrote that, in contrast to modern practice, different instruments in an ensemble playing identical or similar melodic lines would use different phrasing and ornamentation to create a more colorful sound.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: San Antone on February 21, 2019, 10:41:58 AM
It's been months since I listened to Rubsam and should revisit his WTC.  Regarding Letzbor, it was his sound that began to bother me, but I should give him a re-listen as well.  These works are so good it almost doesn't matter who is playing them, IMO.

 8)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on February 22, 2019, 04:37:40 AM
The same regarding Letzbor.  He is certainly worth listening to and I have done so a few times since his introduction, but I do find the sound 'difficult' and after a couple of movements I usually turn to someone else - anyone else - with a sigh of relief.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on February 22, 2019, 04:40:24 AM
The same regarding Letzbor.  He is certainly worth listening to and I have done so a few times since his introduction, but I do find the sound 'difficult' and after a couple of movements I usually turn to someone else - anyone else - with a sigh of relief.

And the sound is supposed to be its strength! He'll be weeping if he reads that comment of yours.

Someone I know said it was more structured noise than music (I think music is structured noise myself.)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on February 23, 2019, 02:48:19 AM
I'm no musician but I suppose musicians must learn to love a very different - and more visceral - sound experience from their instruments compared with what we are used to.  The Letzbor recording I take to be more of a violinist's-ear view.  Nothing wrong with it technically of course.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: San Antone on February 23, 2019, 02:57:05 AM
The other thing about Letzbor's recordings is he split up the works: a recording of just the partitas and another recording of just the sonatas.  I like to hear them alternated, as is done by most violinists.  But in looking at Giuliano Carmignola's, they are not alternated (but at least they are all on one recording). 

I started listening to Letzbor's sonata record and the sound eventually got to me and I switched to Carmignola.  But I switched again to Monica Huggett, who alternates the sonatas and partitias.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on February 23, 2019, 03:34:31 AM
The other thing about Letzbor's recordings is he split up the works: a recording of just the partitas and another recording of just the sonatas

yes it would be interesting to know why he does that. They're in the usual order I think, but it seems that there are some manuscripts (Kellner) which put them in something more like Letzbor's order.  I just found this

https://www.jstor.org/stable/3126976?seq=1#page_scan_tab_contents
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: JBS on February 23, 2019, 08:00:58 PM
My first recording of the S&Ps was the one by Heifetz, with sonatas in CD1 and partitas on CD2.  So the idea is not very strange to me.
There is a certain sense to it since it allows one to focus on each of the types,  bringing the similarities and differences among the sonatas and among the partitas to the fore.

and of course if you prefer the alternating arrangement, you can program or rip/burn the sequence you prefer.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on February 24, 2019, 03:37:20 AM
Much as I love tbe music, I'm unlikely to listen to more than two of the suites in one session.  I also happen to generally prefer the Sonatas to the Partitas, so if I were buying physical media** I would welcome a 1-disc set of the Sonatas.  I also generally prefer the minor key to the major so a 1-disc set of S1P1S2 works for me too.  Assuming of course there's a price advantage to the single disc.  Obviously if the recording/performance turns out to really catch my fancy I'll add the rest.

** I don't actually have a CD player any more but if a (used) CD is the cheapest or only way to get hold of the music, then I'll buy it and rip it, I do still prefer that to streaming.

Talking of streaming, I greatly surprised myself this morning by listening to the Hilary Hahn recording of the 2nd sonata - quite splendid, especially the Andante which is just spellbinding.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on March 05, 2019, 10:40:33 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51qWR7kZQVL.jpg)

There's a sense of balance here, the structure of each movement is gently laid bare. He's almost innocent sounding, self effacing, and not forceful. The rhythm and phrasing is fluid -- I mean it transcends the the bar lines, but not in an ostentatious way. I like it very much.  Szeryng recorded the music twice I think, I think this is the first. 
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on April 23, 2019, 10:22:19 AM
Szeryng discography here

http://www.tanomura.com/music/szeryng/szeryng1.html
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Ghost of Baron Scarpia on April 23, 2019, 10:37:51 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51qWR7kZQVL.jpg)

There's a sense of balance here, the structure of each movement is gently laid bare. He's almost innocent sounding, self effacing, and not forceful. The rhythm and phrasing is fluid -- I mean it transcends the the bar lines, but not in an ostentatious way. I like it very much.  Szeryng recorded the music twice I think, I think this is the first.

I'm tempted to get that, until I think "can it possibly be better than his DG recording?" I always answer "no," to myself. Maybe I'm wrong.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on April 23, 2019, 11:24:18 AM
I'm tempted to get that, until I think "can it possibly be better than his DG recording?" I always answer "no," to myself. Maybe I'm wrong.

I was planning on exploring the different recordings. Maybe tomorrow .
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: hvbias on April 27, 2019, 06:14:16 AM
I listened to Szeryng play BWV1004 and 1005 on DG, the best way I could describe it is it was "dry" and I don't mean in relation to the recording quality. I wasn't really captivated by what I was hearing. This is my first time hearing him play them and I will give them another listen.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on April 27, 2019, 08:47:06 PM
I'm tempted to get that, until I think "can it possibly be better than his DG recording?" I always answer "no," to myself. Maybe I'm wrong.

I don’t think you’re wrong, the DG is very good indeed.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: André on April 28, 2019, 12:13:45 PM
I don’t think you’re wrong, the DG is very good indeed.

Absolutely. But I understand Staxomega’s impression. There is a hint of wiriness in the DGG Szeryng. I haven’t heard his first version though.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: T. D. on November 13, 2019, 02:25:11 PM
Newcomer, looking for a HIP recording of the S&P. Have recordings by Podger, Szeryng (DG) and Grumiaux.
Leaning to one of 2 recent releases: Carmignola (DG) or von der Goltz (Aparte). Know little about v d G, Carmignola is a musician I've meant to hear but never got around to. On the basis of brief sound clips, I enjoy v d G's "let the music speak for itself" approach, but get the impression I might prefer Carmignola's Chaconne in D minor (important factor for me).
Suggestions (these or others) welcome.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on November 13, 2019, 02:50:06 PM
Not a reply to above post!

(https://shop.new-art.nl/content/img/new_products/1569938298.jpg)

BWV1002 allemande. His way of bowing reminds me of Paolo Pandolfo, the music is very interestingly articulated. The sound is excellent. This is a taster on Spotify, I think the whole thing is set to be released on the 15th.

If this sample is representative, he has some new things to say.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on November 13, 2019, 02:52:19 PM
Newcomer, looking for a HIP recording of the S&P. Have recordings by Podger, Szeryng (DG) and Grumiaux.
Leaning to one of 2 recent releases: Carmignola (DG) or von der Goltz (Aparte). Know little about v d G, Carmignola is a musician I've meant to hear but never got around to. On the basis of brief sound clips, I enjoy v d G's "let the music speak for itself" approach, but get the impression I might prefer Carmignola's Chaconne in D minor (important factor for me).
Suggestions (these or others) welcome.

I thought both Carmignola and Goltz were excellent, but there are also excellent old ones. Maybe try to sample Sigiswald  Kuijken’s first recording and Lucy van Dael and John Holloway and Ryo Terakado and Ingrid Matthews?

Are you looking for extrovert or introvert performances?
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on November 14, 2019, 01:59:01 AM
Leaning to one of 2 recent releases: Carmignola (DG) or von der Goltz (Aparte). Know little about v d G, Carmignola is a musician I've meant to hear but never got around to. On the basis of brief sound clips, I enjoy v d G's "let the music speak for itself" approach, but get the impression I might prefer Carmignola's Chaconne in D minor (important factor for me).
Suggestions (these or others) welcome.

Carmignola surveyed at time of release a year ago on page 12 of this thread.  Specifially of his Chaconne I wrote (to cries of disapproval):
Which brings me finally to the Ciaccona.  This is a most extraordinary performance, he seems to have complete mastery of the complexities and slithers through it all with a light and facile touch.  There is no sense of travail at all, he's as glib as a gypsy fiddler in a restaurant.

I like Carmignola, but not as much as I like him in Vivaldi, and not as much as I like Ibragimova, Mullova, van Dael, or Brooks, in Bach.  Goltz is certainly up there as well.
Mullova was the runaway winner in our Blind Comparison (http://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,25338.0.html) (pre-dating Carmignola, or Goltz).
I'll keep an eye out for the new Zehetmair.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: T. D. on November 14, 2019, 07:12:40 AM
Thanks. Will have to do some more sampling.
Offhand I would have said I prefer extroverted performances, but I really enjoy the Goltz samples, and he seems on the introverted side.
I got the impression Holloway (physical CDs) is OOP and nearly impossible to find. I have a personal bias against Naxos  ??? , so van Dael didn't come into consideration. Isabelle Faust is another name that comes up.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on November 14, 2019, 08:30:53 AM
Van Dael is quite an old recording compared with all most of the others mentioned so far, and has been criticised for audible breathing noises by the musician. She's certainly full of humanity.  She is the polar opposite (within HIP bounds) of Faust, who is steely verging on icy.  I like them both.  Mullova has the middle ground here, which I find less interesting.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: T. D. on November 14, 2019, 09:11:59 PM
Van Dael is quite an old recording compared with all most of the others mentioned so far, and has been criticised for audible breathing noises by the musician. She's certainly full of humanity.  She is the polar opposite (within HIP bounds) of Faust, who is steely verging on icy.  I like them both.  Mullova has the middle ground here, which I find less interesting.

Thanks, I pretty much agree with your comments. Listened to some Van Dael and find her extremely impressive. Breathing noise doesn't bother me. If more of the Naxos recordings I heard were of this quality, I'd own more and have a higher opinion of the label! Also agree on Faust; enjoy her playing but wouldn't want it to be the only recording I own.
I like the "polar" approach and enjoy hearing "opposite" versions. Mullova's certainly good, but I'd gravitate to the poles. Still very high on Goltz's contemplative (IMO) approach but not sure it's objectively (whatever that means) better than the aforementioned.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on November 15, 2019, 01:23:43 AM
Not a reply to above post!

(https://shop.new-art.nl/content/img/new_products/1569938298.jpg)

BWV1002 allemande. His way of bowing reminds me of Paolo Pandolfo, the music is very interestingly articulated. The sound is excellent. This is a taster on Spotify, I think the whole thing is set to be released on the 15th.

If this sample is representative, he has some new things to say.



Quote
My first Baroque violin and bow experiences came when I was young and a member of the Concentus Musicus for several projects under the direction of Nikolaus Harnoncourr, sharing a desk with Alice Harnoncourt — a wonderful musician and a pioneer of the instrument. Back then, shortly before I recorded the sonatas and partitas for the first time, on an instrument with a modern set-up, he was ready right away to work on these pieces with me in derail. This is something I have never forgotten.

For the new recording I wanted to use every possible means of getting close to Bach and the sound and technique of his time. Dispensing with chin rest and shoulder rest, one gains an immediate proximity to the instrument that allows more and more timbral possibilities. The two instruments I have chosen for these recordings are, for the partitas. a particularly finely made violin by an unknown South Tyrolean master from around 1685, which a close friend has made available to me, and, for the sonatas, my own wonderfully preserved Joannes Udalricus Eberle of around 1750. These two instruments, together with the acoustics of the priory church of St. Gerold, provided me with a wide range of sound. The two Baroque bows for this recording, replicas of historical bows from around ino by Taman Muthesius and Gerhard Landwehr, could hardly be more different, in length, weight and sound formation.

 Thomas Zehetmair

Just listening to the prelude and fugue from 1005, it's a bit . . . dramatic . . . melodramatic.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on November 15, 2019, 08:52:13 AM
I got the impression Holloway (physical CDs) is OOP and nearly impossible to find.

That’s a shame, I just fled from the new Zehetmair 1005, which isn’t my sort of thing, listening to Holloway and I think it’s ideal.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Ras on November 16, 2019, 11:07:30 AM
I got the impression Holloway (physical CDs) is OOP and nearly impossible to find.

A good alternative to Holloway (which is out of print on cd) is Christine Busch on the Phi label. Like Holloway she plays Bach in a similar fashion with a "clean" approach compared to what I hear as a "rough" approach. Sigiswald Kuijken is also good, but his sound is very "rough". Christine Busch's recording happens to be my favorite.



There is also a period recording by Richard Tognetti which is similar in approach to Holloway and C. Busch. :



You may want to hear Amadine Beyer too.
(I'm not that crazy about it mysel but there are fans...)


Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Ras on November 16, 2019, 11:11:20 AM
T. D.

If you are desperate to get Holloway on CD somebody is selling a used one on amazon for 30 dollars:

https://www.amazon.com/gp/offer-listing/B000HWXS1O/ref=tmm_acd_used_olp_sr?ie=UTF8&condition=used&qid=1573931129&sr=8-1
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on December 15, 2019, 08:47:39 AM
Holloway's Bach on ECM can be streamed on Spotify, and presumably on other streaming services.

End-of-decade summary

In this round-up I'm concentrating on recordings from the last 30 years and not generally including the golden age fiddlers (Szeryng, Ricci, Haendel, Martzy etc) nor their young pretenders (Perlmann, Zukerman, Chung, Midori etc) and I for one will be grateful if someone else who is more attuned to these artists will come along and fill some gaps.
Also I'm excluding here any non-violin recordings (cello, keyboard etc) although some of these are very worthy of mention elsewhere in the thread.  I'm also not mentioning part-sets.

We did a blind comparison starting in late 2015 which included several of the most highly-regarded modern recordings up to that point.  We didn't get enough data points really, but even so the result seemed to me to chime fairly well with GMG preferences as expressed in this thread and others.  I'll re-state those results first and then go on to list several noteworthy recordings that have appeared since that date.  It won't be a complete survey - not anything like.  Again, I hope others can fill in some gaps.

Blind comparison results (2016)
24  Thomas Zehetmair **
22= Sigiswald Kuijken, Monica Huggett
21  Lara St John
19= Nathan Milstein (DG), Paolo Ghidoni
18  Richard Tognetti
17  Helene Schmitt
14= Amandine Beyer, Sirkka-Liisa Kaakinen-Pilch, Christian Tetzlaff (Hanssler)**
13  Gidon Kremer
12  Rachel Podger ( a definite blip in the results, Podger is generally much liked on GMG)
11  Christiane Edinger
6=  John Holloway, Isabelle Faust, Masayuki Kino, Ingrid Matthews, Christine Busch

Those marked ** - should not be confused with recent re-recordings by these artists.

That group on equal 6th is a fine pool of talent who were unlucky not to make it into the final.  These represent my benchmark for any newer releases to seem noteworthy.
Before going on to the five finalists, I'll mention a few recordings that I had lined up for the comparison but eventually ended on the cutting room floor - just putting these names out there so they aren't forgotten forever:
Jascha Heifetz, Ida Haendel, Oleg Kagan
Lara Lev, James Ehnes, Rudolf Gahler

The following attached comments are from the blind listening panel members at the time:
5   Alina Ibragimova (Hyperion)
"I like this pure, minimalistic reading."
3=  Julia Fischer (Pentatone)
"I am simply drawn in by this performer. ... Real drama here. Varied sound. Wonderful interpretive elements."
3=  Arthur Grumiaux (Philips)
"Energetic, dramatic, and even enigmatic at times!"
2   Lucy van Dael (Naxos) (this was a very clear 2nd place, ahead of all those listed above)
"Incredible Adagio: not just dramatic, but tragic, a sad tale told by an ancient looking back at something pivotal, something central, and sighingly sinking down into gloom."
"Back to old and almost-perfect ... I suspect some interesting musicianship behind this."



1   Viktoria Mullova (Onyx) (again this was a very clear 1st place, after 3 rounds of listening)
"This one grabbed my attention with its delicacy and subtlety in the Adagio which created an almost mystical atmosphere throughout."
"Finally a performer who makes me feel something. ... I like this performance a lot."
"This is a fine integrated and expressive performance"



Given the clear lead for Mullova (80%) over val Dael (74%) and the best of the rest (63%), along with other favourable impressions in this thread and elsewhere, if you had to choose a single version of the Sonatas & Partitas to take to your desert island five years ago, I think it would be difficult to justify choosing any other recording except this one.

Two other recordings that I'm very sorry weren't included in the comparison - one was just an oversight on my part, the other was released only weeks after the deadline for starting the comparison - I feel sure that either would have at least reached the level of the 'equal 6th' group:
Brian Brooks (Arts) (2006)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51CqqOT3HvL._.jpg)
I belatedly discovered this about 3 years ago and it has become a firm favourite with me.  Middle-of-the-road HIP (like Mullova) but a rather gruff, dare I say masculine approach, very agile and without much beauty of tone, quite unlike any of the top 5 listed above.

Rachel Barton Pine (Avie) (2016)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71BqozBivsL._AC_SL1200_.jpg)
This is severe, uncompromising, hard-core HIP, to my ears rather similar to Ingrid Matthews.  A contender for sure.

The release of Carmignola's very worthwhile set in 2018 lead to a brief survey of other recordings to appear in the interim between start 2016 and end 2018 and I'm here updating that to the present - this is not an exhaustive list, and I haven't sampled them all by any means, but most have had a mention somewhere before - I'm just putting these out there - in no particular order - brief comments attached to some of them but don't take my word for it:
Giuliano Carmignola (DG)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81LXvuQ9GxL._SS500_.jpg)
Keenly anticipated (by me at least), inevitably couldn't quite live up to those expectations.  Even so, a likely finalist I would think, possibly the best recording by a male violinist since Grumiaux.

Gottfried von der Goltz (Aparte)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61hjXdNLluL._SS500_.jpg)
Very worthwhile, has found some favour on GMG.  I find this a very literal-minded presentation of the music as laid out in the score, without much personality projected on it.  Equal 6th though for sure.

Pavel Šporcl (Supraphon)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71f7CbfdpeL._SS500_.jpg)

Christoph Schickedanz (Audite)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91nYjepOB-L._SS500_.jpg)

Milan Pala (Pavlik)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/A1EkLVfFHZL._SS500_.jpg)
Very interesting but not a 1st-choice contender.

Boris Begelman (DHM)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81QPxXfGWwL._AC_SX569_.jpg)
Interesting, good, but not quite outstanding.

Christian Tetzlaff (Ondine) (2017 - not to be confused with his earlier recording(s))
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/510-i3AFNCL._AC_.jpg)
I like this one.  With a sweet and rather feminine sound, he reminds me a bit of Fischer.   Equal 6th at least, strong competition for Carmignola.

Gunar Letzbor (Pan)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81URTqto7hL._SS500_.jpg)  (https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81lUC9RzfvL._SS500_.jpg)
Something of an outlier - very closely recorded, to be honest quite hard to listen to, but fascinating in small doses.  Would be a 'foil' for one of the sweeter renditions such as Fischer, Carmignola, Tetzlaff or Kuusisto - but not recommendable as an only recording.

Pavlo Beznosiuk (2011, re-issued in 2016 on the Linn label)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71axCfLWCbL._AC_SL1050_.jpg)

Michelle Ross (Albany)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91DxCOsX9gL._SS500_.jpg)

Keiko Urushihara (Nippon)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91ZykJnOUiL._SS500_.jpg)

Mie Kobayashi (Exton)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/918ff4a1kPL._SS500_.jpg)

Hilary Hahn (Decca and Sony - two part-sets widely separated in recording date)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/71opZ6YocKL._AC_SL1400_.jpg)  (https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/91qxkyQxCpL._AC_SL1500_.jpg)
What little I've listened to (the 2nd Sonata), I've enjoyed very much indeed.

Ning Feng (Channel)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71u5dYIbJtL._SS500_.jpg)

Jaakko Kuusisto (BIS)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/91-2lCIXU+L._SS500_.jpg)
If you want 'beautiful' check this one out.  Too rich for me but as a contrast to Letzbor, Pine or Matthews, it's very effective.  Could slip in as an equal-6th-er.

Mikhail Pochekin (Solo Musica)
(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81JXEkReRDL._SS500_.jpg)

Thomas Zehetmair (ECM) (2019 - not to be confused with his earlier recording)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81QLHZuJ9XL._AC_SL1400_.jpg)
A big improvement on his previous effort, but I still have a few reservations - reverbrant acoustic, more ornamentation than I personally like to hear - but there's a lot to like as well.  Not quite a contender for me, but others may disagree.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on December 15, 2019, 08:54:10 AM


Thomas Zehetmair (ECM) (2019 - not to be confused with his earlier recording)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81QLHZuJ9XL._AC_SL1400_.jpg)
A big improvement on his previous effort, but I still have a few reservations - reverbrant acoustic, more ornamentation than I persoanlly like to hear - but there's a lot to like as well.  Not quite a contender for me, but others may disagree.

Dislike it enormously.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: San Antone on December 15, 2019, 09:10:03 AM
Thomas Zehetmair (ECM) (2019 - not to be confused with his earlier recording)
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81QLHZuJ9XL._AC_SL1400_.jpg)
A big improvement on his previous effort, but I still have a few reservations - reverbrant acoustic, more ornamentation than I personally like to hear - but there's a lot to like as well.  Not quite a contender for me, but others may disagree.

Dislike it enormously.

Oh, I like it.   ;)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: André on December 15, 2019, 11:56:29 AM
I saw no mention of Benjamin Schmid in this thread. Is it a sign of the thumb down ?
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on December 15, 2019, 12:46:38 PM
I saw no mention of Benjamin Schmid in this thread. Is it a sign of the thumb down ?

(https://media3.giphy.com/media/J0JGp3rQ1YlEyDXZwF/giphy.gif?cid=790b76113604e288f7b87a0740e2ea6f286414e4a4dbffd0&rid=giphy.gif)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: André on December 15, 2019, 02:15:56 PM
Explain, please.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: hvbias on December 15, 2019, 02:39:17 PM
Holloway's Bach on ECM can be streamed on Spotify, and presumably on other streaming services.

End-of-decade summary

This may be a dumb question, which subforum was this blind test posted to? I'm quite fond of blind testing  ;D
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on December 16, 2019, 04:01:16 AM
Explain, please.

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81YOyErSJ%2BL._SL1388_.jpg)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: North Star on December 16, 2019, 05:19:15 AM
This may be a dumb question, which subforum was this blind test posted to? I'm quite fond of blind testing  ;D
https://www.good-music-guide.com/community/index.php/topic,25338.0.html

There have been a number of other blind comparisons over the years.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: André on December 16, 2019, 05:47:18 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81YOyErSJ%2BL._SL1388_.jpg)

That’s a different thing. This thread is about the sonatas and partitas, not by-products.

I was thinking of this:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51pKINQwPuL.jpg)

But you haven’t heard it, obviously.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on December 16, 2019, 07:22:54 AM
That’s a different thing. This thread is about the sonatas and partitas, not by-products.

I was thinking of this:

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51pKINQwPuL.jpg)

But you haven’t heard it, obviously.

The problem I have with that one is that it's not on Qobuz for streaming, so I have no way of hearing it apart from spotify, and I've learned to distrust the sound. Nevertheless I just listened to the fugue of 1005 and I can hear that he has some ideas about the structure of the music which are interesting.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: San Antone on December 17, 2019, 08:59:08 AM
Kristof Barati

(https://www.bach-cantatas.com/Pic-NonVocal-BIG/Barati-K-S03-2a[Brilliant-Classics-2CD].jpg)

Originally released in 2010 on Berlin classics, it has been reissued in 2013 by Brilliant at one-third the price.  I think they are worth hearing. His 1703 “Lady Harmsworth” Stradivarius sounds magnificent.  Highly praised in Fanfare by two different reviewers.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: André on December 17, 2019, 11:36:54 AM
Kristof Barati

(https://www.bach-cantatas.com/Pic-NonVocal-BIG/Barati-K-S03-2a[Brilliant-Classics-2CD].jpg)

Originally released in 2010 on Berlin classics, there have been reissued in 2013 by Brilliant at one-third the price.  I think they are worth hearing. His 1703 “Lady Harmsworth” Stradivarius sounds magnificent.  Highly praised in Fanfare by two different reviewers.

I will go for that one, his account of the Ysaÿe sonatas is absolutely mesmerizing.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: T. D. on December 17, 2019, 12:14:54 PM
Kristof Barati

(https://www.bach-cantatas.com/Pic-NonVocal-BIG/Barati-K-S03-2a[Brilliant-Classics-2CD].jpg)

Originally released in 2010 on Berlin classics, it has been reissued in 2013 by Brilliant at one-third the price.  I think they are worth hearing. His 1703 “Lady Harmsworth” Stradivarius sounds magnificent.  Highly praised in Fanfare by two different reviewers.

Thanks, looks promising. Oddly, the Gramophone online review (granted, a source whose recommendations I rarely consult) states that Barati uses "a modern instrumental set-up and bow". Ditto for Isabelle Faust, who uses a 1704 "Sleeping Beauty" Stradivarius.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: San Antone on December 17, 2019, 02:02:58 PM
Thanks, looks promising. Oddly, the Gramophone online review (granted, a source whose recommendations I rarely consult) states that Barati uses "a modern instrumental set-up and bow". Ditto for Isabelle Faust, who uses a 1704 "Sleeping Beauty" Stradivarius.

Yeah, well true HIP violinists use a Baroque bow (curved) with gut strings set up differently than a modern violin. I am not a purist and this recording, as with Faust's are perfectly fine according to my taste.  Sometimes the real PI recordings sound a bit harsh to me.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: T. D. on December 17, 2019, 02:18:43 PM
Thanks. Must be bow and/or strings. I'm easily confused, and the fine points of HIP sometimes baffle me.  :-[
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on December 18, 2019, 03:06:54 AM
Thanks for the additions folks, and keep 'em coming.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: milk on February 02, 2021, 04:17:30 AM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/51eXi4uGdDL._SY445_SX342_QL70_ML2_.jpg) any love for this ‘round these parts? This is Ivan Zenaty.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Old San Antone on February 08, 2021, 05:52:11 PM
I have just been listening to a new recording of the sonatas and partitas by Leila Schayegh.

(https://i5.walmartimages.com/asr/fadf766d-8989-4396-86db-71479b90b76b.bfe89b0533d4fd348ca14231d127a0ab.jpeg?odnWidth=612&odnHeight=612&odnBg=ffffff)

These are period performances, she uses a Baroque violin and bow, and as is usually the case Glossa produced an excellent recording.  I like her playing, there's some grit and flare. 

Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Selig on September 25, 2021, 04:06:52 PM
Any thoughts on the new one from Papavrami?

(https://storage.highresaudio.com/web/imgcache/13f4993f42f0b887e936b1a30f1d864d/3jehp3-bachsonata-preview-m3_550x550.jpg)

I intend to listen to the first one which he made 17 years ago. With the new recording he is attempting to create something more rhythmically complex, livelier, in his own words.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on September 28, 2021, 06:12:13 AM
Any thoughts on the new one from Papavrami?

(https://storage.highresaudio.com/web/imgcache/13f4993f42f0b887e936b1a30f1d864d/3jehp3-bachsonata-preview-m3_550x550.jpg)

I intend to listen to the first one which he made 17 years ago. With the new recording he is attempting to create something more rhythmically complex, livelier, in his own words.


I think this is an unusual recording which I intend to explore. It is the most austere performance of these pieces I can remember hearing. My first impression is --  and this may be unfair -- is that it is a needless and pointless exercise and the music gains nothing by his approach, but loses its expressiveness, its affect.  I hope to find the positives later.


Deleted, in a manner of speaking, because more close listening reveals interesting things going on a least some of the time. Not completely deleted because I want signal that this is an interesting if ultimately unsatisfactory recording in a field crowded with excellent but no.pt very interesting performances.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Spotted Horses on September 28, 2021, 06:40:51 AM
I owned Kremer, and seem to have lost it!

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81ts1wJis0L._SL700_.jpg)

Debating whether to get it again, but that makes me feel stupid. :(
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on September 28, 2021, 10:44:27 AM

I think this is an unusual recording which I intend to explore. It is the most austere performance of these pieces I can remember hearing. My first impression is --  and this may be unfair -- is that it is a needless and pointless exercise and the music gains nothing by his approach, but loses its expressiveness, its affect.  I hope to find the positives later.


Deleted, in a manner of speaking, because more close listening reveals interesting things going on a least some of the time. Not completely deleted because I want signal that this is an interesting if ultimately unsatisfactory recording in a field crowded with excellent but no.pt very interesting performances.

Excuse me saying hmm... again. Thinking it over I shall pass it by (own too many recordings of these works already), unless you conclude, that it is mandatory.

BTW how does it compare to Ryo Terakado's recording?

Afterthought: I suppose Papavrami is playing a modern instrument?
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on September 28, 2021, 10:48:27 AM
I owned Kremer, and seem to have lost it!

(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81ts1wJis0L._SL700_.jpg)

Debating whether to get it again, but that makes me feel stupid. :(

Honestly, you may use the occation to replace it by some better recording and feel clever instead.  :)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on September 28, 2021, 11:32:39 AM

BTW how does it compare to Ryo Terakado's recording?


Well, I'm not going to answer that.

Here's the booklet, it'll give you an idea of what's going on

https://static.qobuz.com/goodies/22/000142522.pdf

Quote
’. To achieve expression, he has evidently chosen to confine himself to phrasing and sound.
He does this partly with miniscule gradations in the lengths of the notes, in their articulation and their
breathing, whether ephemeral or emphatic, so the musical discourse can be followed in the same
way as a text spoken by a great actor able to make even the densest discourse transparently clear.

In fact that approach to expressiveness seems to be there sometimes, but not all the time. But I've only listened to 1002 and 1003 -- and probably not carefully.

(Yes modern instrument)

Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on September 28, 2021, 11:38:20 AM
https://www.youtube.com/v/aZmhvWuvBao&ab_channel=AlphaClassics

he wants to be playful, rhythmically complex, have a scintillating sound . . . 
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Spotted Horses on September 28, 2021, 11:59:24 AM
Honestly, you may use the occation to replace it by some better recording and feel clever instead.  :)

When I listen to the excepts it seems very good to me. :) A bit iconoclastic.

I already have quite a few sets. Grumiaux, Szeryng, Millstein (2), Podger, Wallfisch, Hugget, Zehetmair, Kagan, Ibragimova, Fischer, Beyer, Heifitz, Mullova, Sitkovetsky. What would be better?
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on September 28, 2021, 12:02:38 PM
Well, I'm not going to answer that.

Here's the booklet, it'll give you an idea of what's going on

https://static.qobuz.com/goodies/22/000142522.pdf

In fact that approach to expressiveness seems to be there sometimes, but not all the time. But I've only listened to 1002 and 1003 -- and probably not carefully.

(Yes modern instrument)

Thanks for your preliminary review. It sounds as if his approach to some extent is HIP influenced in the vein of Leonhardt/Harnoncourt. I shall listen to some clips and then decide whether to get it or not.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on September 28, 2021, 12:17:41 PM
When I listen to the excepts it seems very good to me. :) A bit iconoclastic.

I already have quite a few sets. Grumiaux, Szeryng, Millstein (2), Podger, Wallfisch, Hugget, Zehetmair, Kagan, Ibragimova, Fischer, Beyer, Heifitz, Mullova, Sitkovetsky. What would be better?

I didn't know you had that many, at least five of my favorites among them. So you have probably no need for a repurchase of Kremer, unless you find him exceptional.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Spotted Horses on September 28, 2021, 12:31:51 PM
I didn't know you had that many, at least five of my favorites among them. So you have probably no need for a repurchase of Kremer, unless you find him exceptional.

Curious, which do you consider favorites. (A few of them I have not managed to listen to yet.) I'd probably say Grumiaux, Szeryng, Fischer, Beyer, Podger. But some I haven't listened to in so long I might not recognize them.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Mandryka on September 28, 2021, 12:49:00 PM
Thanks for your preliminary review. It sounds as if his approach to some extent is HIP influenced in the vein of Leonhardt/Harnoncourt. I shall listen to some clips and then decide whether to get it or not.

I much prefer Terakado! Who is more . . . soulful, natural, and his violin sounds more beautiful to me.

(Damn, I said I wasn’t going to compare them . . .)
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on September 28, 2021, 01:50:55 PM
Curious, which do you consider favorites. (A few of them I have not managed to listen to yet.) I'd probably say Grumiaux, Szeryng, Fischer, Beyer, Podger. But some I haven't listened to in so long I might not recognize them.

From your collection I would say Szeryng(DG), Fischer, Podger, Wallfisch and Mullova.

Other favorites are Christian Tetzlaff (particularly his first recording), Karl Suske (heavily underrated), Christine Busch, Ryo Terakado, Sigiswald Kuijken (both recordings), Ingrid Matthews, Francois Fernandez, Lucy van Dael, John Holloway, Brian Brooks, Susanne Lautenbacher (second recording for Vox), Salvatore Accardo (both recordings),  and probably a few more, which I haven't listened to since long and don't recall without consulting my shelves. I also own a few, which I haven't listened to yet: Gottfried von der Goltz and Stanley Ritchie among them. I have heard most of the period instrument recordings, but probably only about one third of the non-period instrument recordings. Generally I'm a bit exausted as to my S&P listening and prefer to listen to the cello suites instead.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on September 28, 2021, 01:58:53 PM
I much prefer Terakado! Who is more . . . soulful, natural, and his violin sounds more beautiful to me.

(Damn, I said I wasn’t going to compare them . . .)

Spot on, beautiful and natural. I only rarely gets tears in my eyes when listening to music, but Terakado's b-minor sarabande tends to make me react in this way as does Tetzlaff's courante from the same suite. A propos affects and tonality, in this work I hear no desperation, but rather resignation - an affect which resonates strongly in my mind.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on September 28, 2021, 11:18:12 PM
(https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/81ts1wJis0L._SL700_.jpg)

That Gidon Kremer must be a 2nd recording - he had an earlier release on Philips:

(http://images.amazon.com/images/P/B0000040YB.01.L.jpg)

Of those recently-mentioned, I especially like (in no particular order) Ibragimova, Beyer, van Dael, Brooks.  And would add Carmignola and Kaakinen-Pilch.

I must seek out Terakado.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on September 29, 2021, 01:37:10 AM
Of those recently-mentioned, I especially like (in no particular order) Ibragimova, Beyer, van Dael, Brooks.  And would add Carmignola and Kaakinen-Pilch.

I must seek out Terakado.

Interesting how tastes differ. I have owned a dozen more recordings, which I have culled: Kaakinen-Pilch, Beyer, Ibragimova, Beznosiuk, Suk, Perlman, Grumiaux, Milstein (both recordings), Ida Haendel, Ricci and Rosand.

But Terakado I have always treasured.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: Spotted Horses on September 29, 2021, 04:53:22 AM
But Terakado I have always treasured.

Terakado is an old Denon recording? (Not easy to find.) The Tetzlaff you like best is the Virgin recording? (There seem to be three, Virgin (now called Erato) Hanssler and Ondine.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: (: premont :) on September 29, 2021, 09:24:31 AM
Terakado is an old Denon recording? (Not easy to find.) The Tetzlaff you like best is the Virgin recording? (There seem to be three, Virgin (now called Erato) Hanssler and Ondine.

Yes to both questions.

I own all three Tetzlaff recordings. Find the Virgin (Erato) to be the most beautiful and moving of these and being in the same league as Terakado's recording.
Title: Re: Bach's Violin Sonatas & Partitas (solo)
Post by: aukhawk on December 23, 2021, 07:57:13 AM
I've been enjoying the recordings by Antje Weithaas, which are new to me (issued 2014 to 2017).

She's not extreme in any way, and although I usually don't go much for middle-of-the-road performers, here she really hits a sweet spot.  Avoiding vibrato most of the time, but she's not averse to lapsing into a light, airy vibrato on occasion.  I seem to hear the occasional bowing mini-fluff, but obviously it was not felt necessary to re-take to cover these, and I approve.   She seems particularly at home in the Ciaccona which is not always my favourite piece of music, but here she carries it off with ease and considerable variety of touch.
The instrument (modern build) sounds gorgeous and is immaculately recorded in a generous acoustic.

I doubt if she'll win many friends by spreading the Bach over 3 discs and interleaving some music by Ysaÿe.  The juxtaposition doesn't sound particularly apposite to me.

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/71DHYFKNF9L._SS500_.jpg)
Bach Sonata 1 & Partita 2, plus two Sonatas by Ysaÿe - Antje Weithaas

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/81PkoHOwEkL._SS500_.jpg)
Bach Sonata 2 & Partita 3, plus two Sonatas by Ysaÿe - Antje Weithaas

(https://m.media-amazon.com/images/I/61WDlJxc37L._SS500_.jpg)
Bach Sonata 3 & Partita 1, plus Sonata 6 in E by Ysaÿe - Antje Weithaas