The unimportant news thread

[BWV 1080]

Not to bring up Ukraine again, but could not happen to a nicer guy

Putin's attack dog right-hand man 'critically ill in coma' after mystery illness:

https://www.express.co.uk/news/world/1813435/putin-attack-dog-Ramzan-Kadyrov-coma

[AnotherSpin]

Around 30 thousands Hasidic pilgrims arrived to Uman, Ukraine to celebrate Jewish New Year.

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-hasidic-jews-pilgrimage/32594845.html

[Pohjolas Daughter]

Around 30 thousands Hasidic pilgrims arrived to Uman, Ukraine to celebrate Jewish New Year.

https://www.rferl.org/a/ukraine-hasidic-jews-pilgrimage/32594845.html

Apparently their religious founder was born there.  I read a little bit about that yesterday.  It sounds like it's mostly men and their children who traveled there.

PD

[AnotherSpin]

Apparently their religious founder was born there.  I read a little bit about that yesterday.  It sounds like it's mostly men and their children who traveled there.

PD

That's right, some very important religious person was born near Uman. Uman is in central Ukraine, historically within the so-called sedentary line - in Tsarist times, Jews could only live in specially permitted parts. My father's family came from those area too, from a village a few dozen kilometres from Uman. I remember well how my grandmother, a Ukrainian peasant woman, used some Yiddish words. Uman is also famous for the huge Sofia Park, a monument of landscape gardening and park art of the late 18th century, which belonged to the Polish Potocki aristocrats family.

[JBS]

Rabbi Nachman ben Simcha lived the last year of his life, and was buried, in Uman. He's usually known as the Breslover Rebbe, and his Tales are his best known writings for the general public: fairy tale/folk tale style stories heavily embedded with Kabbalistic symbolism and meaning.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nachman_of_Breslov

In English, the "sedentary line" @AnotherSpin referred to is known as the Pale of Settlement.

[AnotherSpin]

Thank you, didn't know which English expression is used for this.

I checked the info, Rabbi Nachman was born in Medzhybizh, it is about 250 km  west of Uman, and lived in Bratslav, about 100 km west of Uman. Pretty small area. Although, he did some travels, also to what is Israel now.

It's probably hard to imagine from the outside, but getting to Uman nowadays is quite difficult, and time-consuming. There were no flights to Ukraine since the beginning of the war. I read that pilgrims from Israel took charter flights to Chisinau, Moldova, and from there buses and taxis. Probably many travelled from Poland.

There were no air raids in south Ukraine last night. It's probably not just a coincidence.

[JBS]

Thank you, didn't know which English expression is used for this.

I checked the info, Rabbi Nachman was born in Medzhybizh, it is about 250 km  west of Uman, and lived in Bratslav, about 100 km west of Uman. Pretty small area. Although, he did some travels, also to what is Israel now.

It's probably hard to imagine from the outside, but getting to Uman nowadays is quite difficult, and time-consuming. There were no flights to Ukraine since the beginning of the war. I read that pilgrims from Israel took charter flights to Chisinau, Moldova, and from there buses and taxis. Probably many travelled from Poland.

There were no air raids in south Ukraine last night. It's probably not just a coincidence.

Netanyahu caused a small furor in Israel by saying people going to Uman at this time can't depend on God protecting them. He was trying to discourage the pilgrimage during war. As I understand it, the Ukrainian government shares that attitude.

The pilgrimage has been controversial for a while--even before the war. Apparently a lot of the pilgrims use it as an excuse for drugs, prostitution, and a bunch of other stuff not usually associated with religious pilrimages.

My father's parents were born near Chisinau, married at 18 (arranged marriage, definitely not a love match!). My grandfather left soon after for the USA, but was stranded in Paris when WWI started*, and only got to America after the War. He brought my grandmother over from Moldava in the 1920s.

My mother's parents were from--somewhere in what is now Belarus or Ukraine or Russia. That side of the family was less interested in family history, so the details are vague. They both came to the USA as teenagers, met here, and were married, each roughly 20 years old, in 1911; they chose July 4th as the date.

*there were obviously worse places to be stranded in during WWI

[AnotherSpin]

Netanyahu caused a small furor in Israel by saying people going to Uman at this time can't depend on God protecting them. He was trying to discourage the pilgrimage during war. As I understand it, the Ukrainian government shares that attitude.

The pilgrimage has been controversial for a while--even before the war. Apparently a lot of the pilgrims use it as an excuse for drugs, prostitution, and a bunch of other stuff not usually associated with religious pilrimages.

My father's parents were born near Chisinau, married at 18 (arranged marriage, definitely not a love match!). My grandfather left soon after for the USA, but was stranded in Paris when WWI started*, and only got to America after the War. He brought my grandmother over from Moldava in the 1920s.

My mother's parents were from--somewhere in what is now Belarus or Ukraine or Russia. That side of the family was less interested in family history, so the details are vague. They both came to the USA as teenagers, met here, and were married, each roughly 20 years old, in 1911; they chose July 4th as the date.

*there were obviously worse places to be stranded in during WWI

Did God ask Netanyahu to pass this message to the pilgrims? Why didn't he tell them himself? I read about all sorts of excesses that happen every year in Uman. I think people are so organised, where they are there are accidents, and the bigger the gathering, the greater the risk. As for me I like such festivals. Saw some in India, when millions of people gather to celebrate their faith.

[Pohjolas Daughter]

@AnotherSpin and @JBS

Thank you for the information!  And it's nice hearing about your families too.

PD

[BWV 1080]

Hard to imagine that any Ukrainian Jews survived the war, but obviously many did

Although I bet their descendants are now outnumbered by those of earlier immigrants

[AnotherSpin]

Hard to imagine that any Ukrainian Jews survived the war, but obviously many did

Although I bet their descendants are now outnumbered by those of earlier immigrants

Most survived. There were a lot of Jews living in my city, Odessa, after the war. In my primary school more than half of the kids in my class were from Jewish families. From the beginning of the 70s mass emigration to Israel, US, Germany, etc. began and within two or three decades almost all of them left. Before the current war, according to official statistics, about 3 per cent of the population in Odessa was Jewish.

[BWV 1080]

Most survived. There were a lot of Jews living in my city, Odessa, after the war. In my primary school more than half of the kids in my class were from Jewish families. From the beginning of the 70s mass emigration to Israel, US, Germany, etc. began and within two or three decades almost all of them left. Before the current war, according to official statistics, about 3 per cent of the population in Odessa was Jewish.

Not most - the prewar pop was about 1.5M which increased after the annexation of Poland to about 2.5M and ~1.5M were killed by the Nazis

[AnotherSpin]

Not most - the prewar pop was about 1.5M which increased after the annexation of Poland to about 2.5M and ~1.5M were killed by the Nazis

I speak of what I know from personal experience of my life in Odessa. I never made calculations, but in the 70s and to a slightly lesser extent in the 80s I lived in a predominantly Jewish environment. Му friends, school teachers, doctors, artists, musicians, etc. They couldn't have come from nowhere, it seems to me.

On the other hand, for a number of historical reasons, Odessa has never been a typical Ukrainian or Soviet city.

[JBS]

It's my understanding that Ukraine's Jewish population in the 50s-80s included a large number of Jews who moved there from other parts of the USSR for career or other similar reasons at various times after 1945.

[BWV 1080]

I speak of what I know from personal experience of my life in Odessa. I never made calculations, but in the 70s and to a slightly lesser extent in the 80s I lived in a predominantly Jewish environment. Му friends, school teachers, doctors, artists, musicians, etc. They couldn't have come from nowhere, it seems to me.

On the other hand, for a number of historical reasons, Odessa has never been a typical Ukrainian or Soviet city.

The Romanian army (not the Germans) killed most of the population of Odessa that did not flee.

https://encyclopedia.ushmm.org/content/en/article/odessa

[JBS]

Wikipedia presents a slightly different picture: Odessa after being captured by the Germans was placed under Romanian administration. At first the Romanians co-operated in massacres and deportation to the death camps (the article refers to German participation in the massacres), but once the Germans started losing on the Eastern Front, they stopped that and kept the Jews locally for forced labor. As a result, Odessa's Jews had a higher percentage of survivors compared to Ukraine in general.

ETA
Reading the USHMM article, it seems the Wikipedia presentation presents the Romanians more favorably. Main difference in presentation of facts is that it doesn't mention the deportations to Transnistria or the 1943 massacres.

[AnotherSpin]

It's my understanding that Ukraine's Jewish population in the 50s-80s included a large number of Jews who moved there from other parts of the USSR for career or other similar reasons at various times after 1945.

Also opposite. Many Jews left Odessa for Moscow, for careers. Gilels, Oistrach for example. And many others.

[BWV 1080]

Wikipedia presents a slightly different picture: Odessa after being captured by the Germans was placed under Romanian administration. At first the Romanians co-operated in massacres and deportation to the death camps (the article refers to German participation in the massacres), but once the Germans started losing on the Eastern Front, they stopped that and kept the Jews locally for forced labor. As a result, Odessa's Jews had a higher percentage of survivors compared to Ukraine in general.

ETA
Reading the USHMM article, it seems the Wikipedia presentation presents the Romanians more favorably. Main difference in presentation of facts is that it doesn't mention the deportations to Transnistria or the 1943 massacres.

Germany's other allies were mostly not enthusiastic participants in the Holocaust - but the Romanians were, having launched brutal pogroms on their own initiative.  Also death camps were not a factor until 1943, most of the victims in the USSR were killed in the 'Holocaust of Bullets'

[Todd]

From the University of Michigan: Wildfires, farming activities may be top sources of air pollution linked to increased risk of dementia

[Spotted Horses]

From the BBC web site:



https://www.bbc.com/news/science-environment-66724246

This is fine.